Pressure Point Controvsery

[Monkey Turned Wolf]

Yes but it does seem to make the lower extremities weaker. This is where they have been told to attack. Mind you if you want to disable someone, dislocation of a knee will do it.

It doesn't make any part of the body weaker, and all parts of the body have the same level of numbness, depending on your body, how much you take, how quick, blah blah blah...
It's possible that actually disabling someone through the legs may be more effective, but I don't know of any actual research on that. Regarding dislocating a knee, on most people that will work. On someone who is high on PCP, that's not necessarily the case. The lack of pain means you can dislocate their knee, break their bone, whatever, and they (may) just keep coming at you. Afterwards, though, they'll regret it. Telling someone that attacking there knee will make them disabled is very dangerous, my advice (unless you're a LEO) would be: "You know someone is on PCP and attacking you? Run."

Incidentally, from what I have heard the same thing can happen with crack/cocaine, depending on the individual in question and how they react to it.

 

[Tez3]

It's not weaker. PCP doesn't make you stronger or weaker.....just makes numb to all pain.

Sounds like Poitín (Irish moonshine).

 

[CB Jones]

Sounds like Poitín (Irish moonshine).

Maybe just a tad bit stronger than Poitin.

 

[CB Jones]

Sounds like Poitín (Irish moonshine).

I am intrigued with the Irish moonshine...what is it made from? Corn like American moonshine?

 

[JR 137]

It doesn't make any part of the body weaker, and all parts of the body have the same level of numbness, depending on your body, how much you take, how quick, blah blah blah...
It's possible that actually disabling someone through the legs may be more effective, but I don't know of any actual research on that. Regarding dislocating a knee, on most people that will work. On someone who is high on PCP, that's not necessarily the case. The lack of pain means you can dislocate their knee, break their bone, whatever, and they (may) just keep coming at you. Afterwards, though, they'll regret it. Telling someone that attacking there knee will make them disabled is very dangerous, my advice (unless you're a LEO) would be: "You know someone is on PCP and attacking you? Run."

Incidentally, from what I have heard the same thing can happen with crack/cocaine, depending on the individual in question and how they react to it.

I have no experience with people on PCP, so use a grain of salt here...

I’ve seen several actual knee dislocations (I’m not talking about the knee cap aka patella, but actual knee) and tibia fractures (the shin actually snapping). There’s no way anyone is going to bear weight on that, even if they’re completely numb. That’s not a pain resistance thing, that’s an anatomy and physics thing.

If they’re completely numb they may be able to hop on the other leg, but that’s about it.

 

[Martial D]

Mind you if you want to disable someone, dislocation of a knee will do it.

Well sure, but that is much easier said than done. In fact, I've yet to see it done, ever.

 

[Dirty Dog]

I have no experience with people on PCP, so use a grain of salt here...

I do. Not as a user, of course, but I've had to subdue and treat people who were on PCP.
It has no affect on strength. It does make it possible to ignore pain that would otherwise be debilitating.

I’ve seen several actual knee dislocations (I’m not talking about the knee cap aka patella, but actual knee) and tibia fractures (the shin actually snapping). There’s no way anyone is going to bear weight on that, even if they’re completely numb. That’s not a pain resistance thing, that’s an anatomy and physics thing.

And yet, I've had more than one person walk into my ED with tibial fractures, without needing to be on drugs. There are fractures and there are fractures. It's generally a mistake to make such broad sweeping generalizations.

Patellar dislocations are the most common knee dislocation, but any knee dislocation is pretty much the easiest dislocation to reduce, and in my experience the most likely to spontaneously reduce, since reduction is basically pulling the leg straight. Unlike other joints, there's little chance of things getting hung up on each other. Shoulders and hips are much more difficult to reduce. Even fingers are more difficult.

 

[jobo]

I am intrigued with the Irish moonshine...what is it made from? Corn like American moonshine?

no they don't have much corn in Ireland, they do have a lot of potatoes though

 

[TigerHeart]

 

[Tarrycat]

as above, having someone dig their thumb hard into a pressure point can be some what unpleasant, its not going to incapacitate an opponent, hitting a point on the upper thigh , which I've had a few dozen times whole. Playing football, or a point on the upper arm, which bouncers love to squeeze, can give you a,dead limb, which slows you down for a short while, it disrupt the cns and has some measurable effect, on mobility

if there are other more deadly points, no one has ever hit me there, so its hard to tell, possibly the op will enlighten us?

I was thinking the same thing - it may disrupt the other person's advances for a moment or so, but I doubt that it will cut them down entirely. Unless of course, I could turn myself into Hulk.

I read a bit further along the thread that you can knock out someone by going for the temple & a specific area behind the head. Interesting...

 

[Dirty Dog]

Pressure points can be used effectively, certainly. But they're not game changers, nor are they magical. And you better have alternatives. Because pretty much everybody has some points that work and some that do not.
In my case, the pressure points just below the elbow don't do anything. There is a knockout target in the side of the neck, but I have one student who is immune (the one at the base of the skull works amazingly well on her, though). And so on.
Most pressure points are small, and the impact must be applied in a very specific way if it's going to work. That means many people (and virtually all new students) will not have enough precision to effectively use them. It also means they're difficult to use when both parties are moving, as they are in a fight.

 

[CB Jones]

Pressure points can be used effectively, certainly. But they're not game changers, nor are they magical. And you better have alternatives. Because pretty much everybody has some points that work and some that do not.
In my case, the pressure points just below the elbow don't do anything. There is a knockout target in the side of the neck, but I have one student who is immune (the one at the base of the skull works amazingly well on her, though). And so on.
Most pressure points are small, and the impact must be applied in a very specific way if it's going to work. That means many people (and virtually all new students) will not have enough precision to effectively use them. It also means they're difficult to use when both parties are moving, as they are in a fight.

Picturing you torturing your students seeing what points work and what do not.

 

[Tarrycat]

Some do, and reliably (depending what we call a "pressure point" - the OP hasn't given us much about his definition, so he and I might use different definitions of them). A brachial stun is arguably a pressure point strike. There's a blood pressure sensor in a corotid sinus (I think I'm getting the terminology right) that has a small but predictable useful effect (larger on me, because I have low BP). That one is hard to hit, but not a super-high-precision target - within about an inch diameter. Most of the pain ones are relatively easy to get to, but their usefulness falls off under adrenal load. There are some others - one in the shoulder knotch, for instance - that temporarily disrupt muscle response (and hurt). That one is also not high-precision, but I'm not sure how much adrenal load affects it, and I think heavy musculature in the area would make it very hard to hit (converting it to a high-precision target).

What an interesting response, thank you so much!

Yes, I thought that, given a high level of adrenaline, some of these pressure point techniques would be more complex to apply. I don't think I'd have the opportunity to THINK where to strike if I were being attacked. I would probably just go with the basics (muscle memory - & then those hits will probably not even be accurate either).

The shoulder knotch caught my attention . I'll be sure to mention it in class tomorrow. Perhaps we can experiment with it a bit.


Thanks again. I appreciate it*

 

[Dirty Dog]

Picturing you torturing your students seeing what points work and what do not.

LOL
My wife (she is one of our 1st Dans) and I have been known to spar in the yard. I've always maintained that as one of her teachers, my defense when the police are called will be "it's not domestic violence, it's part of her training!"

But seriously, it's just like punching, kicking, or grappling. It's not possible to learn without practicing. And that means both using the techniques and having them used on you.

 

[Tez3]

I am intrigued with the Irish moonshine...what is it made from? Corn like American moonshine?

The original stuff used was malted barley, the posh stuff still is but the poor people used treacle, corn and potatoes. it's basically whiskey. We used to come across people who still made it illegally when we were in Northern Ireland. As it wasn't what we were looking for we never bothered with it.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

And yet, I've had more than one person walk into my ED with tibial fractures, without needing to be on drugs. There are fractures and there are fractures. It's generally a mistake to make such broad sweeping generalizations.

I walked on a tibial fracture for two weeks before it was diagnosed properly.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

Picturing you torturing your students seeing what points work and what do not.

Have you been watching my classes through the window again, CB?

 

[drop bear]

I have a question for the teachers &/or more experienced individuals: Do pressure points work in real fights?

Why I ask, is because of it's articulate nature. If you miss a pressure point by a millimeter or even less, then its usefulness erodes.

Is it not difficult to apply them when you are under pressure?

Depends on the point. Liver and jaw work pretty well.

 

[JR 137]

I do. Not as a user, of course, but I've had to subdue and treat people who were on PCP.
It has no affect on strength. It does make it possible to ignore pain that would otherwise be debilitating.



And yet, I've had more than one person walk into my ED with tibial fractures, without needing to be on drugs. There are fractures and there are fractures. It's generally a mistake to make such broad sweeping generalizations.

Patellar dislocations are the most common knee dislocation, but any knee dislocation is pretty much the easiest dislocation to reduce, and in my experience the most likely to spontaneously reduce, since reduction is basically pulling the leg straight. Unlike other joints, there's little chance of things getting hung up on each other. Shoulders and hips are much more difficult to reduce. Even fingers are more difficult.

I was taught the popliteal artery is a major concern in knee dislocations and as such. Does it rupture frequently? I’ve always Air splinted, monitored pedal pulse and called an ambulance whenever I had them occur. I had 3 reduce themselves, and the other 5 didn’t, as they were pretty far out.

And the tibial fractures I’m referring to are the ones with a gross deformity. Hairline fractures, stress fractures aren’t what I was referring to when I said “as in the shin actually snapping.” Have you seen anyone bear weight on a compound tibial fracture?

Not being argumentative, just looking for viewpoints from a guy who’s seen more of this stuff than I have as an ATC.

 

[drop bear]

Yes, this is the sort of avoiding the question nonsense I get when I ask instructors who don't actually know for real, and so just waffle until everyone forgets the original question, and they can move on.

And you are not getting a sense of irony here?