Picadilly Car Bombs

[elder999]

Okay-you'll hear enough about this in the days to come, and, while I often agree with him, MichaelEdward is waaaay off-base.

First off, I'll point you towards this post.

and wound up working in commercial nuclear power, earning degrees in mechanical and nuclear engineering, and advanced degrees in nuclear engineering and, more recently, my doctorate in applied physics. I’m a certified firefighter, HAZMAT technician, avid hunter, ultra-marathon runner and triathlete (though hardly competitive; I’m just happy to finish.), fourth-generation “gun nut,” as well as a federally certified ordinance and munitions disposal technician.

The fact is, properly packaged, one gallon of gasoline , which weighs about 7 lbs., has ten times the equivalent weight of TNT-by international treaty, TNT is defined as having 1 calorie of energy per gram, while gasoline has roughly 10 calories per gram. What this basically means is that 50 gallons of gasoline, properly packaged, is the equivalent of 3500 lbs. of TNT-almost two tons.

The additional propane, as others have pointed out, is significantly worse.

Add to this the shrapnel, cell phone hookup and runaway driver, and you basically have one of the very same IEDs that are killing troops in Iraq.
Add the reports of "smoke" (probably propane vapor-scary!) in the vehicle, and you have a pretty urgent situation.

Apropos of everything else, the typical procedure for devices-the most common one-is to take the damn thing away from people and blow it up. Or just blow it up. The romantic notion of going in and clipping wires, while part of the training, is just not the usual procedure followed.Of course, in situ detonation and removal were not options in this case, so it had to be disarmed. The tech and his partner who actually had to do this, with what was probably propane vapor all around him, knowing that he'd either save some lives or be vaporized, is to be commended.I'd wager that none-or maybe one- of you can even begin to imagine how scary it was for them.

 

[Kacey]

Mr. E and Tez - please be assured that there are plenty of Americans who are totally sympathetic to the current concerns of British citizens, very appreciative of the support shown to the US following 9/11, and that the statements of a few on a bulletin board do not generally represent the opinions of the majority.

For myself, I find nothing whatsoever amusing about the recent events in Piccadilly Circus (a place I greatly enjoyed visiting last summer), and am grateful that the car was found and removed before it could explode. I am absolutely horrified that someone would drive a flaming car into an airport, as happened in Glasgow, and strongly hope that these were isolated incidents, connected by nothing but coincidence, rather than the beginning of a series of similar events.

 

[jdinca]

Okay-you'll hear enough about this in the days to come, and, while I often agree with him, MichaelEdward is waaaay off-base.

First off, I'll point you towards this post.

[/size][/font]


The fact is, properly packaged, one gallon of gasoline , which weighs about 7 lbs., has ten times the equivalent weight of TNT-by international treaty, TNT is defined as having 1 calorie of energy per gram, while gasoline has roughly 10 calories per gram. What this basically means is that 50 gallons of gasoline, properly packaged, is the equivalent of 3500 lbs. of TNT-almost two tons.

The additional propane, as others have pointed out, is significantly worse.

Add to this the shrapnel, cell phone hookup and runaway driver, and you basically have one of the very same IEDs that are killing troops in Iraq.
Add the reports of "smoke" (probably propane vapor-scary!) in the vehicle, and you have a pretty urgent situation.

Apropos of everything else, the typical procedure for devices-the most common one-is to take the damn thing away from people and blow it up. Or just blow it up. The romantic notion of going in and clipping wires, while part of the training, is just not the usual procedure followed.Of course, in situ detonation and removal were not options in this case, so it had to be disarmed. The tech and his partner who actually had to do this, with what was probably propane vapor all around him, knowing that he'd either save some lives or be vaporized, is to be commended.I'd wager that none-or maybe one- of you can even begin to imagine how scary it was for them.

Luv the technical stuff.

I'm wondering if the atmosphere in the car was above the UEL and that's why it didn't go off.

 

[elder999]

Luv the technical stuff.

I'm wondering if the atmosphere in the car was above the UEL and that's why it didn't go off.

Well, if it was, would you have opened the door to do the disarm? Or even wanted to? (I imagine they did some sort of encapsulation-a tent filled with supressive expanding foam, and did the work in SCBA, but still.....)

 

[Karatedrifter7]

Its interesting Italy has suffered more for tourism through their economy because of 9-11 than Britain has. At least thats what Wikipedia claims.
Although they don't seem to be the subject of wackos as much as GB. I have to tread lightly here, I dont want to offend anyone on this subject so thats all I'll say.
The thumbs down is to reperesnt my disgust with the bombers.

 

[Blindside]

Its interesting Italy has suffered more for tourism through their economy because of 9-11 than Britain has. At least thats what Wikipedia claims.

I'm going to assume you meant "terrorism."

 

[Blindside]

There is a complete lack of perspective, on this issue, on this board. While real car bombs are killing American Soldiers, British Soldiers, and innocent Iraqis every week in Iraq, this incident should receive little or no coverage. And certainly not the breathless reporting it has been receiving in the news media in American.

If that was your intended message, it was certainly lost in your presentation of it.

Lamont

 

[theletch1]

Its interesting Italy has suffered more for tourism through their economy because of 9-11 than Britain has. At least thats what Wikipedia claims.
Although they don't seem to be the subject of wackos as much as GB. I have to tread lightly here, I dont want to offend anyone on this subject so thats all I'll say.
The thumbs down is to reperesnt my disgust with the bombers.

It wasn't the loss of tourist dollars that we were discussing. It was the potential loss of life. Granted the disruption of travel and daily life was mentioned but that would hardly merit the emotions elicited by the discussion. I'll agree with your thumbs down on the bombers!

 

[Karatedrifter7]

Well in my defense the Picadilly bombings are actually a loaded question, and that spreads like water. So I dont think I digressed from the subject. It kinda makes me mad to talk about the bombers so,

Respectfully bowing out,
All the best..

 

[jdinca]

Well, if it was, would you have opened the door to do the disarm? Or even wanted to? (I imagine they did some sort of encapsulation-a tent filled with supressive expanding foam, and did the work in SCBA, but still.....)

Actually, I would have been outside the perimeter, preferrably with the engine between me and the car.

If the cell phone was supposed to trigger an ignition device and the atmosphere was too rich, that could explain why it didn't go off. Based on what I've been reading, it sounds more like the terrorists weren't that technically savvy.

 

[Hand Sword]

I'm still awaiting Western Countries to start enforcing repatriation and a freeze on immigration.

 

[theletch1]

I'm still awaiting Western Countries to start enforcing repatriation and a freeze on immigration.

Handsword, please please please don't take this wrong....HAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!

OK, I feel better now. Seriously, though. I think we'll have a very long wait, at least here in America, before anything anywhere close to that happens. The immigration debate here is one of the most heated that I've ever seen and doesn't show any sign of cooling off. I wonder if we might see the repatriation and freeze if we were to have another 9/11 type attack.

 

[Blotan Hunka]

You see. Some of the extreme lefties have equated the "War on Terrorism" with president Bush. So any refrence to Terrorism and steps taken to prevent it are viewed as part of the evil Bush plot to subjugate the world through fear. Never mind that people really ARE planning to do things like fly planeloads full of innocents into buildings full of innocents. Or bomb subways, cafes etc. You see its all a Bush plot and you Brits are falling for it.

Pathetic.

Dont worry Tez. You Brits, besides a few little spats in the 1700-1800's, have been the best friends a Nation could have. We're with you.

 

[Hand Sword]

Honestly, I'm sick of all this crap from these sub humans! If our good and innocent are to suffer, then, there's should suffer with the loss of western lives and priviliges. They aren't rying to fit in, but, rather take over. This is a serious situation that the WORLD faces, inspite of the ligth views of some. If they are extreme as they are, I say the hell with PC and all that. Repatriate, Isolate, then eliminate!

 

[bydand]

About this issue, I will say the following.


There is a complete lack of perspective, on this issue, on this board. While real car bombs are killing American Soldiers, British Soldiers, and innocent Iraqis every week in Iraq, this incident should receive little or no coverage. And certainly not the breathless reporting it has been receiving in the news media in American.

Complete lack of perspective... How ironic you should use that phrase just before the drivel you went on to post. Lets see what your reaction would have been if that same exact package was parked outside your place of work or home.

I have been waiting a LONG time to use this smiley. :321:
Probably get another warning for it, but I'll take one to express that thought.

 

[Sukerkin]

I'm assuming that when it is reported that a mobile phone was the trigger that it was not simply lying there on the seat waiting for someone to dial it's number?

If it was then I guess our would-be terrorists don't watch Mythbusters.

I know this is an emotive issue, chaps, about people who have taken extreme actions but I think that perhaps we should beware of making extreme statements, especially those with a racial component, otherwise we may find that this thread gets itself locked.

We've had a lot of experience in this country dealing with terrorists and the effects of terror attacks, as Tez can well attest.

If it wasn't for the Gossip Machine, sorry News Service, fanning the fear every fifteen minutes, I think you'd find the reaction of people to be far more considered and less dramatically 'newsworthy' ... people afraid to go shopping indeed.

"Pshaw!"

 

[Brian R. VanCise]

ATTENTION ALL USERS:

SECOND AND FINAL MODERATOR WARNING

Please keep the discussion at a mature, respectful level. Please review our sniping policy http://www.martialtalk.com/forum/sho...d.php?p=427486. Feel free to use the Ignore feature to ignore members whose posts you do not wish to read (it is at the bottom of each member's profile). Thank you.

-Brian R. VanCise
-MartialTalk Super Moderator-

 

[jdinca]

I'm assuming that when it is reported that a mobile phone was the trigger that it was not simply lying there on the seat waiting for someone to dial it's number?

If it was then I guess our would-be terrorists don't watch Mythbusters.

I doubt that was the case but you need to right amount of oxygen to initiate combustion. Lacking that, it just isn't going to go. That's why it's possible to put out a cigarette in a container of gasoline, not enough oxygen...but I wouldn't advise doing this as an experiment.

This being the cause of the failure is pure speculation on my part.

 

[Tez3]

Just back from work, I've been chatting to the bomb disposal lads at lunch who were at Glasgow (in the nicest way I have to say they are all as mad as chocolate frogs) they were saying that this type of car bomb was first used in the USA in limos but it was also foiled there. I'm sure someone can find it online somewhere, New York perhaps?

There is a lot of givens in a situation like this, of course the media are going to make the most of it, that's their job, of course the governments are going to be all serious and issue us warnings to be vigilant, that's their job. Our job? to carry on normally! It's always been the Brits biggest virtue or annoyance depending on which side you are on, that they stubbornly and single mindedly listen to everything, take everything in and then carry on doing whatever they were doing anyway! There is a very big streak of contrariness in the British psyche that makes us dig our heels in and act even more normally than usual when these attacks etc happen. Hell we are probably the only people that celebrate something like the Dunkirk spirit which when you look at it properly was actually a rout but was turned into a victory by the people involved, no wonder people are confused by us.

Our troops, both American and British are paying a heavy price for fighting the terrorists. I have my views on the British govenment that got us into this mess but always my support for the troops is solid (for yours as well as ours) and I'll say there is no way the British public is going to fall apart and let done our troops who face far worse.

I'm not hugely or even very patriotic, I just like people whatever shape or form they come in, I like flirting with men, having laughs with girls, I worry about my children, about paying my bills, I love martial arts, grey days depress me, sunny days, kittens and children make me smile. There's more of course but with variations in that vein I'm everyman/woman. We have more in common than we have apart. Way to go us - the people!

 

[mrhnau]

Just back from work, I've been chatting to the bomb disposal lads at lunch who were at Glasgow (in the nicest way I have to say they are all as mad as chocolate frogs) they were saying that this type of car bomb was first used in the USA in limos but it was also foiled there. I'm sure someone can find it online somewhere, New York perhaps?

Interesting... we have both had attacks in various forms, and its frightening considering them, wether they be in the UK, here in the US or elsewhere.

It's amazing what a car loaded with nails and propane could do. Same thing with a few guys with box cutters (9/11) or some guy with a bunch of fertilizer (OKC bombing). The style of mayhem is not that important. It seems originality is on the rise.

Our troops, both American and British are paying a heavy price for fighting the terrorists. I have my views on the British govenment that got us into this mess but always my support for the troops is solid (for yours as well as ours) and I'll say there is no way the British public is going to fall apart and let done our troops who face far worse.

I agree, and I honestly think the same for the US troops and public. No matter what politicians are saying, the citizens here do love their troops and support them.

I'm not hugely or even very patriotic, I just like people whatever shape or form they come in, I like flirting with men, having laughs with girls, I worry about my children, about paying my bills, I love martial arts, grey days depress me, sunny days, kittens and children make me smile. There's more of course but with variations in that vein I'm everyman/woman. We have more in common than we have apart. Way to go us - the people!

A great attitude Stay safe, and keep us posted. I must agree! Way to go us! hehe