Postgame Dancers Pepper Sprayed By Police

[ballen0351]

I think that proves you don't read my posts, I don't guard your camp. I just remove people now and again. The British tax payer pays for me with the Queen being my boss. The British tax payer pays my wages and HRH the Queen is my boss.

I read your posts I was just being a smart butt

 

[jks9199]

Y'know what?

I've had the chance to swap stories with British cops. Yeah, there are differences in how we work. Hell, there are differences in how cops work in agencies that border each other. We still have more in common with each other than different...

And trying to argue whose beat is tougher goes nowhere fast... unless the goal is to make each other angry.

 

[Carol]

e a bunch of kids were doing a dance and got sprayed.

Or you could say a bunch of 200 pound dudes jacked on testosterone and adrenaline did a coordinated execution of the oldest bullying techniques around...preventing someone from leaving a room or an area. They didn't move even after other students and cops told them to make a hole. Its this kind of crap that crosses the line between intimidation and threat and I think the responding officers saw that clearly. Now the footballers are humiliated that they got caught and "nooo, its cuuultchaaaa" is just a variation of the indignant "But I didn't do anything..." whine.

Maybe now the footballers will get the the message that just because you're a big dude that can play a ball game doesn't mean you can do whatever you damn well please...but I doubt it.

 

[Tez3]

I read your posts I was just being a smart butt

Read but didn't understand and thought it was a pissing contest over who's police had the tougher time so tried to make out that we do little and know less as shown by your sarcasm.

If these footballers are being intimidating it's because they are allowed to be, it would have been easier to take everyone off through another exit and leave them to do their thing to an empty stadium, see who they could have impressed then. Nothing like a bunch of show offs being ignored. I still go back to my feeling that if stewards had been placed properly the exit would have been cleared immediately as soon as more than two people were stood there. Prevention is always better than cure.

 

[jks9199]

Most HS stadiums in my experience only really have one or two entrances. The central field (big enough for football, soccer & now lacrosse) is usually surrounded by a track used for the various races in track & field events. There's typically one main gate, so that the paying audience can get in, and a few other gates that are typically locked to allow for them to bring mowers and other equipment in.

I don't know about this particular stadium, of course... Actually, thanks to the wonders of Google.... Here's a link (I hope) that shows the field; or if this works, this should be a nice aerial picture showing the field from Bing. My guess is that the main gate is at the northwest corner, alongside a baseball field.

They're not designed like a major arena, with tons of exits. They're playing fields with some seating...

 

[Tez3]

Most HS stadiums in my experience only really have one or two entrances. The central field (big enough for football, soccer & now lacrosse) is usually surrounded by a track used for the various races in track & field events. There's typically one main gate, so that the paying audience can get in, and a few other gates that are typically locked to allow for them to bring mowers and other equipment in.

I don't know about this particular stadium, of course... Actually, thanks to the wonders of Google.... Here's a link (I hope) that shows the field; or if this works, this should be a nice aerial picture showing the field from Bing. My guess is that the main gate is at the northwest corner, alongside a baseball field.

They're not designed like a major arena, with tons of exits. They're playing fields with some seating...[/QUOTE


Paying audience? If you have people paying to watch these games that takes it into a whole different situation. Here it'd would have to be licensed, fire inspected and insured. No proper stewarding? Then you'd get shut down. It doesn't sound like your High School sport is much like schools sport more like professionals.

 

[ballen0351]

Read but didn't understand and thought it was a pissing contest over who's police had the tougher time so tried to make out that we do little and know less as shown by your sarcasm.

If these footballers are being intimidating it's because they are allowed to be, it would have been easier to take everyone off through another exit and leave them to do their thing to an empty stadium, see who they could have impressed then. Nothing like a bunch of show offs being ignored. I still go back to my feeling that if stewards had been placed properly the exit would have been cleared immediately as soon as more than two people were stood there. Prevention is always better than cure.

I wasnt comparing my job to yours you made several comments about my lack of training and understanding and how if i had better training i could never use OC again. I was explaining to you the type of people I deal with and how using my verbal judo skills dont work on them. Thses types of people only respect Power and if you show weakness they will eat you alive.
I respect all police officers no matter where or what they patrol. Ive had the great pleasue of working in a very small police department where we got more calls for loose horses and cows then shootings and assaults and now I work in a very urban setting that is totally different. Both have challenges and Ive been in more hairy situations in my first little department then I have in my big department. Mostof the calls I went to in the little department I was alone. If it went bad my back up would be 30 to 40 min away if even that close.

As for the second part of your comment Im not sure how else to make you understand. This is a High School Football game not a professional game. They prob didnt have Stewards. The town of Roosevelt UT according to the website only has a population of 6000 people so its a very Small town. I couldnt find any numbers on total officers for the department but they dont even have their own website so I imagine its Small. I would guess at most you have a few teachers and 1 or 2 cops total in the stadium. They dont even have a paid fire department in the town. So Im sure there was no stewards to keep the exit clear ahead of time.
Ignoring them or going to a different exit would just cause more problems in my opinion. It would just make these guys think they can do what ever they want. If the officer walked up told them to clear the exit they refused and he said "Oh ok well we will just go to a different exit" now these guys are thinking they run the show and it will be harder for the officer to keep order next time. As it stands now I bet after this incident these guys wont block the exit at the next game.

 

[Tez3]

I wasnt comparing my job to yours you made several comments about my lack of training and understanding and how if i had better training i could never use OC again. I was explaining to you the type of people I deal with and how using my verbal judo skills dont work on them. Thses types of people only respect Power and if you show weakness they will eat you alive.
I respect all police officers no matter where or what they patrol. Ive had the great pleasue of working in a very small police department where we got more calls for loose horses and cows then shootings and assaults and now I work in a very urban setting that is totally different. Both have challenges and Ive been in more hairy situations in my first little department then I have in my big department. Mostof the calls I went to in the little department I was alone. If it went bad my back up would be 30 to 40 min away if even that close.

As for the second part of your comment Im not sure how else to make you understand. This is a High School Football game not a professional game. They prob didnt have Stewards. The town of Roosevelt UT according to the website only has a population of 6000 people so its a very Small town. I couldnt find any numbers on total officers for the department but they dont even have their own website so I imagine its Small. I would guess at most you have a few teachers and 1 or 2 cops total in the stadium. They dont even have a paid fire department in the town. So Im sure there was no stewards to keep the exit clear ahead of time.
Ignoring them or going to a different exit would just cause more problems in my opinion. It would just make these guys think they can do what ever they want. If the officer walked up told them to clear the exit they refused and he said "Oh ok well we will just go to a different exit" now these guys are thinking they run the show and it will be harder for the officer to keep order next time. As it stands now I bet after this incident these guys wont block the exit at the next game.

6000, a very small town? To you maybe, here we have two cities with smaller populations. 6000 is a large population by our standards. I'm getting mixed messages here from different posters, that high school football is a pressured place with much riding on students doing well, that admission is charged to watch these games and now you are saying this is a very small thing. By your standards perhaps.

These guys thinking they run the show? How so when they would have been ignored. Small police numbers means creative thinking, lateral thinking if you like or a big dollop of what Terry Pratchett calls 'headology'.

One thing that is being assumed is that the people at the exit, who were making a lot of noise actually heard the police officer asking them to move, it's likely they didn't yet people are blaming them for not moving when asked, what if they didn't hear?

 

[ballen0351]

6000, a very small town? To you maybe, here we have two cities with smaller populations. 6000 is a large population by our standards. I'm getting mixed messages here from different posters, that high school football is a pressured place with much riding on students doing well, that admission is charged to watch these games and now you are saying this is a very small thing. By your standards perhaps.

These guys thinking they run the show? How so when they would have been ignored. Small police numbers means creative thinking, lateral thinking if you like or a big dollop of what Terry Pratchett calls 'headology'.

One thing that is being assumed is that the people at the exit, who were making a lot of noise actually heard the police officer asking them to move, it's likely they didn't yet people are blaming them for not moving when asked, what if they didn't hear?

Again it comes down to where you are in the country. Some places in the US high school football is king they have huge stadiums ect. MOST places however are not like this. Like I said where I live now my kids highschool does not even have a football team and has no stadium. Most schools around here dont charge admission or if they do its usually a 1 or 2 dollars for ticket and thats used as a fundraiser for the program since most schools dont pay for high school sports any more due to budget cuts. Roosevelt looks to fall into this catagory. Check there website out it def looks like a small town to me http://rooseveltcity.com/. I live in a small town and we have still have 12000 people here.


Im saying if the officer approached the group asked them to move and they refused and he just backed down and walked away the message he would be sending to them is the cops in this town are sissys and we dont need to listen to them. It also would cause the citizens that saw that happen loose faith in there police force.


You keep saying they didnt hear the officer. I can hear people on the tape saying move and the guy filming is not even close to the crowd. But ok lets say they didnt hear him. The def saw him he was moving people out of the way walking thru the middle of the crowd. They knew they were blocking the exit. If you #1 Blocking and exit at the end of a game #2 know people want to leave the game since its over #3 see a cop walking towards you well at some point common sense needs to set in and you need to move. When you dont well you see the results.
In fact I just watched the clip again there were 2 officers both saying move and were moving people out of the way even before the dance started. They refused to move and then began the dance. There is no way you cant see and hear 2 officers standing right in front of you moving people away.

 

[Tez3]

Again it comes down to where you are in the country. Some places in the US high school football is king they have huge stadiums ect. MOST places however are not like this. Like I said where I live now my kids highschool does not even have a football team and has no stadium. Most schools around here dont charge admission or if they do its usually a 1 or 2 dollars for ticket and thats used as a fundraiser for the program since most schools dont pay for high school sports any more due to budget cuts. Roosevelt looks to fall into this catagory. Check there website out it def looks like a small town to me http://rooseveltcity.com/. I live in a small town and we have still have 12000 people here.


Im saying if the officer approached the group asked them to move and they refused and he just backed down and walked away the message he would be sending to them is the cops in this town are sissys and we dont need to listen to them. It also would cause the citizens that saw that happen loose faith in there police force.


You keep saying they didnt hear the officer. I can hear people on the tape saying move and the guy filming is not even close to the crowd. But ok lets say they didnt hear him. The def saw him he was moving people out of the way walking thru the middle of the crowd. They knew they were blocking the exit. If you #1 Blocking and exit at the end of a game #2 know people want to leave the game since its over #3 see a cop walking towards you well at some point common sense needs to set in and you need to move. When you dont well you see the results.
In fact I just watched the clip again there were 2 officers both saying move and were moving people out of the way even before the dance started. They refused to move and then began the dance. There is no way you cant see and hear 2 officers standing right in front of you moving people away.

Please read what I write. I don't keep insisting they didn't hear him, I said we are assuming they did hear him, a lot of stuff is assumed whenever we have an OP like this, people read into the situation what they want. We can't possibly know what actually happened just from looking at a video so what we do is specualte on various scenerios based on what we can see, some are possible, some not, some very unlikely and some that may as close to the truth as you can get on somewhere like that. We can't deal with the truth here, no one can. We are speculating so in fact anyone with a theory can be right.
This is turning into a mass of misunderstandings, I wasn't saying it wasn't a small town to you, but it's a large town to us, as I said we have a couple of cities that have less than 6000 people. We are a small place, our towns are small, our cities small compared to yours. We have villages and hamlets, they are very small. You seem to think I'm contradicting you all the time, I'm not.

They may have heard him, they may not have, we can't assume either is absolutely true. The may have been criminal in not clearing the exit or they may have just been oblivious doing their haka, we cannot know unless we were there. We can only surmise based on our own experiences and knowledge.
The video was presented in such a way that it looked like a racial incident, again we can't know whether it actually was or not. the point of discussing it here can only be so get peoples opinions, there can't be a right or wrong because we weren't there.