Paak-da chi-sau entry

[LFJ]

Hang on, why are you giving me so much grief on the kfm forum over not posting a clip of my training if you are exactly the same?

We are not "exactly" the same. Geezer, Vajramusti, and others don't post videos of themselves either, yet I don't ask them for videos. You know why? Because they talk sense, even if I don't agree with their methods. They don't tell everyone else their training is unrealistic and more harm than good, and meanwhile make extraordinary claims of taking full contact bareknuckle face shots as a part of normal training without providing extraordinary evidence (actual footage). So, yeah... the same? Not exactly.

 

[guy b.]

I happen to think that training with headgear (and body shields) is detrimental. Many conventional boxers, never mind wing chun people, agree with me. It blatantly throws off timing and targeting.

I also happen to think that training with gloves is detrimental for the same reason- why would it not be after all?

Another issue with protected sparring is that it encourages a sports sparring mindset, moving in and out, no rush, plenty of time, feeling each other out, i.e. not a fight. This is anathema to wing chun. I want to train for fighting, not for ring sports.

The difficult truth is that wing chun is not very good as a ring sport. It is quite predictable given the time and space to figure it out. But that is also its strength given no time and no space. Look at Alan Orr's wing chun- it barely resembles the martial art that most of us are doing. It has some power chain elements, some forward intent, but not much else. Even the stepping is gone- they move like boxers.

I train mostly bare handed light contact or controlled target full contact. As often as I can I train bare knuckle full contact. This is not an extra ordinary claim given what I believe. Videos posted of actual bare knuckle fights show that it generally isn't that damaging, bar some cuts, which is my experience of it. Maybe I have just been lucky but until that changes I intend to continue doing it and advocating it to other people.

Let me ask you a question- do you think Yip Man and WSL got good at wing chun by donning boxing or mma gloves and slugging it out in training? If not then why should we do it? Or don't you think they were any good?

You know why? Because they talk sense, even if I don't agree with their methods. They don't tell everyone else their training is unrealistic and more harm than good, and meanwhile make extraordinary claims of taking full contact bareknuckle face shots as a part of normal training without providing extraordinary evidence (actual footage). So, yeah... the same?

You are all telling each other all of the time that each others training is a waste of time. And you all make extraordinary claims of efficacy and competence. This is what wing chun people do, lol

 

[geezer]

I happen to think that training with headgear (and body shields) is detrimental ...I also happen to think that training with gloves is detrimental...

I train mostly bare handed light contact or controlled target full contact. As often as I can I train bare knuckle full contact.

That's pretty hardcore. I really don't think gloves and headgear are detrimental if you are concerned for your health and your longevity in the art. Maybe it's different for a young guy, especially if you plan to get involved in street fights. I'm not young, and I have no intention of getting into fights. That's just me.

Anyway, it would be great if you posted some videos of what you see as proper training. Like that video of Jerry sparring on that other forum. That was pretty controlled. Maybe I'm just misunderstanding you?

 

[guy b.]

That's pretty hardcore. I really don't think gloves and headgear are detrimental if you are concerned for your health and your longevity in the art. Maybe it's different for a young guy, especially if you plan to get involved in street fights. I'm not young, and I have no intention of getting into fights. That's just me.

Anyway, it would be great if you posted some videos of what you see as proper training. Like that video of Jerry sparring on that other forum. That was pretty controlled. Maybe I'm just misunderstanding you?

I don't make videos. Light contact similar to the clip of Jerry is something I do every time I train. Harder contact usually looks less hard than the bare knuckle fights I posted because we don't hate each other, but it does result in cuts and bruises. We wear gum shields to minimise damage to teeth.

I don't honestly think it is hard core to train without gloves. For Chinese MA it is absolutely normal.

 

[JPinAZ]

No intention to hound anyone, was just surprised to read this. No reply expected or desired

And then goes on to drag in a topic from another thread from another FORUM.
If you want to hash out that lame argument why not just do it over there vs. recreating it here?
At least make a new thread and stop derailing this one.

 

[guy b.]

I'm happy to stop talking about it.

 

[geezer]

Or you could start a thread and talk about whatever you want. Sheesh, some people are really judgemental, If talking about lame topics was a crime, I'd have been locked up a long time ago.

 

[Punchy]

My wife thinks anything to do with WC is lame.

 

[Jake104]

My wife thinks anything to do with WC is lame.

So does mine. She likes to say what I do is yoga. Funny thing is, she started WC with me in 93' but only did it for a year..

 

[Punchy]

So does mine. She likes to say what I do is yoga. Funny thing is, she started WC with me in 93' but only did it for a year..

A year??!! I could make fun of her and call her a quitter, but a year???. My wife wouldn't come near WC if you paid her, or even if it were endorsed by Oprah Winfrey and Rachel Ray.

 

[Jake104]

A year??!! I could make fun of her and call her a quitter, but a year???. My wife wouldn't come near WC if you paid her, or even if it were endorsed by Oprah Winfrey and Rachel Ray.

You could, but I can't, cause I still live with her. Matter fact that's the key to a successful marriage of going on 18 years. Ive learned to keep my mouth shut. Or else

 

[geezer]

You could, but I can't, cause I still live with her. Matter fact that's the key to a successful marriage of going on 18 years. Ive learned to keep my mouth shut. Or else

True that. I've never met your wife, but knowing you, she must be a patient woman! Now, my wife also has zero interest in WC, and a good thing too. Just from watching me practice (usually with some visible annoyance) she picked up a nasty vertical fist punch which she used on me once about twenty-some years ago. Ouch!!! Then, even worse... she sent me off for anger management sessions since "she never got mad like that and hit anybody till she met me, so clearly it was my problem!

So like you, I gradually learned how to shut my fat mouth. Most of the time, anyway. Now we are going on 27 years of marriage. Ain't life grand!