Bomb plot suspect arrested trying to catch flight to Dubai

[5-0 Kenpo]

Sounds like someone really got the US by the balls if it is not even allowed to explore the dubai / saudi arabia angle, if the terrorism is really not government supported.

I didn't say they don't explore it. What I am saying is that they don't talk to the press about it.

Kinda the same possible reasoning as to why the sections of the 9/11 Commision report about Saudi Arabia were not open to public consumption.

Personally, I think there is a basis in that theory which gave an incentive to invade Iraq. We might have realized that Saudi Arabia is not our friend, and sought to establish a significant stronghold in the region.

Once again, war is politics by other means.

 

[MJS]

I think there is a misunderstanding. I meant that in this case, the ploy was not prevented by vigilant citizenry (or DHS) but it was pure blind luck. People paying attention will only make a difference if there is something worth noticing. I would bet that the simple act of parking a car happens hundreds of thousands times per day someplace in NYC.

If someone parks his car someplace and goes out shopping or clubbing or whatever, that is perfectly normal, and would not cause anyone to think twice about it if there was nothing else noteworthy about the vehicle. If the person driving the car behaves normally and makes sure that the car is plain looking, it is virtually guaranteed that noone will notice it in time to prevent the attack.

But there was something worth noticing. IIRC, the guy who noticed the car said that he thought it was odd that it was parked there, and Omar said the same thing. Now, had this been in another area, where parking on the street in allowed, then yes, I'd say it'd be much harder, but not impossible. I say not impossible, because it is possible that someone may notice something out of the ordinary.

 

[cdunn]

I didn't say they don't explore it. What I am saying is that they don't talk to the press about it.

Kinda the same possible reasoning as to why the sections of the 9/11 Commision report about Saudi Arabia were not open to public consumption.

Personally, I think there is a basis in that theory which gave an incentive to invade Iraq. We might have realized that Saudi Arabia is not our friend, and sought to establish a significant stronghold in the region.

Once again, war is politics by other means.

More proof that an alternative to oil is desperately needed.

 

[MA-Caver]

Complain all you want that its about oil. Fine, whatever. But when the oil stops flowing and you have to hump 62 miles to work like I would have to do, it makes a big deal.

You (and everybody else) wouldn't HAVE to hump 62 miles to work if the technology for NON petroleum based product cars would be allowed to be mass produced in this (and every other country). But no, those guys at Shell, Exxon, Standard and all the others still want their cash cow to keep the flow into their pockets.
It's been LONG past the time where we would use electric, hydrogen and other alternate fuel vehicles on our roads.
So I won't complain how "it's about OIL" ... it's about MONEY!

 

[Archangel M]

Hydrogen..electric..ethanol..all require as much or MORE energy to produce the "fuel" than oil does.

The old "big oil is squashing fuel tech" meme is BS. If they could figure out how to produce hydrogen tech at a profit they would be cutting each others throats to corner the hydrogen fuel market.

 

[elder999]

Hydrogen..electric..ethanol..all require as much or MORE energy to produce the "fuel" than oil does.

The old "big oil is squashing fuel tech" meme is BS. If they could figure out how to produce hydrogen tech at a profit they would be cutting each others throats to corner the hydrogen fuel market.

South Africa has produced all it's gasoline and diesel fuel from coal and natural gas for more than 50 yrs., processes which are readily available, date back to before WWII, and are not carried out anywhere in the U.S.-chiefly because of the oil companies (though there are some environmental issues, they are not insurmountable.

 

[Bruno@MT]

South Africa has produced all it's gasoline and diesel fuel from coal and natural gas for more than 50 yrs., processes which are readily available, date back to before WWII, and are not carried out anywhere in the U.S.-chiefly because of the oil companies (though there are some environmental issues, they are not insurmountable.

Not only some environmental issues, but I would suspect that those technologies can in no way produce the amount of oil required by the rest of the world. I think that Africa probably uses very little oil compared to Industrialized countries.

Imo, the only reasonable alternative is to harvest solar energy on a large scale in such rich places (like deserts which are good for not much else) and then use that energy either directly on the grid, or use it to create hydrogen from water to power combustion engines. I don't yet believe in the spread of electric cars because of the battery issues.

 

[elder999]

Not only some environmental issues, but I would suspect that those technologies can in no way produce the amount of oil required by the rest of the world. I think that Africa probably uses very little oil compared to Industrialized countries..

1 ton of coal= 1.5 barrels of gasoline with the process as it currently exists.

THe U.S. has ENOURMOUS coal reserves: as of last year, the U.S. had 17.9 billion in recoverable reserves-that is to say,the amount that is available in mines that are currently being worked. The most recent estimate of total resources-all the coal in the ground, mineable or not- is 4 trillion tons- a great deal of this figure may not be recoverable with current mining practices, though. The best estimate of total recoverable coal is around 489 billion tons.

489000000000X1.5X55=40342500000000 gallons of gasoline

That's over 40 trillion gallons of gasoline.

Average annual gasoline usage in the U.S. is about 329 million barrels a year, or about 2.75 trillion gallons per year. So, worst case, the goal that we know we can currently get out of the ground represents nearly 15 years of Saudi-free, Venezuelan-free, Canadian-free, Kuwaiti-free, Iraqi-free, Irani-free oil-our own somewhat limited oil production in addition to this notwithstanding.

Best case, that 4 trillion tons, represents 120 years of gasoline.

Of course, we use a great deal of coal to make electricity, so both figures are optimistic, but one can see how the production of gasoline from coal, coupled with conservation, could not only wean us away from foreign oil dependency, but lower the price of foreign oil by decreasing that demand.

And yeah, the best thing to do is come up with something besides internal combustion-it's bad for the environment, anyway.....

 

[Bruno@MT]

Thanks for those numbers. I notice you mention gasoline specifically. How about all the other byproducts from oil, like plastic, diesel, kerosene, Sulphuric acid, and all the other stuff that our western society pretty much relies on?

I am also curious about the economic angle. Labour in Africa is cheap, and safety and environmental regulations are pretty much non existing. Would it still be affordable to implement the coal - > fuel process.

 

[elder999]

Thanks for those numbers. I notice you mention gasoline specifically. How about all the other byproducts from oil, like plastic, diesel, kerosene, Sulphuric acid, and all the other stuff that our western society pretty much relies on?

I am also curious about the economic angle. Labour in Africa is cheap, and safety and environmental regulations are pretty much non existing. Would it still be affordable to implement the coal - > fuel process.

IT's the country, South Africa. They did it because of sanctions imposed by apartheid. While labor was probably cheap, their safety and environmental regulations weren't "pretty much nonexisiting." Of course, the company that produces it is a government created entity, so.......

As for all the other byproducts from oil, the coal process can produce a variety of thos products:diesel, kerosene and H2SO4-I dunno about plastic, though I'm pretty sure the answer is yes....can't that be made from plants, though? The process itself is more than 80 years old-it was invented by the Germans for pretty much the same sort of reasons as South Africa's....there's a real interesting book called The Alchemy of Air which touches on it, while detailing the early twentieth century quest for man made fixed nitrogen....

 

[5-0 Kenpo]

You (and everybody else) wouldn't HAVE to hump 62 miles to work if the technology for NON petroleum based product cars would be allowed to be mass produced in this (and every other country). But no, those guys at Shell, Exxon, Standard and all the others still want their cash cow to keep the flow into their pockets.
It's been LONG past the time where we would use electric, hydrogen and other alternate fuel vehicles on our roads.
So I won't complain how "it's about OIL" ... it's about MONEY!

Don't get me wrong. I've been telling people that I know for YEARS that we have the answer to this problem. With a combination of technologies, we absolutely could wean ourselves off of oil or at least foreign oil.

But, for whatever reason, we aren't doing it. So, we go to the Middle East to change to political make-up of the region. I understand that it's government collusion with the oil industries, and others that are causing this problem.

But that's what happens when you let the government become involved in those enterprises, and then make it so you need millions of dollars to run an election campaign.

HUH! I guess that's why I'm for non-interference by the government to a large extent.