Martial Talk Project - Tae Kwon Do Needs Help!

[Jonathan Randall]

These are my most recent changes (in bold, italics and highlighted in pink). TKD seniors, please check to see if my take on Taek Kyon is correct:

Developed under the leadership of General Choi Hong Hi in 1955, this highly competitive South Korean Martial Art was created from the ancient art of Taek Kyon and Shotokan Karate - although the level of contribution of techniques from Taek Kyon is disputed. It is more likely, in the view of many Tae Kwon Do historians, thatTaek Kyon had more influence on Tae Kwon Do's propensity for kicking rather then contributing specific techniques. Tae Kwon Do focuses on high, strong and spinning kicks and strikes. Introduced into the Olympics in 1988. Considered to be the most practiced Martial Art today.

 

[Jonathan Randall]

Some questions:
- Is it incorrect? In doubt? Debated?
--What are the 'alternatives'?

What are the other organizations that exist for TKD?


You're permitted to change others content, but it's preferred that if you do so, that it's based on verifiable and credible information. (You'll see me and a few others use those terms alot.)

Good points. Gen. Choi's founding of the art of TKD is definitely in dispute and theoretically incorrect. He led the unification of the post-war Korean Karate styles into the new art of TKD. I compromised and edited the original entry to read: "developed under the leadership of General Choi". That statement itself could be considered controversial in itself by some, but he did have a pivotal role in the development of TKD and it would be political to cut him out or reduce his role substantially.

On edit: it's great to see so many knowledgeable MT members contributing! We now need to add a section on forms. I haven't because I'm only familiar with the ITF forms (and at one time, ATA forms to first black).

 

[Zepp]

As far as the history goes, I think The Modern History of TaeKwonDo, by Won Sik Kang and Kyong Myong Lee, is the best possible resource. There's an abridged version of it here: http://www.martialartsresource.com/korean/korframe.htm.

(Because of the way the frames are set up, I can't link directly to the page, so you'll need to scroll down and click on the link.)

I'd like to write and submit a short paraphrased history of TKD, but if someone wants to beat me to it, go right ahead. Personally, I think the Wiki entry needs to have some mention of the early kwans.

Edit: I found a direct link to the page: http://www.martialartsresource.com/anonftp/pub/the_dojang/digests/history.html.

 

[arnisador]

I like how the entry handles the Taek Kyon contribution.

 

[Gemini]

Developed under the leadership of General Choi Hong Hi in 1955, this highly competitive South Korean Martial Art was created from the ancient art of Taek Kyon and Shotokan Karate - although the level of contribution of techniques from Taek Kyon is disputed. It is more likely, in the view of many Tae Kwon Do historians, thatTaek Kyon had more influence on Tae Kwon Do's propensity for kicking rather then contributing specific techniques.

Couple o' things.

North Korea practices ITF style, and the ATA is American only. How's this.

Developed under the leadership of General Choi Hong Hi in 1955, this highly competitive KoreanMartial Art's origins are cloudy due to the Japanese occupation of Korea between 1910 and 1945. It's roots however, are generally believed to be based in the ancient Korean art of Taek Kyon and Japanese Shotokan Karate - How much either art contributed and what other arts held influence in its development remains disputed to this day.

Because its origins are so disputable, it leaves a little more room. Waddaya think?

Depending on how deep into this you want to get, we could timeline it from the original KKA to the WTF, ITF, ATA and so on. We would need to separate out the Kukkiwon unless this is done because it doesn't hold sway over either the ITF or ATA.

 

[terryl965]

Developed under the leadership of General Choi Hong Hi in 1955, this highly competitive South Korean Martial Art was created from the ancient art of Taek Kyon and Shotokan Karate - although the level of contribution of techniques from Taek Kyon is disputed. It is more likely, in the view of many Tae Kwon Do historians, thatTaek Kyon had more influence on Tae Kwon Do's propensity for kicking rather then contributing specific techniques.

Couple o' things.

North Korea practices ITF style, and the ATA is American only. How's this.

Developed under the leadership of General Choi Hong Hi in 1955, this highly competitive KoreanMartial Art's origins are cloudy due to the Japanese occupation of Korea between 1910 and 1945. It's roots however, are generally believed to be based in the ancient Korean art of Taek Kyon and Japanese Shotokan Karate - How much either art contributed and what other arts held influence in its development remains disputed to this day.

Because its origins are so disputable, it leaves a little more room. Waddaya think?

Depending on how deep into this you want to get, we could timeline it from the original KKA to the WTF, ITF, ATA and so on. We would need to separate out the Kukkiwon unless this is done because it doesn't hold sway over either the ITF or ATA.

Gemininsounds good to me what about everyone else if so make the changes.
Terry

 

[terryl965]

The kukkiwon needs to stay but we also need to put info. about the original Kwan that was part of the beginning as well, what do you ladys and gentleman believe.
Terry

 

[Gemini]

The kukkiwon needs to stay but we also need to put info. about the original Kwan that was part of the beginning as well, what do you ladys and gentleman believe.
Terry

I agree, given it's the "official" controling body of TKD, but then the ITF and ATA will require the same unless you wanted to point out that fact alone, specify other orgs don't recognise them and leave it at that. Such as:

The Headquarters for modern day TaeKwonDo, is the Kukkiwon, based in Seoul, Korea and recognized world wide. Established in 1972, Kukkiwon then organized The World TaeKwonDo Federation that same year.

Then, if you want to add the same for ATA and ITF.... just thinking out loud here...

General Choi became disheartened by the visionists of the KKA and defected, starting the ITF...add more here... I'm pretty vague on the exact times and dates but if no one from the ITF chimes in, I could finish it up if you like where I'm going with this.

 

[arnisador]

I don't think any disinterested party believes that Taek Kyon was a significant contribution to the art other than that the Shotokan was modified to make it appear more like what they thought Taek Kyon looked like. Isn't that so? The usual nationalistic refusal for any Oriental nation to acknowledge contributions from another, as with Japan and China too?

 

[bignick]

I like where this is going and the lack of politics showing up...I'll try to contribute here and there as I have time. Let's keep it up...

 

[Gemini]

I like where this is going and the lack of politics showing up...I'll try to contribute here and there as I have time. Let's keep it up...

Trying to word things in a way that gives an accurate description while at the same time avoiding conflict yet still leaving room for anyone's beliefs to be entertained is a bit tricky. I agree, I think we're gettin' it...

Given your knowledge of the art and your ability to write, hurry up every chance you get!

 

[bignick]

I think every possible effort needs to be made to give as realistic a viewpoint of the art and it's history as possible. No 2000 year old lines...were people fighting using their hands and feet in what is now known as Korea 2000 years ago? Absolutely...does it have anything to do with Tae Kwon Do? I doubt it...

I'll try to contribute where I think I can help, but I'm just a whippersnapper here and my knowledge and experience pales a bit in comparison with people like Miles and Terry around.

 

[Jonathan Randall]

Yes, I think we from MT have done a good job of making this as non-political an entry as possible. I went on tonight and removed "This article is a stub" because it no longer is. Good work all. :asian:

Now we need, IMO:

1. Forms information
2. Kwan information
3. Someway to make it clear that ITF and ATA are not under the Kukkiwon without making it appear that this either makes these groups illegitimate or in any way diminishes the very real influence of the Kukkiwon.

 

[terryl965]

I agree, given it's the "official" controling body of TKD, but then the ITF and ATA will require the same unless you wanted to point out that fact alone, specify other orgs don't recognise them and leave it at that. Such as:

The Headquarters for modern day TaeKwonDo, is the Kukkiwon, based in Seoul, Korea and recognized world wide. Established in 1972, Kukkiwon then organized The World TaeKwonDo Federation that same year.

Then, if you want to add the same for ATA and ITF.... just thinking out loud here...

General Choi became disheartened by the visionists of the KKA and defected, starting the ITF...add more here... I'm pretty vague on the exact times and dates but if no one from the ITF chimes in, I could finish it up if you like where I'm going with this.

No gemini your right we need to include the other orgs. just to be far, The ITF I can but the ATA I'm not to familar with.
Terry

 

[terryl965]

I think every possible effort needs to be made to give as realistic a viewpoint of the art and it's history as possible. No 2000 year old lines...were people fighting using their hands and feet in what is now known as Korea 2000 years ago? Absolutely...does it have anything to do with Tae Kwon Do? I doubt it...

I'll try to contribute where I think I can help, but I'm just a whippersnapper here and my knowledge and experience pales a bit in comparison with people like Miles and Terry around.

Yes Big Nick your right But without you and the younger guy the Art cannot be, we need input from everybody. To really make this work.
Terry

 

[Miles]

It's coming along, albeit slowly. Too late for me to think coherently..will work on it a bit tomorrow if I get some time. It's a fine start.

Miles

 

[rmclain]

Yes, I think we from MT have done a good job of making this as non-political an entry as possible. I went on tonight and removed "This article is a stub" because it no longer is. Good work all. :asian:

Now we need, IMO:

1. Forms information
2. Kwan information
3. Someway to make it clear that ITF and ATA are not under the Kukkiwon without making it appear that this either makes these groups illegitimate or in any way diminishes the very real influence of the Kukkiwon.

One of your best non-political resources of the early days kwans (especially Chang Moo Kwan and Kang Duk Won) is Kim Pyung Soo. He has openly taught and discussed what was being taught during those early days (1950 on). He is not a member of ITF, WTF or anything else, though some of his junior friends and students went on to be on the board of the WTF (example: Kum Hong Lee).

Kim Pyung Soo was very well known in S. Korea during the 1960's because he was the only Korean correspondent for Black Belt Magazine. He is very open about the Japanese influence on the arts taught in Korea following WWII. His e-mail is: [email protected]

http://www.kimsookarate.com/gallery-old-days/1stdemo.html

R. McLain

 

[Miles]

Sort of off topic, but Black Belt magazine recently ran several of GM Kim Pyung Soo's early articles. Very neat with incredible photos!

Miles