Police brutality.
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Tgace
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The Police Officer
What is a police officer made of? He or she, is at the same time the most needed and yet the most unwanted...a strangely nameless creature who is "officer" to their face and "pig" behind their back.
They suffer from an overdose of publicity about brutality and dishonesty. They suffer far more from the notoriety produced by the unfounded charges. Too often, acts of heroism go unnoticed and the truth is buried under all the criticism.
The fact is that less then one half of one percent of police officers ever discredit their uniform. Thats a better average than you will find among clergymen.
A police officer is an ordinary man or woman who is called upon for extra ordinary bravery. Their job may sometimes seem routine, but the interruptions can be moments of stark terror.
They are the ones who face a half crazed gunman, who rescues a lost child, who challenges a mob and who risks his or her neck more often than we realize. They deserve our respect and profound thanks.
A police officer must be such a diplomat that he or she can settle differences between individuals so that each person will think we won. But if the police officer is neat, they are conceited. If they are careless, their a bum. If they are pleasant, their a flirt. If their not, their a grouch.
In an instant, they must make decisions which require months for a lawyer. But if they are in a hurry, they are careless. If they take their time, they are lazy.
They must be first to an accident, infallible with a diagnosis. They must be able to start breathing, stop bleeding, tie splints, and above all, be sure the victim goes home without a limp, or expect to be sued.
The police officer must know every gun, draw on the run, and hit where it doesnt hurt.
They must be able to whip two men their size and half their age, without damaging their uniform and without being brutal. If you hit them, they are cowards. If he hits you, hes a bully.
A police officer must know everything and not tell. They must know where all the sin is and not partake.
The police officer must, from a single human hair, be able to describe the crime, the weapon, and the criminal, and tell you where the criminal is hiding. But if they catch the criminal, they are lucky. If they don't, their a dunce.
If they get promoted, they had political pull. If they don't, their a dullard.
The police officer must chase bum leads to a dead end and stake out ten nights to tag one witness who saw it happen, but refuses to remember.
They run files and writes reports until their eyes ache, to build a case against a felon who will be let off the hook by his lawyer or an honorable who isnt so honorable.
A police officer is a protector in time of need and a comforter in time of sorrow. Their job calls for them to be a minister, a psychologist, a diplomat, a tough guy, a friend, and an inspiration. And, of course, they will have to be a genius, for they will have to feed a family on a police officers salary.
Heroism's face often turns ugly for police
By HOWARD TROXLER
The amazing thing is that this guy, a kid's uncle, wrestles a 7-foot bull shark to the shore last Friday up in the Panhandle, a 200-pound shark that has just torn off his nephew's arm, throwing that giant slap-thrashing fish up onto the sand so that a park ranger can shoot it in the head, and they prop open the mouth with a police baton and reach in and pull out the kid's arm so it can be reattached. Oh, man.
Then, the uncle and his wife are tying off the kid's limbs with beach towels as tourniquets -- beach towels! -- and administering CPR. And the uncle calls 911 and talks to the dispatcher to make sure help is on the way. And the dispatcher says, "Everybody is on the way, okay?" And the uncle finishes the call by telling the dispatcher, "Okay, thank you." See, he remembers to say thank you.
Two weeks ago, a woman is swimming at a lake in Pasco County, and suddenly she gets jerked under the water, one second she's there and the next she's not, just like, as her husband put it, "one of the scenes out of Jaws." So this is what he does, he starts fighting it and kicking it, whatever that thing is in the water, which turns out to be a 9-foot, 8-inch, 350-pound alligator, until it lets his wife go. This was an entirely impressive feat, not diminished even by the fact that they later called a news conference to say they were trying to find somebody to sue.
Two weeks before that, a guy's car gets hit on the Howard Frankland Bridge, plunges over the side, and the guy is thrown out of his car and is floating away in Tampa Bay. So this car with two teenage lifeguards pulls up and they see his body floating away and they talk about jumping in.
A woman comes running up with a little pink kiddie-toy inner tube. One of the lifeguards takes it without any hesitation and jumps off the bridge into Tampa Bay. He can't see because the water is rough and it's dark and so he relies on shouts from the bridge above for direction to the victim's body. The victim turns out to be dead, but the kid cradles him for the next 45 minutes, at first alone and then with a police diver.
On Tuesday they buried a Tampa police officer named Lois Marrero. She was shot and killed while she was chasing a pair of bank robbers. The guy shot her in a parking lot and she didn't stand a chance, as if in an ambush -- if not planned then that's the way it worked out. She didn't get to draw; they took her gun as she lay on the ground.
Can we say from these stories what heroism is? The shark-wrestling uncle surely is a hero. So is the alligator-fighting husband, the bridge-jumping lifeguard. So was the guy from Jacksonville who gave his life last weekend trying to save a kid from a riptide. The rest of us hear about these people with awe and ask ourselves silently: Given the same split-second, would I do the same? Could I?
Here is one difference, though. Nobody wakes up in the morning saying, "Today I might have to wrestle a bull shark, or save my beloved from an alligator, or jump off a bridge." But every police officer, every day, goes to work knowing what might be.
The fact that police take on this risk does not mean that they catch any special breaks, either, and this is not to say they should. Their decisions are second-guessed. Their powers are constantly debated, as they should be. The police know these hard political facts very well. Do you know what would have happened had Lois Marrero shot and killed the bad guy, instead of the other tragic way around? Today she would be suspended, getting questioned. Maybe, as often happens, some citizen would be claiming that he saw it all and that she used too much force.
That's how the world works for police officers. It does not seem too maudlin, or too worshipful, to say to each of them this morning, thank you. - You can reach Howard Troxler at (727) 893-8505 or at [email protected].
What is a police officer made of? He or she, is at the same time the most needed and yet the most unwanted...a strangely nameless creature who is "officer" to their face and "pig" behind their back.
They suffer from an overdose of publicity about brutality and dishonesty. They suffer far more from the notoriety produced by the unfounded charges. Too often, acts of heroism go unnoticed and the truth is buried under all the criticism.
The fact is that less then one half of one percent of police officers ever discredit their uniform. Thats a better average than you will find among clergymen.
A police officer is an ordinary man or woman who is called upon for extra ordinary bravery. Their job may sometimes seem routine, but the interruptions can be moments of stark terror.
They are the ones who face a half crazed gunman, who rescues a lost child, who challenges a mob and who risks his or her neck more often than we realize. They deserve our respect and profound thanks.
A police officer must be such a diplomat that he or she can settle differences between individuals so that each person will think we won. But if the police officer is neat, they are conceited. If they are careless, their a bum. If they are pleasant, their a flirt. If their not, their a grouch.
In an instant, they must make decisions which require months for a lawyer. But if they are in a hurry, they are careless. If they take their time, they are lazy.
They must be first to an accident, infallible with a diagnosis. They must be able to start breathing, stop bleeding, tie splints, and above all, be sure the victim goes home without a limp, or expect to be sued.
The police officer must know every gun, draw on the run, and hit where it doesnt hurt.
They must be able to whip two men their size and half their age, without damaging their uniform and without being brutal. If you hit them, they are cowards. If he hits you, hes a bully.
A police officer must know everything and not tell. They must know where all the sin is and not partake.
The police officer must, from a single human hair, be able to describe the crime, the weapon, and the criminal, and tell you where the criminal is hiding. But if they catch the criminal, they are lucky. If they don't, their a dunce.
If they get promoted, they had political pull. If they don't, their a dullard.
The police officer must chase bum leads to a dead end and stake out ten nights to tag one witness who saw it happen, but refuses to remember.
They run files and writes reports until their eyes ache, to build a case against a felon who will be let off the hook by his lawyer or an honorable who isnt so honorable.
A police officer is a protector in time of need and a comforter in time of sorrow. Their job calls for them to be a minister, a psychologist, a diplomat, a tough guy, a friend, and an inspiration. And, of course, they will have to be a genius, for they will have to feed a family on a police officers salary.
Heroism's face often turns ugly for police
By HOWARD TROXLER
The amazing thing is that this guy, a kid's uncle, wrestles a 7-foot bull shark to the shore last Friday up in the Panhandle, a 200-pound shark that has just torn off his nephew's arm, throwing that giant slap-thrashing fish up onto the sand so that a park ranger can shoot it in the head, and they prop open the mouth with a police baton and reach in and pull out the kid's arm so it can be reattached. Oh, man.
Then, the uncle and his wife are tying off the kid's limbs with beach towels as tourniquets -- beach towels! -- and administering CPR. And the uncle calls 911 and talks to the dispatcher to make sure help is on the way. And the dispatcher says, "Everybody is on the way, okay?" And the uncle finishes the call by telling the dispatcher, "Okay, thank you." See, he remembers to say thank you.
Two weeks ago, a woman is swimming at a lake in Pasco County, and suddenly she gets jerked under the water, one second she's there and the next she's not, just like, as her husband put it, "one of the scenes out of Jaws." So this is what he does, he starts fighting it and kicking it, whatever that thing is in the water, which turns out to be a 9-foot, 8-inch, 350-pound alligator, until it lets his wife go. This was an entirely impressive feat, not diminished even by the fact that they later called a news conference to say they were trying to find somebody to sue.
Two weeks before that, a guy's car gets hit on the Howard Frankland Bridge, plunges over the side, and the guy is thrown out of his car and is floating away in Tampa Bay. So this car with two teenage lifeguards pulls up and they see his body floating away and they talk about jumping in.
A woman comes running up with a little pink kiddie-toy inner tube. One of the lifeguards takes it without any hesitation and jumps off the bridge into Tampa Bay. He can't see because the water is rough and it's dark and so he relies on shouts from the bridge above for direction to the victim's body. The victim turns out to be dead, but the kid cradles him for the next 45 minutes, at first alone and then with a police diver.
On Tuesday they buried a Tampa police officer named Lois Marrero. She was shot and killed while she was chasing a pair of bank robbers. The guy shot her in a parking lot and she didn't stand a chance, as if in an ambush -- if not planned then that's the way it worked out. She didn't get to draw; they took her gun as she lay on the ground.
Can we say from these stories what heroism is? The shark-wrestling uncle surely is a hero. So is the alligator-fighting husband, the bridge-jumping lifeguard. So was the guy from Jacksonville who gave his life last weekend trying to save a kid from a riptide. The rest of us hear about these people with awe and ask ourselves silently: Given the same split-second, would I do the same? Could I?
Here is one difference, though. Nobody wakes up in the morning saying, "Today I might have to wrestle a bull shark, or save my beloved from an alligator, or jump off a bridge." But every police officer, every day, goes to work knowing what might be.
The fact that police take on this risk does not mean that they catch any special breaks, either, and this is not to say they should. Their decisions are second-guessed. Their powers are constantly debated, as they should be. The police know these hard political facts very well. Do you know what would have happened had Lois Marrero shot and killed the bad guy, instead of the other tragic way around? Today she would be suspended, getting questioned. Maybe, as often happens, some citizen would be claiming that he saw it all and that she used too much force.
That's how the world works for police officers. It does not seem too maudlin, or too worshipful, to say to each of them this morning, thank you. - You can reach Howard Troxler at (727) 893-8505 or at [email protected].
Tgace
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Good Site...
http://www.neiassociates.org/defense.htm
Im not saying that police misconduct is nonexistant, or that police/criminals shouldnt be punished (they should). Heres a good site explaining various forms of police misconduct and methods to implement ethical policing.
http://faculty.ncwc.edu/toconnor/205/205lect11.htm
Flatlander
Grandmaster
Excellent Post Tom. :asian:
I remember a friend of mine that said something to me that stuck. "It takes a certain kind of person to take on a job that pays poorly, has bad hours and consistantly puts you directly in danger." There are some that do it for noble reasons (protecting and serving, family legacy, ect.), but there are many also I think that have a bully mentality or just want a job that lets them carry a gun. I've met a lot of police in my limited time in this world and one thing I always remember is that for every cop I meet with normal priorities, I meet one with a bully/jock mentality. I have noticed that the older vets usually completely lack that mindset and are both down to earth and restrained in their actions.
1) Sometimes, but many times they stop crimes in progress or before they are comitted, like random patrols or drug busts.
2) Corruption exists everywhere, it is inescapable, but often controlable.
3) This I agree with. While the majority of police agencies have progressed to better tactics, I think the notion of a slower escalation to violence or adopting more non-aggressive techniques for many situations is needed. Most police forces have rules and policies that suggest actions, but I don't think they enforce them at all and I think there is too much "protecting my other brothers in blue" even when they are obviously wrong.
4) Depends on the officer and how his day went. I've met many a friendly customer service rep who neither friendly nor of much service.
5) Elect a stronger mayor or run yourself. The fact is money still pulls the strings and the paychecks still come from the mayor or city council.
6) See 5.
7) That is the nature of the business. You have to break eggs to make an omlette. They are still accountable for their actions. I would like to see a federal watchdog agency that handles police disputes though.
The only problem with that is that a constibulary or night watch can't handle the needs of a large city, also you lose the benefits on the logistics side of things and on actual ability to maintain order due to the amount of cases and people you may need to control at one call. This type of system has been used, as you mentioned, but it is not efficient in larger settings. In smaller settings it's called a sheriff and there are still issues of corruption.
Kevin Walker said:
1) Sometimes, but many times they stop crimes in progress or before they are comitted, like random patrols or drug busts.
2) Corruption exists everywhere, it is inescapable, but often controlable.
3) This I agree with. While the majority of police agencies have progressed to better tactics, I think the notion of a slower escalation to violence or adopting more non-aggressive techniques for many situations is needed. Most police forces have rules and policies that suggest actions, but I don't think they enforce them at all and I think there is too much "protecting my other brothers in blue" even when they are obviously wrong.
4) Depends on the officer and how his day went. I've met many a friendly customer service rep who neither friendly nor of much service.
5) Elect a stronger mayor or run yourself. The fact is money still pulls the strings and the paychecks still come from the mayor or city council.
6) See 5.
7) That is the nature of the business. You have to break eggs to make an omlette. They are still accountable for their actions. I would like to see a federal watchdog agency that handles police disputes though.
Kevin Walker said:
The only problem with that is that a constibulary or night watch can't handle the needs of a large city, also you lose the benefits on the logistics side of things and on actual ability to maintain order due to the amount of cases and people you may need to control at one call. This type of system has been used, as you mentioned, but it is not efficient in larger settings. In smaller settings it's called a sheriff and there are still issues of corruption.
B
Baytor
Guest
Magic exists in this world. I have seen it. I saw a police officer touch a little button on his radio and presto: Every other cop in the area magically apeared within a minute.Kevin Walker said:
It doesn't matter what kind of skills you have, cops always have more friends, and cops always fight to win.
It is unfortunate that you have had such negative contact with law enforcement. I have never seen a cop take the time to harrass law abiding citizens, they have always been too busy working.
Tgace said:
Very poetic and fun. I agree with most of it, except:
"The fact is that less then one half of one percent of police officers ever discredit their uniform. Thats a better average than you will find among clergymen."
Those are the one's that get caught in a system that makes it easy for them to hide or deny offenses.
"A police officer is an ordinary man or woman who is called upon for extra ordinary bravery. Their job may sometimes seem routine, but the interruptions can be moments of stark terror.
They are the ones who face a half crazed gunman, who rescues a lost child, who challenges a mob and who risks his or her neck more often than we realize. They deserve our respect and profound thanks."
Some do these things and some don't. As I found out recently, they aren't required to do most of the things we expect them to.
"They must be able to whip two men their size and half their age, without damaging their uniform and without being brutal. If you hit them, they are cowards. If he hits you, hes a bully."
I know many officers that don't meet this requirement and aren't required to.
"They must know where all the sin is and not partake."
No more than any other man and with roughly the same consequences if they do partake.
I agree that many officers get prejudged and that they sometimes do perilous deeds, but usually not without thanks. Some of the other gripes in this are the same for all jobs, not just cops. Just like anyone else they should get a pat on the back if they do good and a swat on the wrist when they don't, the main differance is that there are steeper consequences.
What it really comes down to is that I respect the man, not the badge.
Flatlander
Grandmaster
OULobo said:
Good Point Sir.
- Thread Starter
- #90
Originally Posted by Kevin Walker
If you're a proficient martial artist with the requisite number of street fights under your belt, the cop loses.
Ya know some police also seem to be Martial artists. *Looks over at Tgace.
Heres to the good police oficers out there :drinkbeer. Oops I'm under age.
If you're a proficient martial artist with the requisite number of street fights under your belt, the cop loses.
Ya know some police also seem to be Martial artists. *Looks over at Tgace.
Heres to the good police oficers out there :drinkbeer. Oops I'm under age.
M
muaythaifreak
Guest
I see a lot of generalizing statements being made that are simply not applicable to all police officers. To say that "police" are corrupt is like saying that "catholic priests" are pedofiles. I am a police officer, and while there is the occasional bad apple, I can say from first hand experience that they are the exception and not the rule. I hope that when you need some help, when someone is mugging you or trying to kill you that a police officer is around to save your ***. And I hope you'll be man enough to say, "thank you officer.". As for your comment about "winning" against a police officer in a fight, don't kid yourself. Even if you kick the s**t out of him, (here's the good part), more are coming. If not now, later. So by all means, resist obstruct and delay. And when you do please visit my little county.
muaythaifreak said:
Gee. . . that's helping abolish the image of cops as violent jocks and bullies.
(I understand your motivation, but if he's going to learn, it's going to be the hard way, not on an online forum.)
Trent
Green Belt
Should you be a witness or victim of "true" police brutality do not hesitate to contact your respective U.S. Attorney's Office with the following statute that applies (among others):
TITLE 18 > PART I > CHAPTER 13 > Sec. 242.
Sec. 242. - Deprivation of rights under color of law
Whoever, under color of any law, statute, ordinance, regulation, or custom, willfully subjects any person in any State, Territory, Commonwealth, Possession, or District to the deprivation of any rights, privileges, or immunities secured or protected by the Constitution or laws of the United States, or to different punishments, pains, or penalties, on account of such person being an alien, or by reason of his color, or race, than are prescribed for the punishment of citizens, shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than one year, or both; and if bodily injury results from the acts committed in violation of this section or if such acts include the use, attempted use, or threatened use of a dangerous weapon, explosives, or fire, shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than ten years, or both; and if death results from the acts committed in violation of this section or if such acts include kidnapping or an attempt to kidnap, aggravated sexual abuse, or an attempt to commit aggravated sexual abuse, or an attempt to kill, shall be fined under this title, or imprisoned for any term of years or for life, or both, or may be sentenced to death
TITLE 18 > PART I > CHAPTER 13 > Sec. 242.
Sec. 242. - Deprivation of rights under color of law
Whoever, under color of any law, statute, ordinance, regulation, or custom, willfully subjects any person in any State, Territory, Commonwealth, Possession, or District to the deprivation of any rights, privileges, or immunities secured or protected by the Constitution or laws of the United States, or to different punishments, pains, or penalties, on account of such person being an alien, or by reason of his color, or race, than are prescribed for the punishment of citizens, shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than one year, or both; and if bodily injury results from the acts committed in violation of this section or if such acts include the use, attempted use, or threatened use of a dangerous weapon, explosives, or fire, shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than ten years, or both; and if death results from the acts committed in violation of this section or if such acts include kidnapping or an attempt to kidnap, aggravated sexual abuse, or an attempt to commit aggravated sexual abuse, or an attempt to kill, shall be fined under this title, or imprisoned for any term of years or for life, or both, or may be sentenced to death
L
Littledragon
Guest
I just want to say something, personally I am against police brutality. I think it is a form of cowardness that a police officer beats a young black male because he feels he is a threat even though the male is unarmed. It is situations like these I just feel ashamed of.
L
Littledragon
Guest
Yea you probably are right lol.Tgace said:
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I think the MAIN problem comes not from "Police as a whole"
But from a System who values the Income Police can bring into the community, over the good they can do preventing "real" crime.
(Solution: Instead of encouraging cops to sit for hours on end running radar to slow speeders down to generate revenue, have more of them patrol "at risk neighborhood"s, and stop speeders as they encounter them. It erks me that the argument is always made that the cops cannot be "everywhere" or there is not enough manpower, but there are plenty of officers availibe for "speedtraps". And before this becomes "You are bitter because you get tickets" Ive been driving for over 15 years, and Ive had less than 5 speeding tix, so that's NOT it.)
From a System that considers the Police as gods, and "civilians" all as criminals.
(I dont have a solution to this... but as long as the cop's word is ALWAYS taken over the civilians, it is going to to be that way)
From a System that teaches officers "You are always right, even when you are wrong, let the courts sort that out"
(Solution: Teach the officers in training to listen, think, reason out the situation, and look at it from different perspectives. Part of that is for the system to recognize the difference between the "word of the law" and the "spirit of the law")
I could go on... but I think you see my point... in most cases The System is more to blame than the cops... but hey... there are bad cops as well as good ones.
But from a System who values the Income Police can bring into the community, over the good they can do preventing "real" crime.
(Solution: Instead of encouraging cops to sit for hours on end running radar to slow speeders down to generate revenue, have more of them patrol "at risk neighborhood"s, and stop speeders as they encounter them. It erks me that the argument is always made that the cops cannot be "everywhere" or there is not enough manpower, but there are plenty of officers availibe for "speedtraps". And before this becomes "You are bitter because you get tickets" Ive been driving for over 15 years, and Ive had less than 5 speeding tix, so that's NOT it.)
From a System that considers the Police as gods, and "civilians" all as criminals.
(I dont have a solution to this... but as long as the cop's word is ALWAYS taken over the civilians, it is going to to be that way)
From a System that teaches officers "You are always right, even when you are wrong, let the courts sort that out"
(Solution: Teach the officers in training to listen, think, reason out the situation, and look at it from different perspectives. Part of that is for the system to recognize the difference between the "word of the law" and the "spirit of the law")
I could go on... but I think you see my point... in most cases The System is more to blame than the cops... but hey... there are bad cops as well as good ones.
Tgace
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I think you are referring to my old post...let me state again. Its not a case of "IM right even if im wrong...". Its a case of; if I have probable cause, and based on all I see have reason to arrest you, Im "right" on that scene even if the fact is you didnt commit the crime (how am I supposed to know that?). What "proof positive" determination of guilt do you know of?
As to speed traps and manpower, maybe other agencies work differently, but around here its the State Police on the Thruways that do a lot of speed enforcement. In my dept we have 2 Traffic cars that do most of the radar work and accident/DWI processing. I am radar certified, but only use it when I get a car that has it. Even then I use it primarily as PC for a stop so I can get guns/drugs/warrants/stolen property etc. I usually only write blatent lead feet. The same can be said of about 90% of my dept.
Problem is that when police are wrong, even severely wrong, even repeatedly severely wrong, they are not fired. How many have we seen cleared when their conduct was so obviously unjust even the jury said so but could not move forward because of technicality?
I respect law enforcement and police officers - I wouldn't want their job. But get rid of the ones that give law enforcement a bad name - not just transfer them out of state.
I live in Washington State and Oregon and Washington are dealing with officers that were transferred because of questionable conduct in California. So they bring their questionable conduct up here. Why not put them on a desk job?
I respect law enforcement and police officers - I wouldn't want their job. But get rid of the ones that give law enforcement a bad name - not just transfer them out of state.
I live in Washington State and Oregon and Washington are dealing with officers that were transferred because of questionable conduct in California. So they bring their questionable conduct up here. Why not put them on a desk job?
Tgace
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Ive seen 3 officers from my dept. terminated in my career. And various other civil suits where cops lost and $$ laid out. It wasnt announced over the media. You may be supprised how many cops leave the job without notice. The issue is, take that cop in Cali. ...Even if he was a "good cop" with no other incidents of improper use of force, and acted improperly after a stressful, 30 min chase, foot pursuit and apprehension of a person who may have been armed (not an excuse, just mitigating circumstance), there are people that will want him fired over an incident where he may really only "deserve" an adnimistrative punishment. If he does only get an administrative punishment, then its the "blue wall" story. Are there bad cops who slip through the system, yes. I would say there are more "borderline" cops who know how to ride that area between outright "badness" and not bad enough to get fired. If that cop in Ca. has a history of this kind of thing, thats a whole different story.
