Pole both sides?
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Danny T
Senior Master
I do the strengthening exercises and some of the drills for pole work on both sides but the form only on one side.
wckf92
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Same here
Danny T
Senior Master
Form is for knowing the moves and positions.
The exercises and drills are for developing how to control and use the pole. I don't use the form for drilling or for training against another pole or swords. I don't fight with the form.
The exercises and drills are for developing how to control and use the pole. I don't use the form for drilling or for training against another pole or swords. I don't fight with the form.
One side only. Back in the day you wouldn't switch to the other side during a real exchange. Why waste training time working on both sides when you are only planning to use one side in application? Now, most Ip Man forms are very short. So not much training time is actually required to train both sides. But the Tang Yik Pole form is quite long. It doesn't make sense to spend all the time it would take to get good at it on both sides.
logjthanhlong
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Danny T
Senior Master
Why train both sides?
Because what one gains from training the pole has more to do with understanding the body, weight distribution and usage, and using body unity and structure than using the pole for fighing.
Because what one gains from training the pole has more to do with understanding the body, weight distribution and usage, and using body unity and structure than using the pole for fighing.
I've heard that from multiple people many times. That's the pretty much the "party line." But I've always thought it was a bit off. The mechanics of the pole are not the same as the mechanics empty-hand. If you look at something like Leung Ting's Wing Tsun, they are weighted nearly 0/100 empty hand but nearly 50/50 with the pole. Others not so much difference, but who uses a old fashioned "horse stance" in their empty-hand? The pole has you standing completely "sideways" to the opponent, something you are taught to avoid doing whenever possible empty-hand. As far as conditioning, in the modern world there are far more efficient ways to work on conditioning than training the pole! We know from modern sports science that if you want to get good at a specific activity, train that activity a lot and do conditioning drills that mimic that activity as much as possible. The pole does not mimic the empty-hands very well. If you wanted to work something "traditional" for conditioning, you'd be better off getting some really heavy Bart Jam Dao and training with those. At least they mimic the empty-hand motions better. Other than using many of the same tactical concepts, I see the pole as almost a completely separate system from the empty-hands. This is why Ip Man put it at the end of the curriculum and few people actually even learned it. It wasn't considered all that necessary if all you wanted to do was fight with empty-hands.
Vajramusti
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Yup and more.
One needs good instruction to understand much of wing chun. Same with the kwan.Most kwan drills have the narrow point to aim at the target but one drill ensures that the butt end can be used at close quarters in a crowded scenario. Besides, some wing chun functions are enhanced. Most of Ip Man;s students
were not taught the pole by him.Other than Ip man's kwan work-
there are some flowery pole work that looks impressive but are not functional imo.
Danny T
Senior Master
I am of the opinion that the weapons are not just something different or added in.
Yes they were added to the system but not because they were simply something else but for what they provide in terms of greater growth and understanding of what one learns in the other portions of wc. They enhance the practitioner’s dynamic stances and positioning, control of their center of gravity, use of body displacement and body unity in different positions and structures. The completed wing chun person’s skills sets become greater than the sum of the individual parts when instructed properly.
Yes they were added to the system but not because they were simply something else but for what they provide in terms of greater growth and understanding of what one learns in the other portions of wc. They enhance the practitioner’s dynamic stances and positioning, control of their center of gravity, use of body displacement and body unity in different positions and structures. The completed wing chun person’s skills sets become greater than the sum of the individual parts when instructed properly.
Some pole techniques include spear techniques. I have never heard people who train spear on both sides. You don't shoot rifle on both sides.
Danny T
Senior Master
When in the military I was trained to shoot both sides. In basic no, but in more advance combat training we shot from both sides.
Vajramusti
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One can use the butt of a rifle when needed
Using the butt of the pole is not what the OP was asking about as far as I can tell. I think he was asking about switching which side the pole is aimed towards....forward with the left hand vs. forward with the right hand. Turning to use the butt is different. It doesn't require switching sides.
You don't???
I routinely shoot right hand, left hand, both hands, prone, standing, from cover, while moving, etc etc etc.
I suspect you will find that most people who treat guns as defensive tools (as opposed to those who are purely hunters) do something similar.
Vajramusti
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- Thread Starter
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Running through the moves and positions both sides is beneficial in terms of what the pole develops
