Perception of Tae Kwon Do a Problem?

[Hwoarang_tkd26]

Zepp, you stole my thread, I should have writen this. (just joking)

I know exectly what you mean, and yes it bothers me, maybe a little too much because I tend to defend the name TKD not only with words, but with my hands and feet as well (sometimes), only if the person trashing TKD is overly confident/cocky.
Then in that case it usually ends up in a rule-less sparring match, only so that I can humble this individual and give them a better knowledge of what TKD's capabilities are (note we aren't fighting, because I wont fight someone over something that stupid).
Also one thing that my TKD class does when we hold a local tornament, is that we invite other schools that are close to our town (that are not TKD) to our tornaments, which I think is great.
But for some reason the other schools dont ever show, exept the Shotokon class.

Shoot, me and a couple of my friends that study differents styles, picked out a certain Dojo in our erea (Im not saying what the name of it is) that is known to have the most dishonerable, cocky,"We are the best", and "My MA is better than yours, especially if it's TKD"-attitude with their instructors and students than any other dojo in my town.
So my two friends went to this dojo (politely) and asked if it was ok if we sceduled a time to spar with them(I couldn't come with them because something came up), the intsructor abliged.
And nothing was said about what style we (my two friends and I) study, or what school we come from, and I plan to keep it that way, all we said is that we have MA expereance, that is all.
So the date is set for us to spar with them, Im not sure when exactly, my friends have the time.

Anyways all this mumbo-jumbo that I have been talking about is just to show you all how much I dislike "Hot Shots", "Heman wannabe's", people that think they are "The Best", and people who slam other styles than there own especially if it's TKD.
I think that all MA styles are equal in their own element and need the proper respect that they deserve, I respect all MA styles why cant some people respect mine.

- Hwoarang_tkd26

 

[Mark70Z]

Big:

I don't know where I said that getting a BB gives you "special" powers to defend yourself. What I'm trying to get across is that once you get to the BB level you should be "able" to defend yourself. The person should know the basics (at least) and be able to punch and kick correctly. In the ATA schools I have gone to this just isn't the case. Like Marginal said to at least be competant in the art. I know there are a lot of great MA in the ATA, but it seems like the organization is going to the almighty buck.

 

[jakmak52]

There's a philosophy of "Contempt prior to Investigation":idunno:

 

[Miles]

<<Along those lines, if an org is awarding BB's in 1 1/2 years, but has brown belts opening schools, that would indicate that they don't even care about basic technical competency being a requirement for an instructor. Dunno how theyr'e going to turn out a BB that's anything but a joke with that kinda zippy turnaround.>>

I don't think is it important how long one trains to get black belt as much as how one trains.

If I have a student training 6 days per week, 2hrs per day, I have no problem awarding a black belt within 1.5 years. If they are training that hard and I am a competent instructor, my student should also be competent technically.

Along the same lines though, I agree that a brown belt, (or even a first or second degree black belt for that matter) should be anything but an assistant instructor under the guidance of a more experienced instructor.

Miles

 

[rattlerbrat]

However, as stated before, in traditional Tae Kwon Do things are different. And don't kid yourself. Traditional TKD is very hard to find because of the way it is practiced. Not as much of a market for that.

I'm sure this is very true. Kenpo is another art that isn't very flashy or Hollywood-looking. I'm annoyed with people who think that because I don't (okay, CAN'T) and wouldn't do a double spinning side back triple kick o'Power Ranger against an opponent, then I'm somehow a "weak" martial arts student. I think some people tend to sign up for TKD (or worse, their children) thinking that they'll be doing flashy aerials in no time, not realizing that, like with any art, you have to start with the BASICS. And it's only once you've got the basics down that you can get to the more advanced stuff. Some people watch too much television!

Our dojo holds sparring every Friday night, and we've had some TKD students come in and spar with our kenpo students. TWDers have nothing but respect from me, personally. (In fact, I fully intend to study taekwondo in the future, as I think it would greatly improve my kicking skills.) I heard (I believe it was a brown belt) berating taekwondo once and Master Ingle really chewed him out! Then we all got a lesson about respecting other arts. I don't know who these so-called "ballerina" TWDers who can't throw punches or elbows are - I've never met them!

 

[Adept]

I don't know who these so-called "ballerina" TWDers who can't throw punches or elbows are - I've never met them!

I have. I train with some. First, let me start by saying I have trained in TKD for over eight years, and have a 1st dan Black Belt (for what its worth...) so I am not prejudiced against TKD in any way. But...

It is a simple reality that you will fight the way you train. Most TKD schools do not train to fight on the ground (or even defend against takedowns) or to fight at very close quarters or in the clinche. I have been fortunate to recieve training from jujitsu, karate and aikido experts as well as my TKD. I no longer follow the TKD training regime, instead incorporating everything I know (and think is effective) hence why I refer to my-self as a MMA.

I personally know BBs and very high coloured belts who have a very limited range of capabilities. It is these people who give TKD a bad name. The actual syllabus of TKD is part of the problem. If you are teaching things not in the traditional syllabus (such as how to apply an armbar, or how to shoot for someones legs) then you are not teaching TKD anymore, but a form of MMA. To be honest, most schools teach some kind of MMA, whatever name they want to give it. I find the almost childish obsession with names quite entertaining. Who cares what your style is called, or what their style is called? Why can't we just be concerned with how effective our techniques are, regardless of what we call them?

 

[hongkongfooey]

Why worry about what everyone else thinks? Just do your thing and be happy.

HKF

 

[Miles]

Why worry about what everyone else thinks? Just do your thing and be happy.

HKF

Welcome to MT Hongkongfooey!

Totally agree. You can't change anyone else's perceptions of TKD or anything else on this forum. All you can do is express your opinion and the experiences which help form that opinion.

Good luck to all in their training!

Miles

 

[Miles]

The actual syllabus of TKD is part of the problem. If you are teaching things not in the traditional syllabus (such as how to apply an armbar, or how to shoot for someones legs) then you are not teaching TKD anymore, but a form of MMA. To be honest, most schools teach some kind of MMA, whatever name they want to give it.

I respectfully disagree Adept. I don't think it's the syllabus so much as the instructor's lack of knowledge. Armbars, breakfalls, takedowns are all part of TKD's syllabus.

My perception of the problem is that many master instructors either don't teach this material at all or only teach it after black belt. Then these black belts, (who've not had an opportunity to digest this material) go out on their own and teach. Progressively, the art becomes diluted.

Miles

 

[arnisador]

In the States, TKD is a victim of its own commercial success, I think. Between the Olympics with all the media coverage bringing in would-be athletes, and the organizations's success in opening full-time schools which leads to an emphasis on teaching kids , you see a lot of schools that focus on the athletic aspects at least as much as the martial aspects. That means lots of high kicking for sport and for advertising, and so on.

I've known TKD clubs that are very self-defense oriented and that have a good mix of feet/hands/locks/etc., and I know in Korea it's taught differently, but most of the schools I see are not very self-defense oriented, in my opinion. I'm sorry to say that I don't usually recommend the art to those looking for self-defense, because it seems so unlikely that they'd find a TKD school that really does that well.

 

[Marginal]

Granted, the sporting side of TKD has drawn the bulk of the attention. (Afterall, it's shown in snippets at 3AM when the Olympics roll around. Big time...) But I'd still think that has more merit than the MA school down the block from me with a painted window that reads:

"Karate, Kung Fu, Tai Chi, Women's Self-defense!"

Least you're still getting something focused with a sporting TKD approach.

 

[pnoy_kickfighter]

Some people judge TKD because they may not know what is going on in our dojangs. I think it all really matters on how one trains and strives for excellence. If one just wants to be seen whup some butt on the tourneys then maybe that person should focus on scoring points but if a person wants to survive in a street fight then that person should practice more on street self defense but retaining the flavor of true TKD. Sometimes in also depends on schools and mainly teachers.



Sorry.....some of the things i said didnt relate to the topic.

 

[Han-Mi]

it is annoying, but it just makes me strive harder to prove them all wrong

 

[bignick]

People train for different things...

I know I'm never going to have the speed to compete on any relatively high level of TKD, I've known this for a long time...and that suits me just fine. Have long lost the desire for competition.

I still train for speed because it is important, but my nickname isn't going to change from Big Nick to Greased Lightning anytime soon. Because of this my training has focused mostly on developing the power of my kicks and strikes to the point where it doesn't matter if my opponent was a split second faster and managed to get a block up. I want that blocking extremity to shatter. Of course, they could evade...but don't tell them that. To be able to defend yourself you need to shore up your weaknesses and focus on your strengths. From my perspective, competition TKD has focused on developing speed beyond all else. And that's not my game. It doesn't matter how many times you hit your opponent if they don't feel it. Especially if there is no corner judges around to tell your attacker that they lost and need to leave now. I don't plan on throwing alternating roundhouses at an attacking opponent, I look for that roundhouse that sounds like a gun went off and sends my hogu wearing opponent collapsing to the floor.

 

[terryl965]

Very well put big nick and remember tournament fighters may be about speed but the knock out blow will last forever.

 

[pnoy_kickfighter]

Very well put big nick and remember tournament fighters may be about speed but the knock out blow will last forever.

The truth is beautiful. The knockout blow can help you survive.

 

[TKDKid]

You know, one of my instructors said to me that part of the reason that TKD's reputation is the way it is is because it got so popular that everyone started training to beat it.

 

[pnoy_kickfighter]

You know, one of my instructors said to me that part of the reason that TKD's reputation is the way it is is because it got so popular that everyone started training to beat it.

Its logical and could be true. Street fighters also doesnt want to get topped off by martial artists so they beat up young martial artist begginers to make it sound bad. But you know that they wouldnt touch experienced black belts.

 

[sifu Adams]

As I read thru the thread I learned some new points about TKD and everyone reinforced some bliefs I had as well. When it comes to sparing I tell my kung fu group no matter what a person knows or don't know you have to respect the persons strenghts before you throw the first attack or counter. I use TKD as a example. I tell them "TKD loves to kick to the head, they are good at it, and you better repect it because they will kick your head off if they get the chance" I have ran across TKD students in the past and some are vary good and some not. when people call and ask me what is the diffence in TKD and my Kung fu I tell them my Perception. (please correct me if I am missing something or I am wrong.) i never put the any system down but for the sake of this thread I will be a little more blunt.
The problem I see is the sport TKD that most people I see do, dose not seem to be well rounded like my KF. TKD seem to be good if you are fighting someone of your size or smaller. I am 5'6" tall if I am trading kicks with a 6'7"guy it would seem that his leg would reach me three days before mine would reach him. Another probem I see is that when sparing a TKD student if I throw a dragon sweep, or drop to a real low stance or even to my back, most (that do not have other MA back ground) seem to be surpised and lost in what to do. Another question I have is when it comes to forms/katas. I have been to a lot of mixed MA tournaments and seen a lot (not all) of TKD forms. the forms I seen don't seem to have a lot of kicking or kicking combonation that I seen the students use during the sparring.

 

[TKDKid]

Well, I have to respectfully disagree, TKD is good if you're fighting someone larger than you are too. You just have to use a different approach. We had a guy come in to our class that had taken TKD from my instructor years ago but had to quit when he was an orange belt. Ten years later he comes back, still an orange belt, with better than orange belt skill, and I am a purple belt. He's 6'5", 250lbs, I'm 6'1", 140 lbs...quite a difference. Now, weight makes a difference in any art, I don't care what Yoda says...size matters does! Dude knocked me down three times the first time I sparred with him. I had never sparred with anyone larger than myself before, but after that first match with him I learned how I needed to change my game in order to fight someone larger than myself, and now when I spar with him he doesn't hardly get anything in on me.

It really just takes a different approach. The guys that train just for sport probably train with guys their own size because that's who they'll be competing against. Also, in self defense, I would kick someone's knees, that'll take em out in a hurry, but that isn't exactly something you can do at a tournament.