Jens,
part two
I don't really see why you keep alluding to me referring to information gleaned from the internet and books?
I believe, I was quite clear about the fact that my information comes directly from personal interaction with people and personal experience being a student/training at various schools.
Why do you ignore that and focus on mentioning association dinners? That references was made primarily to document that the plum flower symbol that you asked about in the OP is not of great enough importance to be used as a school logo on the Mainland - as opposed to HK. So how can that not be evidence? Should be clear from my previous explanation, but perhaps you choose to be purposefully oblique?
Anyway, based on what you wrote, it seems you don't have any idea about what a martial art association dinners are about and how they work - talking about/explaining gong fu only actually happens very rarely at such events. But they are good for developing "gwaan1 hai6" which is essential if you want to find out various things...
Granted, even what people tell you in person, show you and even teach you might be nonsense - but still...
Much better to learn things directly from the horse's mouth (or as close to it as one can) rather than having to rely on bits and pieces from the internet and books as you do - or at least did in this thread here.
If you don't think talking to or even learning from senior people in various schools constitute convincing evidence, but rather believe what little you can glean from books, internet discussion forums and maybe some more or less casual visits/exchanges with people who might be far removed from the source is enough for you to form a better picture than actually interacting with various senior people in various styles, that is entirely up to you...
But people who have actually looked into things won't be too impressed by your reasoning nor your conclusions.
Now, as far as personal experience goes...
You mentioned Lun Kai as a source - did you ask him this question personally? In Chinese? Or did you hear this from someone else? Do you know exactly what he said? What else did he actually say? Did you/or someone else ask into the exact details about the situation? These are just a few of the interesting questions to ask if one wants to learn more about the situation...
Then you throw out a lot of names Ku Lo Wing Chun, Yuen Kay Shan Wing Chun, Pao Fa Lien Wing Chun, Cho Ga Wing Chun...
Have you actually trained in all these styles to fully know what they contain and what not? And have you done any bai si to have access to the indoor stuff?
If not how can you speak with authority about what they have or not?
Anyway, your mind seems to be made up, so no need to explain or discuss this any further.
In your initial post you stated:
"Why is this symbol so paramount to attaining a more profound understanding of wing chun?"
Then this:
When I said "All wing chun offensive footwork regardless of wck linage comes directly from the Plum Blossom posts stepping." I meant the root of all wing chun offensive footwork came directly from the Plum Blossom posts stepping,
And this:
Just to be clear I never said anything about all branches of wing chun using the term "plum flower posts stepping" or "the plum flower logo", what I did say is I can clearly see all the wing chun offensive stepping and footwork patterns regardless of wing chun linages within the plum flower posts stepping. My facts or evidence are right there
So then, what is it?
First you bare talking about the symbol and how paramount it is, but then suddenly it is about some "plum flower post steps" from which all Wing Chun derive their footwork... And finally it amounts to what "people can see if they know what they are looking for"...
I am curious as to what exactly you think this "plum flower post footwork" is, but based on your posting history, I doubt any explanation will be forthcoming.
FWIW you are correct that most Wing Chun has the same type of steps, stances, etc. some more/some less than others but a) there is nothing particularly advanced or really profound about these and b) they are far from unique to Wing Chun - as far as I have seen up to this point. All simple and practical stuff also found in other southern Chinese martial arts. After all things such as "saam gok bo" and "zhizhibo" are already mentioned in the ancient Siulam manuscript I mentioned in another post.
So, knowing how martial arts developed it can reasonbly be assumed that footwork and steps are most likely derived from application than some symbol.
As far as what people can see in things, I guess it depends on one's imagination and the level of abstraction one employs when looking for connections and similarities. Just like some people can clearly see Taigekkuen and Ngor Mei Hei Gong in Wing Chun because they know what they are looking for...
So, my questions to you still stand:
a) which version of YM WCK do you practice and who did you learn from?
b) what exactly do you think the "Baat Gwa" footwork is?
c) since you make sweeping statements about a lot of branches of Wing Chun, which ones have you actually experienced and what was the extent of that exposure? And who was involved?
Just trying to stimulate a good discussion here.
Looking forward to learning more details.
