Klondike93
Master Black Belt
I think it's from a posting about how he got the SGM tag, which I don't think was ever answered.
:asian:
Chuck
:asian:
Chuck
Passing of A Kenpo Senior Instructor
- Thread starter Bob Hubbard
- Start date
Goldendragon7
Grandmaster
I only met him a couple of times but it truly is sad to see another of ours go, regardless of wether or not you agree with all he did!
May he rest in Peace...:asian:
May he rest in Peace...:asian:
Goldendragon7
Grandmaster
Well, thats not entirely true. Al Tracy "HAS" tried to distance himself and tried to develop what he terms HIS OWN ART, but the fact remains if you study the material it is unquestionably Parker in origin. He really had no choice but to acknowledge Ed Parker as his teacher, there were too many people that know the truth. Many bad things have been said in the past.
The good news is ...... it's the past and most realize what happened and are trying to move on in spite of any misunderstandings, bad feelings, lies, etc. Most just want to learn and improve their arts (whatever they call them today).
Ed Parkers legacy and techincal material will live forever on its own merit but Al Tracy certainly had a huge part in the "spread" of the Art and should be credited with that "major" roll, without him the art of American Kenpo would certainly be much much smaller than it is today.
:asian:
The good news is ...... it's the past and most realize what happened and are trying to move on in spite of any misunderstandings, bad feelings, lies, etc. Most just want to learn and improve their arts (whatever they call them today).
Ed Parkers legacy and techincal material will live forever on its own merit but Al Tracy certainly had a huge part in the "spread" of the Art and should be credited with that "major" roll, without him the art of American Kenpo would certainly be much much smaller than it is today.
:asian:
Goldendragon7
Grandmaster
I thought the SGM comment was aimed at Ed Parker not McSweeney...... did I miss something?
Goldendragon7
Grandmaster
I dunno either lol
:idunno:
:idunno:
Goldendragon7
Grandmaster
Is this a new section......? If so, great idea!!:asian:
Goldendragon7
Grandmaster
I don't want to read about anyone I know for a long time.
:asian:
:asian:
T
tunetigress
Guest
From what I can see the problems are more a result of present day bravado, not necessarily a personal thing between Mr. Tracy and Mr. Parker, both of whom have made incredible contributions to the Art. Respectfully, _(_)_ Tune
Dave Simmons
Green Belt
This is directed at Gou...
You are such a doubting Gou at times. Although I can understand your hesitation regarding the death of SGM McSweeney. Was it last year somebody indicated Jim Tracy died without check it out?
Yeah, Al Tracy is opinated but inaccurate, no.
Peace,
Dave Simmons
You are such a doubting Gou at times. Although I can understand your hesitation regarding the death of SGM McSweeney. Was it last year somebody indicated Jim Tracy died without check it out?
Yeah, Al Tracy is opinated but inaccurate, no.
Peace,
Dave Simmons
Dave Simmons
Green Belt
Hell the man was told , study Kenpo Karate from SGM Parker! He was totally into Kenpo. He always honored SGM Parker he had his permission to spread the Kenpo word. And just like most Kenpoist he personalized it. Over the years the end result produced the K.I.S.S. principle within his organization. He was a pioneer for Kenpo in Ireland, the East Coast USA and anywhere he lived.
His Kenpo principles I totally agreed with...power and speed based. If your attacked drop the attacker fast if you are knocked down get up don't stay on the ground stand up and strike.
As far as Al Tracy is concerned well McSweeney shared with me a nice little story. From time to time Ed Parker Studio in San Francisco would be visited by people who would challenge Parker. One particular night a Savate practitioner challenged Parker. Well, according to McSweeney, Parker said to Al Tracy it's your turn...The Savate guy squared off with Al Tracy . The Savate guy threw a front (wheel) roundhouse kick to Al's head Al met it with an inward block and broke the guys leg.
Lastly, you mentioned not hearing a lot of positive things about AL Tracy well I always consider the source(s). If it came from Parkers 1st generation (late 50's) that has merit. Anything later than that is not clear cut.
Just my opinion Gou also, the judo period with Parker (according to his real old students) he didn't like doing breakfalls and rolling. He preference later would be a "striker".
Peace,
Dave Simmons
His Kenpo principles I totally agreed with...power and speed based. If your attacked drop the attacker fast if you are knocked down get up don't stay on the ground stand up and strike.
As far as Al Tracy is concerned well McSweeney shared with me a nice little story. From time to time Ed Parker Studio in San Francisco would be visited by people who would challenge Parker. One particular night a Savate practitioner challenged Parker. Well, according to McSweeney, Parker said to Al Tracy it's your turn...The Savate guy squared off with Al Tracy . The Savate guy threw a front (wheel) roundhouse kick to Al's head Al met it with an inward block and broke the guys leg.
Lastly, you mentioned not hearing a lot of positive things about AL Tracy well I always consider the source(s). If it came from Parkers 1st generation (late 50's) that has merit. Anything later than that is not clear cut.
Just my opinion Gou also, the judo period with Parker (according to his real old students) he didn't like doing breakfalls and rolling. He preference later would be a "striker".
Peace,
Dave Simmons
Dave Simmons
Green Belt
Hi Chuck,
I will put this response in very simple terms. Parker experienced a number set backs in the 60's. The last major one was with the Tracy's (Al & Jim) Will was not a factor. Basically the Tracy Brothers wanted to modernize the way students were taught(private & groups) with the help of Tom Connors etc. Parker had lost in previous years a number of his top Black Belts to Jimmy Wing Woo. This exodus was due to a disagreement over what was to be included in Secrets of Chinese Karate. The two parted ways, however many higher ranked Parker students were receiving lesson from Woo. When he left they left...
SGM Parker didn't necessarily disagree with the Tracy's innovation. The issue was involved, who had permission, who would run it etc. etc. I overheard a couple of "heated" discussions between Parker and Al Tracy. It definitely was a power struggle!
For what its worth, I never heard Al bad mouth his instructor, SGM Parker. In fact, many of us joined the IKKA, we did the Kenpo creed at every workout. We were then and today proud of our lineage to SGM Parker.
Hope this helps,
Dave Simmons
I will put this response in very simple terms. Parker experienced a number set backs in the 60's. The last major one was with the Tracy's (Al & Jim) Will was not a factor. Basically the Tracy Brothers wanted to modernize the way students were taught(private & groups) with the help of Tom Connors etc. Parker had lost in previous years a number of his top Black Belts to Jimmy Wing Woo. This exodus was due to a disagreement over what was to be included in Secrets of Chinese Karate. The two parted ways, however many higher ranked Parker students were receiving lesson from Woo. When he left they left...
SGM Parker didn't necessarily disagree with the Tracy's innovation. The issue was involved, who had permission, who would run it etc. etc. I overheard a couple of "heated" discussions between Parker and Al Tracy. It definitely was a power struggle!
For what its worth, I never heard Al bad mouth his instructor, SGM Parker. In fact, many of us joined the IKKA, we did the Kenpo creed at every workout. We were then and today proud of our lineage to SGM Parker.
Hope this helps,
Dave Simmons
Dave Simmons
Green Belt
I just learned about an interview back in September with SGM John McSweeney.
check www.kungfu.org It's long but informative...
Regards,
Dave Simmons
check www.kungfu.org It's long but informative...
Regards,
Dave Simmons
Dave Simmons
Green Belt
In the shadow of SGM John McSweeney passing. A number of Kenpo folks in the Chicago and surrounding area are encouraged to join us this Saturday at White Tiger Kenpo, Senior Instructor Tom Savianno dojo and student of McSweeney will host a small workout.
If you are able to attend please e-mail ASAP! Space is limited. The location is: White Tiger Kenpo 823 S. Route 53 Addison, IL phone (630)495-1711. Time: 4pm.
Peace,
Dave Simmons
:asian:
If you are able to attend please e-mail ASAP! Space is limited. The location is: White Tiger Kenpo 823 S. Route 53 Addison, IL phone (630)495-1711. Time: 4pm.
Peace,
Dave Simmons
:asian:
Goldendragon7
Grandmaster
In Spirit I guess! :asian:
Dave Simmons
Green Belt
Yeah, I know what you mean. Dan Farmer cannot attend either. In previous conversations you and I have had...these "get togethers" have to start some place. Although the Chicago meeting will be modest. It is a start! Hopefully other areas of the country will do the same. These get togethers will help foster more understand between all Kenpo practitioners. Just my opinion!
Peace,
Dave Simmons
Peace,
Dave Simmons
K
Kirk
Guest
I agree. I know something like this is a heck of an undertaking,
both financially, and with one's personal time. But they can
sure propogate into something really cool, and fortunate to all
involved. There are traditional gatherings that started long ago
and I'm assuming that the word about them was passed via
word of mouth, or mail outs. Whenever I was involved in
organizations in the past (non m.a. related) a lot of people
would BEG for a mail out, and the end result was that some got
them, and some didn't, and each year, the same story would
apply.
We're all in a new situation now. Relationships with people
you've never met are happening quite frequently on mediums
such as this, chat rooms, and web pages. Collectively, it's
a strong wealth of knowledge. If I were ever able to put
together a meeting, camp out, all crash at my place, whatever
with just the new "cyber friends" that I've met online:
1) it'd be some SERIOUS fun
2) I and my friends at the school whereI train would gain a HUGE
WEALTH of knowledge in a short time
3) Wouldn't make a dime off of it. ... it'd be in the name of learning
and fellowship.
If such an event were scheduled at a specific time every year,
the event would just grow and grow. Course I'm talking all
theory here, but that's what I'd like to think
both financially, and with one's personal time. But they can
sure propogate into something really cool, and fortunate to all
involved. There are traditional gatherings that started long ago
and I'm assuming that the word about them was passed via
word of mouth, or mail outs. Whenever I was involved in
organizations in the past (non m.a. related) a lot of people
would BEG for a mail out, and the end result was that some got
them, and some didn't, and each year, the same story would
apply.
We're all in a new situation now. Relationships with people
you've never met are happening quite frequently on mediums
such as this, chat rooms, and web pages. Collectively, it's
a strong wealth of knowledge. If I were ever able to put
together a meeting, camp out, all crash at my place, whatever
with just the new "cyber friends" that I've met online:
1) it'd be some SERIOUS fun
2) I and my friends at the school whereI train would gain a HUGE
WEALTH of knowledge in a short time
3) Wouldn't make a dime off of it. ... it'd be in the name of learning
and fellowship.
If such an event were scheduled at a specific time every year,
the event would just grow and grow. Course I'm talking all
theory here, but that's what I'd like to think
Goldendragon7
Grandmaster
I hear the terms "wealth of knowledge" but many want it for nothing.
Some must understand that for many of us, this is our livelihood ~ and to be asked to give away the only thing we have (our knowledge and advice) is like asking the grocer to have a free food bizarre so we can enjoy the friendship of the event.
Now I am all for the realistic sharing of Kenpo knowledge but leave off the emphasis "free". If I choose to teach for free then its my choice but I don't want to be expected to "give" my house and children's future away. I need to eat also.
I think if you read this forum or others that I have posted on ...... I feel that I have personally been more than generous with material and such. I know I can't speak for others and I won't, but that's how I feel.
Be realistic and fair.
:asian:
Some must understand that for many of us, this is our livelihood ~ and to be asked to give away the only thing we have (our knowledge and advice) is like asking the grocer to have a free food bizarre so we can enjoy the friendship of the event.
Now I am all for the realistic sharing of Kenpo knowledge but leave off the emphasis "free". If I choose to teach for free then its my choice but I don't want to be expected to "give" my house and children's future away. I need to eat also.
I think if you read this forum or others that I have posted on ...... I feel that I have personally been more than generous with material and such. I know I can't speak for others and I won't, but that's how I feel.
Be realistic and fair.
:asian:
K
Kirk
Guest
I expect to get paid for my time, and can certainly understand
that you expect to get paid for yours. Yet for myself, I have
a lot to learn, and for others, they have a lot to gain by teaching.
A 1st degree b.b. gifted at teaching yet not a proffesional martial
artist would be a wealth of knowledge to me at this point. Hell,
I'd be happy to hang out with a bunch of orange belts that
would want to kick it for a few hours at a time, working on
techniques, forms, whatever.
That you do. I've heard about your teachings and passion for
it from many others. But you don't come cheap, either. (again
not saying that you're not worth 150% of it). But my point in
my previous post was that organizing a "get together" or
"event" and bringing in men of your stature costs money. If you
start off small, then in a short amount of time, what started off
as a group of kenpoists that are friends ranging in belt levels
getting together to party, workout, discuss and drown ourselves
in kenpo for a few days, can grow into an annual event. Could
potentially be a national event where we could bring in all the
"top dogs" of EPAK. I know that's pipe dreaming, but that
doesn't mean it's impossible.
As it stands right now, I'm sure there's a seminar, weekend
convention or campout, etc, where I can pay a reasonable
amount and steal quite a bit of knowledge from you. I sooo
look forward to attending these events in my kenpo journey.
There's some less well known high ranking martial artists that
might enjoy "hanging with the guys" cooking over a fire, drinking
some brews and kickin' the hell out of each other.
I'm a computer professional by trade. There's been quite a
few guys at my kenpo school that ask me for help with their
home PC's. A couple times they've asked me over to help them.
We workout a little, they offer me something to eat, and I fix
whatever's wrong with their computer. I'm not Bill Gates, Steve
Wozniak, or a pioneer in computers. I'm glad to help these
guys with what I know. So maybe offering a fun weekend to
a 3rd, 4th degree b.b. could result in something similar???
I think I'm being redundant now. I'm not always confident in
my ability to relate what's going on in my head, so sometimes
I'll try to make my point more than once
I couldn't agree more! I sure hope that you don't feel that the
gift you give on these forums are being taken for granted!
It's certainly not by me, please believe that!
I guess it is just a b.s. fantasy, but I still think there's some
validity there. As for fair .. I hope I didn't sound demeaning
or insulting in any way, it was definitely not my intention, sir.
:asian:
Goldendragon7
Grandmaster
Nice post Kirk and a good reflection of your feelings. I do disagree with one area.........
To quote Kirk.......
"I've heard about your teachings and passion for it from many others. But you don't come cheap, either. (again not saying that you're not worth 150% of it)"
I don't know who you have talked to but my fees are well below any of the others of Similar or lesser knowledge. That's my problem. I'm too easy. I don't like to be cheated or lied to, that I will say, those that have, know well how I feel and will never have a 2nd opportunity (I have a good and long memory) but I have learned not to put myself in bad situations.
As to the passion on Kenpo, well I can't control myself. If you get me started ..... it's hard to slow me down. I Love it, and if fueled by a serious group, get way too excited about the Art, I have done 8 + hour seminars (when it was a scheduled 1 1/2 hour workshop). lol
Mr. Parker always taught me .... "leave them more than satisfied but hungry".
:asian:
To quote Kirk.......
"I've heard about your teachings and passion for it from many others. But you don't come cheap, either. (again not saying that you're not worth 150% of it)"
I don't know who you have talked to but my fees are well below any of the others of Similar or lesser knowledge. That's my problem. I'm too easy. I don't like to be cheated or lied to, that I will say, those that have, know well how I feel and will never have a 2nd opportunity (I have a good and long memory) but I have learned not to put myself in bad situations.
As to the passion on Kenpo, well I can't control myself. If you get me started ..... it's hard to slow me down. I Love it, and if fueled by a serious group, get way too excited about the Art, I have done 8 + hour seminars (when it was a scheduled 1 1/2 hour workshop). lol
Mr. Parker always taught me .... "leave them more than satisfied but hungry".
:asian:
K
Kirk
Guest
Well then .. what are your rates? I don't control who my
instructor decides to host, but he told me he's open to
requests. I can pass on the info to him, and beg him to
bring you in.
If you don't want to discuss that openly, you can email me
at kirknchristy@sbcglobal.net . Have you ever been to
the Alamo? It's highly over rated, but you'll at least be able
to say ya been there. :rofl:
instructor decides to host, but he told me he's open to
requests. I can pass on the info to him, and beg him to
bring you in.
If you don't want to discuss that openly, you can email me
at kirknchristy@sbcglobal.net . Have you ever been to
the Alamo? It's highly over rated, but you'll at least be able
to say ya been there. :rofl:
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