Picadilly Car Bombs

[Tez3]

From The Times
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/uk/crime/article2028718.ece


The Independant
http://news.independent.co.uk/uk/crime/article2737136.ece

The Telegraph
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/mai...AVCBQ0IV0?xml=/news/2007/07/05/nterror105.xml


There is believed to be no perceived connection with the Gay Pride march,
I read that yesterday in a briefing. It's believed more to do with the new government.

 

[Sukerkin]

Thanks for those, Tez :tup:.

Interesting reading, showing that even in the 'digital media age', the papers have more in-depth information that the TV.

I am struck by the protests of innocence from the families. These ring very much in resonance with any parental/sibling comments made about suddenly revealed heinous crimes by someone close. At the moment of revelation, it doesn't seem likely that your son/brother etc can have possibly done such a terrible thing, so you deny it, no matter what the evidence, or how daft it makes you sound.

I feel as sorry for these people as I do the families in Leeds in the aftermath of their children performing the bombings on the London Underground.

 

[Tez3]

Good point Sukerkin, I've always wondered about the parents of suicide bombers when they are seen applauding their childrens deaths. Do they really think that or are they greaving inside while everyone tells them what a good thing their son/daughter did? Whatever they think about the actions their child is still dead.
I have to say that I would defend my children and would never believe they would do anything as wrong as this.To find out that your loved ones are mass killers etc is an awful betrayal.

Someone had a paper yesterday ( a tabloid) where there was an interview with a man whose 2 year old daughter was raped and killed by his own brother. How do you live with that?

 

[michaeledward]

Tez3, I must commend the law enforcement officials in Great Britian for not revealing information that they do not wished revealed.

Before I went away - to a place without televisions, cell phones, and interent access - I reviewed the news reports available. Most of them said very little. There was little factual information out there.

Since my return, last evening, I have found a bit more factual information, although certainly not enough to gain a full understanding of what occurred. For instance, of the eight arrested, how many names have been revealed? In this country, names of arrested persons are released almost immediately - except for minors, and sexual assault victims.

(EDIT - I see the July 5, Timesonline report includes the names of the Glasgow driver and passenger. Was it released by anyone earlier?).


However, the last time, some crackpots in England got it in their head to do something stupid ~ bring liquids onto airplanes, perform some advanced chemistry in the loo, and create an inflight liquid bomb to simultaneously down several transatlantic flights ~ the United States government instituted rule changes upon all air travelers.

And, as I mentioned before, the time before that, it was a single crackpot, who attempted to light his Nike aflame, mid-flight, that causes all US Passengers to shed footwear.

So, Tez3, we don't leave it to you to worry about. The fear created by these actions, reasonable or unreasonable, causes very tangible consequences that probably do very little to make us more safe. Instead, it provides and illusion of safety, and a means for increased government authoritariatism.


Post Script - I understand that British law enforcement has blown up two cars. Apparently, these motor vehicles might have had a possible connection to the car bombings. But, after being deliberately exploded, it appears they were not. Just some innocent persons vehicles (one would assume). Any word on that?

 

[Tez3]

I believe the laws here are possibly very different to yours, names are very often not released and information doesn't have to be released to the public at all. there is no Freedom of Information type of legislation here. The police -in criminal cases will keep things as tight as possible and once someone has been charged it them becomes sub judice. The media can't report on a case as it may prejudice a fair trial by jury. The security service obviously will not release anything inless it's to solicit information or to resassure people.They've learnt from previous bombings campaigns, we've been wary of bombs in the UK now since 1969. The biggest problem of course is that the media especially foreign media is fond of speculating.

The cars weren't blown up as such but a controlled explosion was used to nullify any ieds there may have been in them. They are believed to have been connected to the bombers.

 

[michaeledward]

I understand. The lack of official information to be released leads to much inaccurate speculation, especially with the corporate news companies in this country. While it may be good policy on the part of British law enforcement, it creates vacuums that the witchhunters can fill.

What is the difference between 'blown up' and 'controlled explosion'? And would it matter if the car was yours? And, they were 'believed' to be connected to the bombers prior to the controlled explosion, after that, does it matter what was believed?

 

[Odin]

I understand. The lack of official information to be released leads to much inaccurate speculation, especially with the corporate news companies in this country. While it may be good policy on the part of British law enforcement, it creates vacuums that the witchhunters can fill.

What is the difference between 'blown up' and 'controlled explosion'? And would it matter if the car was yours? And, they were 'believed' to be connected to the bombers prior to the controlled explosion, after that, does it matter what was believed?

Why does any of that matter to you?

You have already stated that you think we have taken the whole thing too seriously.

Im not sure how non-serious a planned nail bomb can be taken.

To be honest i dont want to get involved in this whole debate, I live in London and was out in london the night in question.

I think you might need to have a bit of empathy before you start making the kind of comments you have made, regardless of how big the bomb was or wasnt even if it killed only one person it would have still been a tragedy.

 

[michaeledward]

Odin,

As I have stated, from the very first post in this thread, it matters to me because our governments over-react. And those over-reactions are completely out or proportion with the cause.

And, if you look at my statements, you will find that I did not state that you are taking things 'too seriously' - however, our news media, and I fear my government may very well take this too seriously - VIPER teams - Good Grief.

Although, I am certianly being attacked because many here believe that I said the things you accuse me of

Tez3 attacked me and attacked my post; not for what I said, but for what he thought I said.

And, yes, if one person had been killed, it would have been bad. I will point out that no one was killed, what do we call that? Of course, that is not what I was saying.

So, why did you enter the debate?

 

[Odin]

Odin,

As I have stated, from the very first post in this thread, it matters to me because our governments over-react. And those over-reactions are completely out or proportion with the cause.

And, if you look at my statements, you will find that I did not state that you are taking things 'too seriously' - however, our news media, and I fear my government may very well take this too seriously - VIPER teams - Good Grief.

Although, I am certianly being attacked because many here believe that I said the things you accuse me of

Tez3 attacked me and attacked my post; not for what I said, but for what he thought I said.

And, yes, if one person had been killed, it would have been bad. I will point out that no one was killed, what do we call that? Of course, that is not what I was saying.

So, why did you enter the debate?

I wasnt aware that New Prime minister has done anything, how could he then have over reacted?

......and as for the media news sells of course every single whisper that is ever produced will be printed or reported on simply because it sells, its what the media does, saying the media over reacts is like saying the japs like karoke.

Tez is a lady by the way, and you may have to give some thought into how you wrote your first comment rather then how one would read it since quite a few posters have shared Tez's opinion.

who said anything about debating? i just made a comment ( :

 

[Lisa]

Ladies and Gentlemen of this thread.

The subject at hand is the Picadilly Car Bombs and not who started what or who said what about whom. Lets get back on track please. Moderator warnings have been placed and I would hate to have this thread disrupted again. Thanks.

Lisa Deneka
MT Assist. Admin.

 

[qi-tah]

6 - And lastly, only hinted at so far, is if these eight persons are involved with the British Health Care system, might there be something more to worry about than car bombs?

I was wondering when someone would bring this up. Hospitals have a plethora of dangerous substances floating around that an enterprising doctor could lay their hands on... drugs and other chemicals, gas cylinders nice and handy, biohazardous material galore... ****, with the amount of MRSA hanging about the average hospital, all they had to do was not wash their hands between patients! (Semi-joke, unfortunately) So why were they messing about with dodgy car bombs??

Funnily enough, i believe that Tez and ME are ultimately on the same page - we must not allow fear to rule our lives. Our job as citizens (and a privelaged job, never let us forget!) is to remain the same honourable, compassionate and law-abiding persons, regardless of the threat we face. It is not our lives at stake, but our humanity. :asian:

 

[jks9199]

Why didn't they act within the medical system? Visibility.

Terrorism has as a primary goal visibility. Having the act seen, and putting the public in terror. A doctor is really just an "end user" of the medical system; while they have access to a lot of stuff that could be put to nefarious uses, the reality is the impact they could have is very limited. But a car bomb... That's visible. That's scary. And it's easier to do on a large enough scale.

There are also fewer checks; I suspect (I know it is in the US) that getting their hands on stuff that is simultaneously easily enough dispersed and handled, and sufficiently lethal to really put a scare in people isn't easy without leaving lots of tracks.

 

[donna]

The authorities are holding a doctor in Brisbane over his links to the doctors involved in the bombings, I thought that was too close to home until yesterday!. They raided Royal Perth Hospital to question two more Indian doctors, then they raided our local hospital here in Kalgoorlie to question an Indian doctor here who they suspect of having links!. The world is becoming smaller every day.

 

[qi-tah]

Why didn't they act within the medical system? Visibility.

Terrorism has as a primary goal visibility. Having the act seen, and putting the public in terror. A doctor is really just an "end user" of the medical system; while they have access to a lot of stuff that could be put to nefarious uses, the reality is the impact they could have is very limited. But a car bomb... That's visible. That's scary. And it's easier to do on a large enough scale.

There are also fewer checks; I suspect (I know it is in the US) that getting their hands on stuff that is simultaneously easily enough dispersed and handled, and sufficiently lethal to really put a scare in people isn't easy without leaving lots of tracks.

I agree about the visibility thing, but unfortunately i disagree about the ability of doctors (and other health care professionals as well) to gain access to dangerous materials... god, one of the uni's i worked at did informal swaps of materials for services etc to supplement their abysmal levels of funding! No-one asked any questions, no-one made any checks... and stuff often went missing, only to wind up in another dept a few weeks later. In an overworked hospital, how easy would it be for someone to make up a duplicate plate of some nasty, drug-resistant bacterial isolate and then go around discreetly swabbing everything in sight? Maybe chuck some Legionella influenzae in the air-conditioning cooling system? Do that in a few hospitals simulatneously and there would be a mass uproar!

As for the potential for mass deaths working within the medical system, anyone remember Dr. Shipman? 200+ deaths to his name and no-one is really sure of the exact toll... Britan's worst serial killer.

I hate to say it, but let's hope they stick to car bombs. At least we have a chance against that very "visible" (and also exposed) kind of violence. Bio-terrorism, on the other hand, is a truly terrifying prospect.