On a first time real use

[Drac]

What was he thinking attacking someone who's a foot taller and 100 lbs heavier?

He wasn't thinking..

 

[MJS]

He wasn't thinking..

Good point. Many times, these people feel that they have nothing to lose by taking a swing at the staff. If they have no desire to reform themselves, or if they're looking at being locked up for many years, whats one more charge!

I remember a conversation with an inmate that was looking at about 60yrs for murder. He said that it would not bother him at all about hitting any of the staff. "What are they going to do, take my phone privilages away for a week? Take my rec. time away? Who cares, I'm probably going to die in prison, so there's not much you can do thats really going to effect me."

Sounds like a nice guy huh?

Mike

 

[green meanie]

Good point. Many times, these people feel that they have nothing to lose by taking a swing at the staff. If they have no desire to reform themselves, or if they're looking at being locked up for many years, whats one more charge!

I remember a conversation with an inmate that was looking at about 60yrs for murder. He said that it would not bother him at all about hitting any of the staff. "What are they going to do, take my phone privilages away for a week? Take my rec. time away? Who cares, I'm probably going to die in prison, so there's not much you can do thats really going to effect me."

Sounds like a nice guy huh? Mike

-And there's no one as dangerous as someone who believes they have nothing left to lose.

 

[sgtmac_46]

I'm sure you know more about PPCT than I do...I've heard both good and bad. I've been through CLAMP and thought it was pretty good.

The last thing i'm going to do is badmouth Bruce Siddle and PPCT. I can only say that after much experience with PPCT, I don't teach it. There is good and bad in it (As with everything else), but it's simply my opinion that there are other things out there i'd much rather teach my officers.

As far as CLAMP is concerned, I took the CLAMP/GRASP instructor's course with Larry Lein himself. And, while, having had several years experience with both Judo and jui-jitsu, both for sport and self-defense, I didn't see much that was really new to me, I did find it an excellent course. Those who aren't aware, CLAMP is built around a standing kimura, and was developed by Larry Lein, and his son Chris Lein, who is a Kansas City Police Officer.

I did find CLAMP/GRASP instruction first rate, and, Larry Lein himself is a very knowledgeable and friendly guy, and being a retired FBI agent and a BB in Judo, he has experience in the subject matter. I have zero problem endorsing CLAMP/GRASP for law enforcement and security personnel. It's a pretty good foundation for a department defensive tactics/control tactics program.

Incidently, on the topic of this discussion, I believe Larry Lein also has a program designed for group homes, mental health facilities, and other 'therapeutic' type facilities. The name of the program escapes me, but if Larry's teaching it, it's probably pretty good.

 

[Nanalo74]

The restraints we were taught come from the Theraputic Model called "Safe Crisis Management." and My organization teaches "Reality Therapy and Choice Theory."

If anyone knows about this you'd know that this is a load of bunk....I find SCM and RT/CT to be a load of crap and that there are better ways to work with kids but alas...I need a paycheck.

Oh God! William Glasser's Choice Theory. That's what we were taught to use at the place where I worked. Brother, do what you gotta do to stay safe. Like I said, I had plenty of co-workers who had to go on disability due to the injuries they sustained.

And Mike, typically there is no union in a place like that unless it's state or city run. They're usually privately owned and work in conjunction with the family court. That's how they get their "clients".

Vic www.combatartsusa.com

 

[splazzatch]

I was once in a meeting with my supervisor's supervisor and I called the guy Billy Glasser...I thought the people in my meeting were going to have a heart attack....

 

[138]

Okay, I am officially confused. My formal education is in the field of counseling. Glasser was one of my favorite theorists. His reality therapy was one of the tools i went to when i was doing mental health counseling. But like any other counseling theory, it is little more than a metaphoric lense with which to view the clients situation. In what context are you guys being taught/using reality therapy and/or choice theory?

 

[splazzatch]

Sorry for the delay in answering...we are taught RT/CT in every situation specifically to teach the kids about the perceived reality and actual reality. Also, WDEP (Wants, Doing, Evaluate, Proceed).

 

[Kacey]

I feel for you - I've been in that situation, except it wasn't in a therapeutic setting, it was in the middle school where I work; one of the emotionally disturbed students got into a fight with another kid, and, when the fight was broken up, the emotionally disturbed student lost what self-control he had left and tried to charge me. He ended up in an arm bar (not at all in keeping with the CPI training I went through) - but if I hadn't caught him, he was headed for a large, plate glass window... and I only trust shatterproof glass so far, especially on the second floor. Luckily for me, my principal was there (she was blocking the stair well) and had no complaint about the control I ended up using, until enough people got there to put him in a more acceptable (2-person) walking restraint.

I've also had to break up several fights, and every time, my referee training has kicked in without my thinking about it - I find myself in the middle of the two fighters, arms pushing them away from each other, shouting "BREAK... it up!" But so far it's always been effective - I think it's the really loud shouting that distracts them more than anything.

 

[Nanalo74]

Reminds me of a fight I broke up at a GED program I was working at in Harlem. Two 19 year olds decided to play "Ali-Frazier" in the middle of my Leadership Development class.
A couple of students and staff members grabbed one kid and I grabbed the other one. I grabbed his shirt under the pecs and pushed him back against a wall. The shock that I handled him so easily instantly calmed him down. He looked at me, eyes like saucers, and whispered "Ok. I'm ok."
For the next two weeks he proceeded to tell anyone who would listen how strong I was and not to sleep on me. (I was a lot smaller than this kid) Helps to have a reputation like that when you're working in the middle of the projects.

Vic
www.combatartsusa.com

 

[jdinca]

Reminds me of a fight I broke up at a GED program I was working at in Harlem. Two 19 year olds decided to play "Ali-Frazier" in the middle of my Leadership Development class.
A couple of students and staff members grabbed one kid and I grabbed the other one. I grabbed his shirt under the pecs and pushed him back against a wall. The shock that I handled him so easily instantly calmed him down. He looked at me, eyes like saucers, and whispered "Ok. I'm ok."
For the next two weeks he proceeded to tell anyone who would listen how strong I was and not to sleep on me. (I was a lot smaller than this kid) Helps to have a reputation like that when you're working in the middle of the projects.

Vic
www.combatartsusa.com

There's a certain amount of irony in the fact that this happened in a Leadership Development class.

 

[Nanalo74]

There's a certain amount of irony in the fact that this happened in a Leadership Development class.

I thought so too. :idunno:

Vic
www.combatartsusa.com

 

[Drac]

-And there's no one as dangerous as someone who believes they have nothing left to lose.

Gospel truth there...

 

[Sin]

I hope everything works out for the child, things must be pretty bad for him to attack a large individual like yourself. Good Job defending yourself and the others around you, you gotta do what you gotta do.

 

[SAVAGE]

Well done...but I must agree with Mike..locks are my weapons of chice..you could have done two things..killed him or severly injured his spine...I think that you have a very good working knowledge of PP application and vital areas to pull it off...but the weight difference could have done him harm...but I must commend the way you controlled him without doing damage..or even attempting to...most people would have struck him one for good measure..but you kept your head..a good example of MA and a Martial Artist!

*bows respectfully*

 

[MJS]

-And there's no one as dangerous as someone who believes they have nothing left to lose.

Hearing that, I was thinking, "Oh, this is nice to hear!"

On the flip side, on the midnight shift, 2 guys would be allowed out to clean the block. One was looking at a conviction for rape, the other also for murder. However, I never heard comments like that from them. Of course, that does not make them any better than the other guy.

Mike