point fighting vs. real fighting

[qwksilver61]

Point fighting is OK....Honestly...I really haven't seen too many fights on the street where someone actually used any real techniques.Mainly, basic haymaker,sometimes a kick or two,with a shakey leg,some wrestling involved,nothing real notable.Once in a while maybe even an occasional boxer.Heck, most bar bouncers don't even know how to control someone.I have yet to see anyone use real technique in a street fight straight out of what they were actually taught.

 

[kroh]

That is because most real Kung Fooligans can't be bothered with morons in a bar or bouncers. We have evolved to a higher state where instead, we can solve everything with a touch of a button...

Take a picture of the Jack Hole being a Jack Hole and then call 9-1-1 (plus how many kung pow masters has anyone really seen throwing down in a bar. They avoid places like that like the plague. Why put yourself in a situation where you are likely to get into a fight?).

Regards,
Walt

 

[bowser666]

That is because most real Kung Fooligans can't be bothered with morons in a bar or bouncers. We have evolved to a higher state where instead, we can solve everything with a touch of a button...

Take a picture of the Jack Hole being a Jack Hole and then call 9-1-1 (plus how many kung pow masters has anyone really seen throwing down in a bar. They avoid places like that like the plague. Why put yourself in a situation where you are likely to get into a fight?).

Regards,
Walt

Good point. I do have a tendency to avoid bars and stuff liek that just for that reason. Occasionally i do go to happy hour right after work , but you are typically surrounded by working professionals. Late night at the bars , IMO opinion is usually full of a-holes and non-desireable types. So I stay away from them and I don't bother anyone and noone bothers me.

 

[qwksilver61]

Ok let me rephrase....I have yet to see someone who actually uses technique in a fight,most of what I have seen is pretty basic,I believe once I witnessed someone using actual Choy Lay Fut,which was impressive against a street thug.Anybody else,no pissing contest just sharing stories.....

 

[bostonbomber]

When sucker-punched on the street or faced with some other high stress confrontation, the response of most people (including myself) is to react how they train. Train too much for point sparing then that is how you'll react - which may be insufficient for dangerous situations.

 

[qwksilver61]

No,I wasn't talking point fighting.....actual technique.....ie;chain punches,windmill punching,hooking, trapping..real technique...not whatever works..has anyone ever utilized what they were taught? I have...two maybe three moves,was it technique or? was it what-eevvvvver? Real fight...guy throws punch...I step in...tan sau.....sun punch... then follow up with chain punches...stuck with the program....beat him up. Guy(s) throw kicks....jam kicks....punch and kick and punch..true to form...beat them up.no sloppy ****.Choy Lay guy.....windmill punches....true to form...hey this #hit works...follows up with punches and kicks....looks like Kung Fu,not kitchen Kung Fu.....basic fighting vs. what you were taught.How close did you stick to the program? Did it work? if so, explain...if not? What and why? Real fighting or just as well as whatever works.....a simple question......

 

[hogstooth]

I posed this same question on another forum recently. This is my take. My classes as a youth had full contact. We actually hit one another while sparring. I quite that art for a 2 yr period because our school did not participate in the local tournaments and all of my friends were talking about how great it was to win trophies. I was very fast and had a reach advantage so I started winning tournaments and thought I was billy bad a$$. The problem was we pulled all of our punches and kicks.
One day I was confronted by another kid and I basically got my butt kicked. The problem was the techniques that I learned to win in point sparring were useless in a real life situation much the same way some Kendo techniques are useless in real life applications with a real Katana. I rejoined my old dojo and have been practicing the art for 30 years. So to answer your question if the school doesn't practice contact then no it is useless. If you practice pulling your puches everytime for years and a muscle memory has been aquirred, what do you think happens when in a real situation. You can't re-train your muscles in a split second. Hello butt kicking time and a nice trip to the ER.

 

[kingkong89]

There are those that can fight both in point fights and street fights, there are some like me that are street fighters, i train for real life senarios, unfortounatly i know that my skills and techniques are effective on the streets. I have a fellow black belt who is a point fighter, he relies on flash and speed to score ponts, i have seen his techniques they are good techniques but they would not be effective on the street. I do not compete much anymore, i believe trophies are just paper weights any way. Most of the techniques i use are illegal in tournament anyway. It all has to deal with the fact does the martial artist have to really use the skills and how well they use them

 

[hogstooth]

There are those that can fight both in point fights and street fights, there are some like me that are street fighters, i train for real life senarios, unfortounatly i know that my skills and techniques are effective on the streets. I have a fellow black belt who is a point fighter, he relies on flash and speed to score ponts, i have seen his techniques they are good techniques but they would not be effective on the street. I do not compete much anymore, i believe trophies are just paper weights any way. Most of the techniques i use are illegal in tournament anyway. It all has to deal with the fact does the martial artist have to really use the skills and how well they use them

I was looking at your profile and have to ask how many years have you been training? You have quite an extensive list of arts and I was wondering if you are ranked in all of them and if so how long have you been training?
That is a very diverse back ground. I am jealous.

 

[ckstuds]

Wow! The question of the ages, I suppose. That right along with which fighting art is superior and my sensei can beat up your sensei...

My own take on this matter is that anyone trained in the art of fighting will usually fair better than those who are untrained. How's that for fence sitting?

I will apply it to my own experience in athletics. When I played football, we would not train at our maximum potential when it came to hitting. When running through plays, we went at it at about 75% or so. This was to limit injuries during practice. Sure, we had some hitting drills that we went all out, but when it came to scrimmaging and running through plays it was a bit lighter. On gameday, we went at it at 100%. The lighter touch of practice did not take away from the reality of game day.

I suspect that it would be the same for a person trained for point sparring competition who is faced with a real fight on the street...but then again, I could be wrong all together.

The thing is, when you get it HARD. Your vision can become blurry and it will hurt. That can strike fear into someone that has never experienced that, when your afraid or nervous you wont fight as well. You have to go with the flow. I did muay thai and I was sparring freestyle with a black belt. He started out well, but than when he felt the inside and outside leg kick. He suddenly became very nervous and he didnt even strike me back anymore. He was just trying to defend, anyways I decided not to join that dojo because of that scenario.

 

[ckstuds]

I also think it has something to do with how tough you are mentally and physically. Only the toughest can survive in full contact.

 

[Grenadier]

I also think it has something to do with how tough you are mentally and physically. Only the toughest can survive in full contact.

Untrue.

Someone who is reasonably well-conditioned can take a decent number of hard strikes to the body. If you ever go to an authentic Kyokushin Kai dojo, you'll see that the students there range in all sorts of sizes and shapes, as well as levels of skill, and most of them can take full contact shots to the body. For that matter, visitors who come to those dojos from other systems are usually able to hang in there in a full contact bout.

As for surviving full contact to the head, that's irrelevant.

 

[Twin Fist]

not true at all

I also think it has something to do with how tough you are mentally and physically. Only the toughest can survive in full contact.

 

[shihansmurf]

I have never read such a short post where the poster was 100% right and 100% wrong at the same time. Its kind of interesting, actually.

I also think it has something to do with how tough you are mentally and physically.

Barring injuries, I'd say it has a lot more to do with mental toughness than physical. Having the mental capacity to push through shock, pain, and fear is essential to heavy contact fighting. Physical fitness and conditioning cannot be overstated but the mental abililty to remain calm and in control inspite of adrenaline, pain, and the fear of injury is what seperates a good heavy to full contact fighter from the rest.

Only the toughest can survive in full contact.

How do you measure that?

There are tons of boxing and mma gyms that prove otherwise. Kyokushin, as noted upthread, has students competing at
effectively all skill levels at full contacts. The Kajukenbo guys bang hard as well. If only the toughedt survive where are all of the deaths?

All joking aside, the prevalent myths associated with the deadliness of martial arts techniques, the lethality of a black belt, and the toughness of full contact fighters are a bit overblown. Heavy to full contact fighting will teach you timing, endurance, how to handle a hit, and how to deliver effective techniques against a fully resisting opponent. Is it the same as a street fight? Hell, no. It as accurate as a simulation as one is going to get with any level of safety.

Point work is better than not sparring, but I'll take heavy contact any day of the week.

I'm not among the toughest, but I survived just fine.

Mark

 

[chinto]

OK, in the end, a 'real fight' is going to last most provably less the 15 seconds, and assuredly less then 30 seconds!! the military did a study from the time two serious combatants saw each other to one of both being badly injured and unable to continue, or dead was less then 30 seconds invariably. So, on the street, if you can keep your head, realize that you have targets that are now open to striking that are illegal in tourniquet, and that you want to penetrate the target and do real damage quickly, you will almost assuredly be the one walking away. ( just go ahead and DISPATCH the attacker, get on the with job and hurt that one till he stops trying to hurt you. this means that the more damage you do swiftly, crippling so he can not chase you.. or unconscious or dead if armed so you can run the hell away!!! )