Parker/Tracy 32/24/16 Technique curriculum history

[Kenpodoc]

We follow Mr. Wedlakes curriculum. It is my understanding that he got it from Mr. Parker in the late 1980's. (I don't know the details of this interchange.) We have the following number of techniques per belt.
yellow 10
orange 12
purple 12
blue 16
green 20
Brown III 20
Brown II 20
Brown I 20
Black 20

This system allows quicker initial progression and more material after the student is hooked.

It is my impression that Mr. Parker had not settled on any one curriculum when he tragically died. The problem is balancing motivation with adequate learning.

Respectfully,

Jeff

 

[cdhall]

FYI.
I've posted this before but I guess it fits in here rather well.
Some info on Mr. Duffy's 16 technique curriculum is here
http://www.akfkenpo.com/curriculum/index.html

I just got some more info on this myself recently I was not clear on some of its development, but this overview is pretty thorough I think.
:asian:

 

[meni]

Originally posted by tarabos
we could debate this all day and not make any progress. i am happy to call it a difference of opinion...

yep i agree

by the way since your doing this for a long time can you please help my find the rest of the curriculum ?
i.e after 1bb?

thank you
m

 

[Jagdish]

Originally posted by Doc
Correction please:

Most in the 50's got their blacks in months rather than years.



Sir:

When you explain that some people got their B.B. in some months, were they really black belst from a combative point of view?

And , which will be the difference if we compare them to present B.B. not taught commecially?

Thanks for your time,

Jagdish

 

[Old Fat Kenpoka]

OK, here is the curriculum from my school

No Yellow Belt.
Orange: 25 Techniques + 17 variations = 42 total. Short 1, Stance set
Purple: 28 Techniques + 13 variations = 41 total. Long 1, Short 2
Blue: 30 Techniques + 8 variations = 38 total. Long 2, Short 3
Green: 30 Techniques + 11 variations = 41 total. Long 3, Staff Set.
3rd Brown: 10 Techniques. Book Set, Mass Attack Kata
2nd Brown: 6 Techniques. Long 4, Finger Set
1st Brown: 6 Techniques. Long 5, Sticks Set
184 techniques and variations total.

1st Black: no new techniques. Tiger & Crane, 2-Man Set, personal/thesis kata & written thesis.
2nd Black: Spear Set
3rd Black: Long 6
18 forms and sets total (plus your thesis kata).

 

[Doc]

Originally posted by Doc
Most in the 50's got their blacks in months rather than years.

Sir: When you explain that some people got their B.B. in some months, were they really black belst from a combative point of view?

Absolutely. In those days many of the guys (yes guys) who came to such a rigorous physically demanding combat activity, were athletes, police, ex-military, etc. Discipline was a given and you subjected yourself to the regimine.

As I have often said before, most were already "tough guys" who could fight when they came in the door. They came to become better fighters.

It was a different time where bleeding and brusing was normal in a class session. I didn't wear a cup until the eighties, (presumably I got smarter), and I had many friends from Oshima's school (Shotokan) who were missing their front teeth from "vigorous" sparring sessions. A schoolmate of mine at UCLA named George Byrd comes to mind, along with Ralph Castellanos from Kenpo. Make no mistake these guys could "knuckle" as we used to say, and suggest the ones that are still around still can. They're just "old school" tough guys.

Many got their belts while overseas in the military. Joe Lewis got his black in 6 months, Chuck Norris around the same length of time. Ed Parker made black while on active duty in the Coast Guard stationed in Hawaii. The amount of knowledge was nothing compared to today.

True, much less was taught in those days but what guys knew they knew well and could use without a doubt. The schools were not commercial and they were no place for the weak, faint of heart, women, or children. Everyone was a "warrior," or you wouldn't be there. It was a "war" mentality. No cups, no pads, no gloves, and you got talked about bad if you wore shin guards for being "soft." Man were we dumb.

It was a time when the information from China like Pressure points were not even heard of let alone available to actually learn, with rare exceptions. But make no mistake when you walked into the school everybody was a fighter, now a few are.

And , which will be the difference if we compare them to present B.B. not taught commecially?

I don't think there is a comparison in many respects. It is always difficult to compare physical attributes over decades of separation. What we call a linebacker today was a huge offensive lineman then. Can you believe Fred Dryer was a fearsome defensive end? To day he would have to play on offense as a big wideout or small tight end. Are there guys as tough as some of those from another time and place? Absolutely, but there are not as many. After all most schools now are commercial and full of women, kids and wannabe's. Don't get me wrong, there are some tough guys around, but they are harder to find now. Some rare schools like Bob White in Costa Mea sdemand that you are physical or you're in the wrong place. Others don't even allow contact. Go figure.

 

[Michael Billings]

I forgot the "No shinguards" back then ... I still have knots on my tibia, 30+ years later, from forearm "bone" blocks in Shotokan in the 60's.

Thanks for sharing & the memories. You might also mention that early on, guys who did Karate were not exactly considered the intellectual cream of the crop by the general public. This does not mean they were not smart ... obviously, rather the way they were perceived early on were as "fighters."

Think of a bunch of guys who like, and want, to fight better - pretty much most of the time. Lots had other jobs, law enforcement, ex-military (lots), current military, etc., as Dr. Chapél said, but the perception of the public was slowly changed by the younger generation of the 60's as they grew up on Green Hornet, I Spy, Wild Wild West (later) and comic books with super hero's doing "Karate".

The movies made it to America and the changes in perception began. Billy Jack was the 1st I remember, Enter the Dragon, Kung Fu (the movie), etc.

I remember my mom being ok with my taking Judo at the Y circa 1963-1964, but then in the late 60's she was agast and/or apalled that I wanted to do "Karate". Judo was a sport, Jui-Jitsu was a "wrestling" type of self defense from Japan. The rest were unknown for the most part, by her generation.

My hat is off to the "Pioneers", or Seniors, who paved the way for students of today. It is hard to imagine what it used to be like. Boxing was the manly art of self defense, for the most part. Karate was fighting dirty, Judo a sport, etc.

Thanks for the memories

Oss

 

[Doc]

Originally posted by Michael Billings
I forgot the "No shinguards" back then ... I still have knots on my tibia, 30+ years later, from forearm "bone" blocks in Shotokan in the 60's.

Man that was dumb wasn't it? My mother convinced me to wear a cup when she overheard that I didn't. "What if there is just an unlucky accident?" She said. But then I remembered Bobby Burbridge having his testicles trapped when a kick flexxed and cracked his cup in a tournament and then it closed shut on his body.

Thanks for sharing & the memories. You might also mention that early on, guys who did Karate were not exactly considered the intellectual cream of the crop by the general public. This does not mean they were not smart ... obviously, rather the way they were perceived early on were as "fighters."

Yeah, "Karate" guys had this public conception of the big knuckles and punching boards and bricks. Not the smartest of activities. Whereas judo was touted as gentleman wrestling.

Think of a bunch of guys who like, and want, to fight better - pretty much most of the time. Lots had other jobs, law enforcement, ex-military (lots), current military, etc., as Dr. Chapél said, but the perception of the public was slowly changed by the younger generation of the 60's as they grew up on Green Hornet, I Spy, Wild Wild West (later) and comic books with super hero's doing "Karate".

Don't forget, "The case Of The Dangerous Robbin," "Honey West," "The Detectives," and of course "I Spy," with Ed Parker.

The movies made it to America and the changes in perception began. Billy Jack was the 1st I remember, Enter the Dragon, Kung Fu (the movie), etc.

That's true. I was lucky because I could go down the street from my first school to the "Sing Lee Theater" in LA Chinatown and see the movies with English subtitles in the sixties. Over on LaBrea was the "Toho LaBrea Theater" that showed all the samurai movies. On crenshaw was the "Kabuki Theater." Great times, all gone now.

I remember my mom being ok with my taking Judo at the Y circa 1963-1964, but then in the late 60's she was agast and/or apalled that I wanted to do "Karate". Judo was a sport, Jui-Jitsu was a "wrestling" type of self defense from Japan. The rest were unknown for the most part, by her generation.

Funny I remember my Grandmother asking me, "Are you going to go play karate today?" like it was basketball or something.

My hat is off to the "Pioneers", or Seniors, who paved the way for students of today.

Hey I got some bad news for you. Sounds like that includes you as well so keep your hat on.

It is hard to imagine what it used to be like. Boxing was the manly art of self defense, for the most part. Karate was fighting dirty, Judo a sport, etc.
Thanks for the memories.
Oss

Yeah if you threw a kick it meant you wanted to fight "dirty."

Thank YOU for the memories as well.

 

[Jagdish]

Sir:

From your point of view, when some practicioner is a B.B? Does he has to have some physical assets like a number of push ups or does he msut have some fighting skill solely, like to k.o. any opponent, surviving an attack only or to defend fairly good from a fighter?



If we must take into account the different materials, then which equivalent DAN will be it , when the practicioner can drop an opponent with one shot in closer distance?

Thanking you in advance,

Jagdish

 

[tarabos]

Originally posted by meni
yep i agree

by the way since your doing this for a long time can you please help my find the rest of the curriculum ?
i.e after 1bb?

thank you
m

i haven't seen any net resources for that, but i haven't really looked all that hard for it. you could always ask mr. joe or one of his instructors for it....

i won't be back in the studio until tuesday, if i remember i'll type them up. i don't remember all the requirements off the top of my head verbatim...

 

[Jagdish]

Originally posted by Jagdish

DEAR DOC: SIR: ANY OPINION?

Sir:

When you explain that some people got their B.B. in some months, were they really black belst from a combative point of view?

And , which will be the difference if we compare them to present B.B. not taught commecially?

Thanks for your time,

Jagdish

MOST IN THE 50's GOT THEIR BLACKS IN MONTHS RATHER THAN YEARS.

 

[Doc]

Originally posted by Jagdish

I believe I answered as well as possible.

 

[Jagdish]

[

SIR: THIS IS THE RIGHT MESSAGE & NOT THE PREVIOUS ONE YOUR GOODSELF ANSWERED. SORRY FOR ANY INCONVENIENCE.JAGDISH

QUOTE]Originally posted by Jagdish
Sir:

From your point of view, when some practicioner is a B.B? Does he has to have some physical assets like a number of push ups or does he must have some fighting skill solely, like to k.o. any opponent, surviving an attack only or to defend himself fairly good from a fighter?



If we must take into account the different materials, then which equivalent DAN will be it , when the practicioner can drop an opponent with one shot in closer distance?

Thanking you in advance,

Jagdish

 

[CoolKempoDude]

Originally posted by Doc


Some rare schools like Bob White in Costa Mea sdemand that you are physical or you're in the wrong place.

Bob White, how can i forget about this individual? I heard a lot of things about him. I'll share one of them here with everybody here.

one of his students told my friend that his wife kicks him in the parking lot in front of his studio.

i'm not sure if this is true. Perhaps, any of his *former* students or WITNESS can clarify this.His wife or his neighbor KNOW about this.???

i thought it is funny. Have a good laugh.

 

[Doc]

Originally posted by CoolKempoDude
Bob White, how can i forget about this individual? I heard a lot of things about him. I'll share one of them here with everybody here.

one of his students told my friend that his wife kicks him in the parking lot in front of his studio.

i'm not sure if this is true. Perhaps, any of his *former* students or WITNESS can clarify this.His wife or his neighbor KNOW about this.???

i thought it is funny. Have a good laugh.

And how does that apply to this string? If you must, take it to the locker room. But if I were you, I would not discuss Mr. White's interaction with his wife anywhere.

 

[Goldendragon7]

Originally posted by CoolKempoDude
One of Bob White's students told my friend which in turn told me..... that his wife kicks him in the parking lot in front of his studio.

I thought it is funny. Have a good laugh.

Hmmmmmmm ......... Well, I don't find the post funny in fact .... it sounds a LOT like hearsay to me.... but even if it were true...... what is your point? If in fact it was true... I can assure you it was because he allowed it and NOT because he HAD to take it. LOL

but rumors like this have no place on the net....... this is way off topic anyways. Take Doc's advice... and leave this kind of rubbish off line, no one wants to hear this stuff.

 

[cdhall]

Sirs:

CoolKempoDude is an "anonymous" member of MartialTalk if you didn't notice.

I agree with you both on all counts.

Is is just me or do these anonymous members all tend to post stuff like this.

Irritating. This type of behaviour has kept me away recently. I think I'd prefer it if we all had to populate our profiles. But that is also off topic. I'll go post this idea somewhere else.

On the subject of Mr. White, I'll say that I consider him an excellent role-model. I enjoyed his contribution to Mr. Bleeker's "The Journey" very much and I greatly appreciated having him participate in my last belt test.
:asian:

 

[CoolKempoDude]

Originally posted by Goldendragon7
If in fact it was true... I can assure you it was because he allowed it and NOT because he HAD to take it. LOL

it is so true

 

[CoolKempoDude]

Originally posted by cdhall


Is is just me or do these anonymous members all tend to post stuff like this.

gee. I did use my REAL name to register but it doesn't show up in my profile for some reasons. Whatever it is, it's surely a good decision.

I like privacy. keep it that way

i didn't try to diminish or demean anybody. I told you what his student told my friend.

If it is true, what is wrong with me telling the truth ?

:soapbox:

 

[CoolKempoDude]

Originally posted by Doc
And how does that apply to this string? If you must, take it to the locker room. But if I were you, I would not discuss Mr. White's interaction with his wife anywhere.

by saying this, i didn't try to diminish or demean anybody.I just told you what HIS student told my friend. if it is true, what is wrong with me telling the truth ?

"you shall tell the truth and the truth shall make you mad"