Okinawa-Te.
- Thread starter arnisador
- Start date
RRouuselot
Master of Arts
TimoS,TimoS said:
Time and time again I have asked Handgrape to post something.....ANYTHING that would prove or support his side of the discussion and disprove mine........and yet he posts nothing to support his ideas. No point of reference, no authors, no articles, ........nothing........I guess we are just suppose to take his word for it even though some of his claims/ideas contradict many respectable historians academic research.
Originally Posted by Handgrape
Anyone can paste web articles. That doesn't make them true. Research is not only done on the web. And truth is not found in History books. Not usually.
An actual post. And reference too? tell me it isn't true.
Not Taiwanese eh?
http://www.softidea.com/twhakkausa/
Not Taiwanese eh?
http://www.softidea.com/twhakkausa/
Jook Lum Mantis
http://www.bambootemple.com/sx090001.htm
http://www.bambootemple.com/sx090001.htm
The New Zealand guy's website is promoting a false history, for some reason (I would tell him to take it off but can't find contact info), similar to the following:
http://www.ryukyukenpo.org/Grandmaster Seiyu Oyata.htm
1. Mr. OyataÂ’s father was the middleweight Sumo champion of all Okinawa. When he was young, he, and the rest of the Sumo team, challenged all comers in Okinawa. Kana Oyata was the strongest man on the team and won the competition for the island. 2. Mr. Oyata was the fourth son of Kana Oyata and the youngest. His three brothers Taro, Kiseii and Akio were killed in the second World War. He, also, fought during the war and was commissioned a lieutenant in the Japanese Navy. If the Japanese forces had held back the American forces a bit longer, Mr. Oyata would have died in combat. 3. He had been trained as a suicide torpedo operator. 4. As luck would have it, he was captured and interred, in the Philippines, by the US Marines; just before he was due to embark on his mission. His death certificate had already been sent to his family. 5. As a part of his training in the Navy, he learned Japanese martial arts. These included; Judo, kendo, naginata, yari, and Iaido.
*** 6. After the war, at age 17, Mr. Oyata began working delivering food and supplies to war refugees. His work took him to the port town of Teruma where he met a very large man wearing the old “Bushi” top knot hair style. 7. He was Mr. Uhugushuku, a former Bushi, who had been in the service of the Okinawan Emperor. 8. Uhugushuku no Tanmei was about 93 years old at the time of their meeting. Because of Mr. Oyata’s “Royal” connection, through his ancestry, Master Uhugushuku allowed him to study with him.
*** 9. The Uhugushuku family has a long history of service to the Okinawan Emperors. The most famous was Kenyu “Uni” Uhugushuku. The Uhugushuku family is famous for their karate and kobujutsu techniques. Though, the 6’ bo and 4’ jo were the family’s specialty, they had intimate knowledge and great skill with all of the weapons; and, empty hand techniques. 10. Mr. Oyata became Mr. Uhugushuku’s personal student and trained with him daily. He considered Mr. Oyata a family member, calling him “Mago” (which is Okinawan for grandson) and taught him not as a regular student; but, as a family member.
11.*** Mr. Uhugushuku expressed the importance of kata training as a way to learn and practice tuite and kyusho technique. He gave Mr. Oyata problems and ideas to discover hidden meanings in the kata.
*** Because of his ability, Mr. Oyata was introduced to a friend of Mr. UhugushukuÂ’s, Wakinaguri no Tanmei. Mr. Wakinaguri specialized in striking techniques called kyusho jutsu. 12. When Mr. Oyata met him, he noticed that all the fingers on Mr. WakinaguriÂ’s hands were the same length. This was due to training, since the age of four, by thrusting his fingers into pumice sand. Mr. Wakinaguri taught how to discover the bodyÂ’s weak points and vital areas as well as how to strike them.
1. What year? http://seinenkai.com/art-sumo.html
2. Even Japan had "sole surviving heir" laws in the military.
sounds like Saving Private Ryan or the ealier B&W version "7 fighting Foy's" (?)
3. kaiten operator? There were only a few since the inventor only made a few He would most likely know him. "Lieutenant Sekio Nishina"
4. "Or rather to make the story sound good"
5. Or "He got to touch these weapons for a day" I don't think the Navy trained hand to hand combat. In fact if they did it would have only been for the short time in training less than a few months. Just like the Air Force doesn't teach hand to hand. Only Forces who will meet in possible hand to hand. Iaido? you got to be kidding me.
6. 17? and an officer no less. for a country that hasn't been eating cow very long this guy is full of Bull already.
7. Why are all the stories the same. 2 guys that no one can verify existed taught me this special martial art. Of course no pictures exist of any of the teachers...What do you expect I lived in Nagasaki...boom.
8. 18 year old kid learns from a 93 year old and good lessons he learned. Don't fall or you break your hip.
9. However there no record of the name. It is still true. I promise.
10. Or "for the few days left that he was alive."
What this boils down too is this: You knock my teacher because he admitted he lied. But you support yours because he never admitted it. Who has more honor? "See your going to learn two things from this. One- don't do that. And two- you just dropped $100,000 on an education you could have spent $1.50 in late charges at the library."
11. Not that I am anti kata but this statement is also thrown around by people that don't know how to fight. They can't teach their students "in context" so they say "learn the secrets of the kata" (Talk to the drum, don't ask me.)
12. Both hands? Impossible. Either he was a midget, had really bad arthritis or he was fooled or this is a load of crap. You can't compress bones like that. Unless he never stopped (never) and he broke them, they can't break the divine ratio. He was probably bending his knuckles in a visual trick...But they again we still have no proof of his existence either.
However: there is one solution. The way it is worded I fall into that category: Both my hands are the same length too.
In the long run it doesn't matter who has the more reputible story. What matters is who is the hack martial artist and who is the real deal. See, I don't diss your style. I know nothing about it. And you know nothing about mine. So therefore you are an *** of u and me is out of here. You want to talk technical, fine. But don't discount the art simply because it was made up yesterday, (and yours the day before). Are you saying Bruce Lee is full of crap because he only trained 2 years with Man?
We can settle this though: how many great fighters recomend your style and how many recommend mine? Case closed. No one has ever heard of a Ryu Te Champion. But everyone knows Joe Lewis, Jim Kelly, Bob Wall. How bout that, those guys didn't even get advanced ranks in Te and they credit Gordon as the "Greatest teacher/fighter".
So unless you are going to compare principles I would keep you assumptions for the immature. I would gladly show you why I know my style is better than any other that I have seen. (as of yet) I will leave room for yours just in case. There are a lot of great aspects to many styles and systems but only one great system that I have found.
I believe I saw your teacher on the Discovery Channel. His advanced students we talking about the "secret technique"? not sure though. Do you wear hakama, and do some osae style waza?
http://www.ryukyukenpo.org/Grandmaster Seiyu Oyata.htm
1. Mr. OyataÂ’s father was the middleweight Sumo champion of all Okinawa. When he was young, he, and the rest of the Sumo team, challenged all comers in Okinawa. Kana Oyata was the strongest man on the team and won the competition for the island. 2. Mr. Oyata was the fourth son of Kana Oyata and the youngest. His three brothers Taro, Kiseii and Akio were killed in the second World War. He, also, fought during the war and was commissioned a lieutenant in the Japanese Navy. If the Japanese forces had held back the American forces a bit longer, Mr. Oyata would have died in combat. 3. He had been trained as a suicide torpedo operator. 4. As luck would have it, he was captured and interred, in the Philippines, by the US Marines; just before he was due to embark on his mission. His death certificate had already been sent to his family. 5. As a part of his training in the Navy, he learned Japanese martial arts. These included; Judo, kendo, naginata, yari, and Iaido.
*** 6. After the war, at age 17, Mr. Oyata began working delivering food and supplies to war refugees. His work took him to the port town of Teruma where he met a very large man wearing the old “Bushi” top knot hair style. 7. He was Mr. Uhugushuku, a former Bushi, who had been in the service of the Okinawan Emperor. 8. Uhugushuku no Tanmei was about 93 years old at the time of their meeting. Because of Mr. Oyata’s “Royal” connection, through his ancestry, Master Uhugushuku allowed him to study with him.
*** 9. The Uhugushuku family has a long history of service to the Okinawan Emperors. The most famous was Kenyu “Uni” Uhugushuku. The Uhugushuku family is famous for their karate and kobujutsu techniques. Though, the 6’ bo and 4’ jo were the family’s specialty, they had intimate knowledge and great skill with all of the weapons; and, empty hand techniques. 10. Mr. Oyata became Mr. Uhugushuku’s personal student and trained with him daily. He considered Mr. Oyata a family member, calling him “Mago” (which is Okinawan for grandson) and taught him not as a regular student; but, as a family member.
11.*** Mr. Uhugushuku expressed the importance of kata training as a way to learn and practice tuite and kyusho technique. He gave Mr. Oyata problems and ideas to discover hidden meanings in the kata.
*** Because of his ability, Mr. Oyata was introduced to a friend of Mr. UhugushukuÂ’s, Wakinaguri no Tanmei. Mr. Wakinaguri specialized in striking techniques called kyusho jutsu. 12. When Mr. Oyata met him, he noticed that all the fingers on Mr. WakinaguriÂ’s hands were the same length. This was due to training, since the age of four, by thrusting his fingers into pumice sand. Mr. Wakinaguri taught how to discover the bodyÂ’s weak points and vital areas as well as how to strike them.
1. What year? http://seinenkai.com/art-sumo.html
2. Even Japan had "sole surviving heir" laws in the military.
sounds like Saving Private Ryan or the ealier B&W version "7 fighting Foy's" (?)
3. kaiten operator? There were only a few since the inventor only made a few He would most likely know him. "Lieutenant Sekio Nishina"
4. "Or rather to make the story sound good"
5. Or "He got to touch these weapons for a day" I don't think the Navy trained hand to hand combat. In fact if they did it would have only been for the short time in training less than a few months. Just like the Air Force doesn't teach hand to hand. Only Forces who will meet in possible hand to hand. Iaido? you got to be kidding me.
6. 17? and an officer no less. for a country that hasn't been eating cow very long this guy is full of Bull already.
7. Why are all the stories the same. 2 guys that no one can verify existed taught me this special martial art. Of course no pictures exist of any of the teachers...What do you expect I lived in Nagasaki...boom.
8. 18 year old kid learns from a 93 year old and good lessons he learned. Don't fall or you break your hip.
9. However there no record of the name. It is still true. I promise.
10. Or "for the few days left that he was alive."
What this boils down too is this: You knock my teacher because he admitted he lied. But you support yours because he never admitted it. Who has more honor? "See your going to learn two things from this. One- don't do that. And two- you just dropped $100,000 on an education you could have spent $1.50 in late charges at the library."
11. Not that I am anti kata but this statement is also thrown around by people that don't know how to fight. They can't teach their students "in context" so they say "learn the secrets of the kata" (Talk to the drum, don't ask me.)
12. Both hands? Impossible. Either he was a midget, had really bad arthritis or he was fooled or this is a load of crap. You can't compress bones like that. Unless he never stopped (never) and he broke them, they can't break the divine ratio. He was probably bending his knuckles in a visual trick...But they again we still have no proof of his existence either.
However: there is one solution. The way it is worded I fall into that category: Both my hands are the same length too.
In the long run it doesn't matter who has the more reputible story. What matters is who is the hack martial artist and who is the real deal. See, I don't diss your style. I know nothing about it. And you know nothing about mine. So therefore you are an *** of u and me is out of here. You want to talk technical, fine. But don't discount the art simply because it was made up yesterday, (and yours the day before). Are you saying Bruce Lee is full of crap because he only trained 2 years with Man?
We can settle this though: how many great fighters recomend your style and how many recommend mine? Case closed. No one has ever heard of a Ryu Te Champion. But everyone knows Joe Lewis, Jim Kelly, Bob Wall. How bout that, those guys didn't even get advanced ranks in Te and they credit Gordon as the "Greatest teacher/fighter".
So unless you are going to compare principles I would keep you assumptions for the immature. I would gladly show you why I know my style is better than any other that I have seen. (as of yet) I will leave room for yours just in case. There are a lot of great aspects to many styles and systems but only one great system that I have found.
I believe I saw your teacher on the Discovery Channel. His advanced students we talking about the "secret technique"? not sure though. Do you wear hakama, and do some osae style waza?
For the Record The New Zealand website is not lead by a student of Gordon's. John is a 3rd or more generation student so he may not no any better. I can't say for sure. For instance they say they teach traditional Okinawa-te but you see a picture of a kid in a black gi and a yellow belt. Traditional Te didn't have a yellow belt and a black gi was something you tested for.
Forgot a name in the list. "Ted Tabura" got a green or brown belt I think?
Forgot a name in the list. "Ted Tabura" got a green or brown belt I think?
RRouuselot
Master of Arts
Ahhhhh the deceptive troll returns.
Oh really? having any documentation on thatÂ…Â…and if you do how strictly was it enforced at the end of World War 2???
You donÂ’t think or you donÂ’t know? I think itÂ’s more like you never served in the Japanese Navy and therefore have no idea what you are talking about. However, several martial arts were taught in the Japanese military, sword being one of them.
Uehara Seikichi knew them, and there are photos of the two men in question at Mr. OyataÂ’s house. Come to think of itÂ…Â…I have never seen anything but a drawing of Itosu Anko, and Azato YasatuneÂ…Â…in fact not many people ever trained under AzatoÂ…Â…I wonder if they ever really existed.
http://www.koza.ne.jp/bunkazai/shiseki/page/unuufugushiku.html
I guess this link to the Uni Uhugushuku Family Grave makes you look really stpid then doesnÂ’t itÂ…Â…Â…Â….
Both teachers died in the early 1950Â’s
Bold type:
I saw the movie Good Will Hunting tooÂ…Â…..I mean that is where you stole that cheezy line isnÂ’t itÂ…Â…
As for your teacherÂ…Â….who might that be? In true cowardly fashion you have neither posted his name or yours.
Again you are made to look stupid by your own comments and lack of knowledge:
http://www.usjujitsu.net/bio/boggs/
Boggs began his karate training in the mid-60s on Okinawa under the very famous Grandmaster Taika Seiyu Oyata. Master Joe Lewis, former undefeated World Heavyweight Kickboxing Champion Three times Grand Champion and Boggs' good friend, trained at the same Kenpukan Dojo at this time.
After training several years on Okinawa, Boggs also tested under the late Grandmaster Shigeru Nakamura, Founder of Okinawan Kempo. Returning to the USA, Boggs trained several more years under Oyata who had followed Bob to Kansas. After Shihan Oyata, Boggs trained under world famous Jim Harrison, founder of Bushidokan and Sakura Warrior Arts Systems, and continues to do so today.
For information on Mr. Oyata here is a website run by his senior student.
http://www.kushu.com/
Handgrape said:
Handgrape said:
Oh really? having any documentation on thatÂ…Â…and if you do how strictly was it enforced at the end of World War 2???
Handgrape said:
You donÂ’t think or you donÂ’t know? I think itÂ’s more like you never served in the Japanese Navy and therefore have no idea what you are talking about. However, several martial arts were taught in the Japanese military, sword being one of them.
Handgrape said:
Handgrape said:
Uehara Seikichi knew them, and there are photos of the two men in question at Mr. OyataÂ’s house. Come to think of itÂ…Â…I have never seen anything but a drawing of Itosu Anko, and Azato YasatuneÂ…Â…in fact not many people ever trained under AzatoÂ…Â…I wonder if they ever really existed.
Handgrape said:
http://www.koza.ne.jp/bunkazai/shiseki/page/unuufugushiku.html
I guess this link to the Uni Uhugushuku Family Grave makes you look really stpid then doesnÂ’t itÂ…Â…Â…Â….
Handgrape said:
Handgrape said:
Both teachers died in the early 1950Â’s
Bold type:
I saw the movie Good Will Hunting tooÂ…Â…..I mean that is where you stole that cheezy line isnÂ’t itÂ…Â…
As for your teacherÂ…Â….who might that be? In true cowardly fashion you have neither posted his name or yours.
Handgrape said:
Again you are made to look stupid by your own comments and lack of knowledge:
http://www.usjujitsu.net/bio/boggs/
Boggs began his karate training in the mid-60s on Okinawa under the very famous Grandmaster Taika Seiyu Oyata. Master Joe Lewis, former undefeated World Heavyweight Kickboxing Champion Three times Grand Champion and Boggs' good friend, trained at the same Kenpukan Dojo at this time.
After training several years on Okinawa, Boggs also tested under the late Grandmaster Shigeru Nakamura, Founder of Okinawan Kempo. Returning to the USA, Boggs trained several more years under Oyata who had followed Bob to Kansas. After Shihan Oyata, Boggs trained under world famous Jim Harrison, founder of Bushidokan and Sakura Warrior Arts Systems, and continues to do so today.
For information on Mr. Oyata here is a website run by his senior student.
http://www.kushu.com/
RRouuselot
Master of Arts
Never said there weren't any Hakka people in Taiwan I said they were not listed as the "native people" of Taiwan. Taiwan has almost every variation of Chinese you can imagine.Handgrape said:
You see Handgrape, this is why having any sort of discussion with you is like talking to a child. You don't read other peoples posts well and fail to research anything you are discussing with an ounce degree of accuracy. It truly is like talking to a child and I have to admit you have become too tedious to have a discussion with on any level. You are just not worth the effort........
===Copywritten content removed by request===
Ahhhhh the Frog in the well answers back.
Tokubetsu Kogeki-tai?
How about dates and times? He was a 17 year old in the Navy. Possible.
But a 17 year old kid graduating from the Japanese Naval Staff College is ridiculous especially in war time. More likely he would have either joined at 13 and gone to war college? I don't buy it. Besides the few people who were Suicide torpedo bombers? How does he explain being promoted 3 grades by the time he was 17?
Honestly I wouldn't I know about the enforcement of "Sole Survivor" law in Japanese Military. Is that how you settle everything. I thought I was born in Missouri. You gotta admit the burden of proof lies in his court. I know our military takes it very serious.
In the Navy? I know even the Marines use swords in color guard but do they train them in sword fighting. No. In Japan it is possible however what would be the point?
"stpid'' and lieyar is what you look like now. If anyone goes to this link they will be shocked to find that the grave marks people who ahve died in 1458
"Koyuu" and a "little devil" What are you trying to do here Robert. Prove you don't know Japanese? Are you saying that he built the graves when he was a kid? OniDaijo "Gusuku" Besides your grave is here:
http://koza.ne.jp/bunkazai/shiseki/page/houanden.html
Yea. Matt Damon...Didn't think you needed the name...sorry to throw you with such a famous quote I will be more careful to assist you since you have been lied to all your life.
You obviously have a mental disorder. We have been talking about my teacher the whole time. If you can't remember his name that shows how Obaka you really are. Me, I am the guy who handed you your ***.
You didn't just suggest that Bob Boggs is a great fighter did you? Are you saying that Joe recommends this folly. I got it on tape that Joe was saying that his teacher in Okinawa was lame. That is why he ended up at my teachers door. He knew Gordon wouldn't promote him without learning everything so he left but not before knowing who was the better fighter. Ask him. Joe can travel the world over to train with masters and how many times did he return?
Wow...That was good for me to know. Yep now I remember your teacher I saw with Jim Louge. Another really "bright" guy. Robert your teacher is the quintessential "BS" artist. Sorry to say. Regardless of history, this guy is full of garbage. He may have a good technique or two, learned or made up but he is basically stealing from many people and making up some BS about his family history. It is the most common of Japanese problems. "Being full of shitake." I have L.A. times proof of that epidemic.
LA Times Thurs. Nov 9, 2000 - "Japan Amazed as Archeologist's Magic Exposed as Sleight of Hand" Culturally speaking you are in the land of the biggest pile of BS.
Now I know why you asnwer as you do: as a Frog in the Well.
Also...your question earlier. No one in Okinawa has ever learned the Okinawa-te kata as far as I know. They are too long and difficult for them. They like their 40 move short forms. Tadashi Yamashita may have learned some of them however.
Do you like Apples? - Same movie
I'm through with this guy. - Joe Peci
-- pong
RRouuselot said:
Tokubetsu Kogeki-tai?
How about dates and times? He was a 17 year old in the Navy. Possible.
But a 17 year old kid graduating from the Japanese Naval Staff College is ridiculous especially in war time. More likely he would have either joined at 13 and gone to war college? I don't buy it. Besides the few people who were Suicide torpedo bombers? How does he explain being promoted 3 grades by the time he was 17?
Honestly I wouldn't I know about the enforcement of "Sole Survivor" law in Japanese Military. Is that how you settle everything. I thought I was born in Missouri. You gotta admit the burden of proof lies in his court. I know our military takes it very serious.
In the Navy? I know even the Marines use swords in color guard but do they train them in sword fighting. No. In Japan it is possible however what would be the point?
"stpid'' and lieyar is what you look like now. If anyone goes to this link they will be shocked to find that the grave marks people who ahve died in 1458
"Koyuu" and a "little devil" What are you trying to do here Robert. Prove you don't know Japanese? Are you saying that he built the graves when he was a kid? OniDaijo "Gusuku" Besides your grave is here:
http://koza.ne.jp/bunkazai/shiseki/page/houanden.html
Yea. Matt Damon...Didn't think you needed the name...sorry to throw you with such a famous quote I will be more careful to assist you since you have been lied to all your life.
You obviously have a mental disorder. We have been talking about my teacher the whole time. If you can't remember his name that shows how Obaka you really are. Me, I am the guy who handed you your ***.
You didn't just suggest that Bob Boggs is a great fighter did you? Are you saying that Joe recommends this folly. I got it on tape that Joe was saying that his teacher in Okinawa was lame. That is why he ended up at my teachers door. He knew Gordon wouldn't promote him without learning everything so he left but not before knowing who was the better fighter. Ask him. Joe can travel the world over to train with masters and how many times did he return?
Wow...That was good for me to know. Yep now I remember your teacher I saw with Jim Louge. Another really "bright" guy. Robert your teacher is the quintessential "BS" artist. Sorry to say. Regardless of history, this guy is full of garbage. He may have a good technique or two, learned or made up but he is basically stealing from many people and making up some BS about his family history. It is the most common of Japanese problems. "Being full of shitake." I have L.A. times proof of that epidemic.
LA Times Thurs. Nov 9, 2000 - "Japan Amazed as Archeologist's Magic Exposed as Sleight of Hand" Culturally speaking you are in the land of the biggest pile of BS.
Now I know why you asnwer as you do: as a Frog in the Well.
Also...your question earlier. No one in Okinawa has ever learned the Okinawa-te kata as far as I know. They are too long and difficult for them. They like their 40 move short forms. Tadashi Yamashita may have learned some of them however.
Do you like Apples? - Same movie
I'm through with this guy. - Joe Peci
-- pong
I noticed you didn't answer any of my questions from the older post Either you don't read them. Or can't answer them. As I am tired of playing this stupid game I will leave you to your forum. But the next time one of my students tells me your talking trash I will have you booted off this forum.
No reply.
"laugh, it's funny I have the money to have you killed by somebody who has nothing." MM
No reply.
"laugh, it's funny I have the money to have you killed by somebody who has nothing." MM
RRouuselot
Master of Arts
HereÂ’s an idea....since you are on the west coast and he often goes there why donÂ’t you ask him in person.Handgrape said:
My grave?? I wasnÂ’t aware I was dead.Handgrape said:
As usual you have not understood what was written in front of you.....Uni Uhugushuku was an ancestor to one of Mr. OyataÂ’s teachers.....that teacher is buried in the family grave as is customary.
Handed me my ***??? I donÂ’t think so.Handgrape said:
Still too much of a coward to post your name I see.
Handgrape said:
You are of course referring to an incident where a Japanese archeologist “planted” some remains at a dig and got busted for it and now is ruined in Japanese Academia.
Not sure what the wrongful doing of a Japanese archeologist has to do with anything on this thread.
Hell you didn’t have to tell anyone that.....most people already knew it. “Too long and difficult” yeah right........Handgrape said:
RRouuselot
Master of Arts
1) :roflmao:Handgrape said:
2) is that a threat??? sure sounds like it.
RRouuselot
Master of Arts
Handgrape said:
From Joe Lewis:
Kinjo Chinsaku gave me my first black belt promotion. He spoke only two words of English, but he was able to bring out the greatness in me. He had deep appreciation for my talents in spite of the language barrier. I remember his essence. I call it class. He gave me my class as a fighter.
My first instructor was Eizo Shimabuku. He taught me tradition. He gave me my background, my history, and my heritage in the martial arts. He also provided me with the best crop of black belts on the planet for learning. He taught me how to fight and to always put my best foot forward, never to miss a workout; always come to class first and always leave last, and to respect my seniors. He also promoted me to black belt.
Seiyu Oyata was my third karate teacher. Oyata taught me how to be sneaky, to ambush, to never trust what the eye sees. He taught me instincts and how to be mean. He was big for an Okinawan, and he loved fighting. He added a toughness to my spirit.
My next karate instructor, Gordon Doversola, taught me style. I love the Chinese style of his system, Okiwana-Te. He taught me smoothness, circular movement, camaraderie, Chinese weaponry, and how to appreciate Asian foods.
Yeah Joe seemed to make a lot of "lame" comments about his teachers in Okinawa....
:roflmao:and your teacher taught him how to order from a menu :rofl:
Matt Stone
Master of Arts
Though I'm officially "on sabbatical" from the forums these days, I felt compelled to respond to Handgrape's obvious civilian-born assumptions...
Audie Murphy went from Private to Staff Sergeant to 2nd Lieutenant in 3 years, which would result in a total of between 6 and 11 grades of rank depending on how you counted them... Granted, Murphy was a unique case, but the point remains that stranger things have happened...
Actually, while the US Army (the only service I can speak about authoritatively) takes all situations soldiers have seriously, it must be understood that the Sole Surviving Son/Daughter exclusion is very narrow in scope and applies to only a very small number of soldiers.
Taken from AR 635-200, Enlisted Separations:
5-4. General
a. Commanders specified in paragraph 1-19 will approve requests for separation for the convenience of the Government of soldiers who qualify per this section as surviving sons or daughters.
b. Separation under this section is not authorized —
(1) During a period of war or national emergency declared by the Congress.
(2) When a soldier who qualified per this section has waived status as surviving son or daughter.
(a) A soldier who has waived such status may request reinstatement of that status; however, reinstatement will not necessarily provide a basis for separation under this section. Each case will be considered on its individual merits.
(b) A soldier who has been advised of this section and who enlists, re-enlists, or otherwise voluntarily extends his/her active duty period after the date of notification of the family casualty on which the surviving status is based, will be considered to have automatically waived his/her rights for separation under this section.
(3) When a soldier —
(a) Has court-martial charges pending.
(b) Has been tried and convicted by court-martial, and the case is being reviewed or appealed.
(c) Is serving a sentence (or otherwise undergoing punishment) imposed by court-martial.
(d) Is being processed for involuntary administrative separation for cause.
5-5. Definitions
The following definitions apply to terms used in this section:
a. The "surviving son" or "surviving daughter" is any son or daughter in a family whose parent or one or more sons or daughters served in the Armed Forces of the United States and —
(1) Was killed in action.
(2) Died as a result of wounds, accident, or disease while serving in the U.S. Armed Forces.
(3) Is in a captured or missing-in-action status.
(4) Is permanently 100 percent physically disabled or 100 percent mentally disabled due to service connection, as determined by the Department of Veterans' Affairs or one of the military services, and is not gainfully employed because of such disability.
b. "Armed Forces of the United States" denotes collectively all components of the Army, Navy, Air Force, Marine Corps, and Coast Guard.
Does that explain things plainly enough for you? Research before speaking, always a good plan...
Well, since from my own first hand experience watching the JGSDF conduct bayonet fighting practice, naginata, sword and short sword (either together or singly), etc., it would seem that those practices are still part and parcel of Japanese military training. Of course, you were referencing the Navy, but I suspect what is trained possesses (or possessed) a fairly common thread during WWII.
Enjoy.
:asian:
Handgrape said:
Audie Murphy went from Private to Staff Sergeant to 2nd Lieutenant in 3 years, which would result in a total of between 6 and 11 grades of rank depending on how you counted them... Granted, Murphy was a unique case, but the point remains that stranger things have happened...
Actually, while the US Army (the only service I can speak about authoritatively) takes all situations soldiers have seriously, it must be understood that the Sole Surviving Son/Daughter exclusion is very narrow in scope and applies to only a very small number of soldiers.
Taken from AR 635-200, Enlisted Separations:
5-4. General
a. Commanders specified in paragraph 1-19 will approve requests for separation for the convenience of the Government of soldiers who qualify per this section as surviving sons or daughters.
b. Separation under this section is not authorized —
(1) During a period of war or national emergency declared by the Congress.
(2) When a soldier who qualified per this section has waived status as surviving son or daughter.
(a) A soldier who has waived such status may request reinstatement of that status; however, reinstatement will not necessarily provide a basis for separation under this section. Each case will be considered on its individual merits.
(b) A soldier who has been advised of this section and who enlists, re-enlists, or otherwise voluntarily extends his/her active duty period after the date of notification of the family casualty on which the surviving status is based, will be considered to have automatically waived his/her rights for separation under this section.
(3) When a soldier —
(a) Has court-martial charges pending.
(b) Has been tried and convicted by court-martial, and the case is being reviewed or appealed.
(c) Is serving a sentence (or otherwise undergoing punishment) imposed by court-martial.
(d) Is being processed for involuntary administrative separation for cause.
5-5. Definitions
The following definitions apply to terms used in this section:
a. The "surviving son" or "surviving daughter" is any son or daughter in a family whose parent or one or more sons or daughters served in the Armed Forces of the United States and —
(1) Was killed in action.
(2) Died as a result of wounds, accident, or disease while serving in the U.S. Armed Forces.
(3) Is in a captured or missing-in-action status.
(4) Is permanently 100 percent physically disabled or 100 percent mentally disabled due to service connection, as determined by the Department of Veterans' Affairs or one of the military services, and is not gainfully employed because of such disability.
b. "Armed Forces of the United States" denotes collectively all components of the Army, Navy, Air Force, Marine Corps, and Coast Guard.
Does that explain things plainly enough for you? Research before speaking, always a good plan...
Well, since from my own first hand experience watching the JGSDF conduct bayonet fighting practice, naginata, sword and short sword (either together or singly), etc., it would seem that those practices are still part and parcel of Japanese military training. Of course, you were referencing the Navy, but I suspect what is trained possesses (or possessed) a fairly common thread during WWII.
Enjoy.
:asian:
Gentlemen,
Enough sniping.
Enough sniping.
RRouuselot
Master of Arts
Kaith Rustaz said:
:deadhorse:snipe: sorry.........couldn't resist.........
RRouuselot
Master of Arts
Matt,Matt Stone said:
Japanese Military Officers were either issued or possed their own katana. The issued katana were what is known as "gunto" (I think, I will check) cheap blades that were massed produced.......since they were expected to carry a sword then it would make sense they were taught how to use it........no?
Mr. Oyata learned sword from an Okinawan....possible outside his military training...( I will ask him next week when I see him).....I think it might be safe to say that he learned several arts while in the military but not all of it was in the form of "military" training.
Matt Stone
Master of Arts
RRouuselot said:
One would think so... Gunto are, as far as I am aware, the preferred objects to obtain for sword students as they are relatively easy to obtain, far cheaper than a "proper" sword (gunto run around $400 US in Japan), and are still shinken...
This could be similar to the kung fu I teach some soldiers... They learn it while they are in the military, but they learn it outside the scope of their daily training/duties.
Whatever. Mr. Oyata is legitimate in the books of every person I've ever run across, and only on the internet from people with shady histories have I ever found anyone that questioned his legitimacy.
See you around the net... Back to lurking...
:asian:
RRouuselot
Master of Arts
In order to track down who "Handgrape" actually is and his relationship to Okinawa Te I made an inguiry by calling Dr. Khoury listed on this URL http://www.okinawate.com/
Dr. Khoury informed that "Handgrape" was actually about 30 something, overweight and lving in Southern Cal. and was not associated with either group of Okinawa Te, and was sort of a shodan but not from either group. (Evidently there has been a split in the Okinawa Te Assoc.) Dr. Khoury said the Okinawa Te split was caused by a lack of supporting evidence to the claims of the founder of Okinawa Te a Mr. Gordon Doversola in regards to an Okinawan connection. (interesting) He added that they could not find any connection to Okinawa, nor could they find any of the teachers mentioned by Mr. Gordon Doversola. Dr. Khoury also added that "Handgrape" actually started his "own style" (groan) and would only occasionaly show up for Okinawa Te events. Dr. Khoury said he did not approve of "Handgrape" making any sort of connection to their assoc. or dojo on these boards since "Handgrape" was not a member and did not reflect thier opinions and disaproved of some of the comment made by "Handgrape". He also mentioned that Joe Lewis was kicked out of the Okinawa Te Assoc.....he didn't say what for.
After talking to Dr. Khoury for about 20+ minutes at my own expense from Tokyo I got the feeling that he was a sincere martial artist and enjoys what he teaches. We exchanged some personal info and I may visit him in the future if I get to the Bay area of SF.
So Mr. "Handgrape" or should I use your real name???? C.K. isn't it??? I do not like your off handed "death threat" in your last post.......in fact I am seriously considering conacting a legal office about this. I have sent you an email so you have my email address........so you might want to cough up an apology.
Dr. Khoury informed that "Handgrape" was actually about 30 something, overweight and lving in Southern Cal. and was not associated with either group of Okinawa Te, and was sort of a shodan but not from either group. (Evidently there has been a split in the Okinawa Te Assoc.) Dr. Khoury said the Okinawa Te split was caused by a lack of supporting evidence to the claims of the founder of Okinawa Te a Mr. Gordon Doversola in regards to an Okinawan connection. (interesting) He added that they could not find any connection to Okinawa, nor could they find any of the teachers mentioned by Mr. Gordon Doversola. Dr. Khoury also added that "Handgrape" actually started his "own style" (groan) and would only occasionaly show up for Okinawa Te events. Dr. Khoury said he did not approve of "Handgrape" making any sort of connection to their assoc. or dojo on these boards since "Handgrape" was not a member and did not reflect thier opinions and disaproved of some of the comment made by "Handgrape". He also mentioned that Joe Lewis was kicked out of the Okinawa Te Assoc.....he didn't say what for.
After talking to Dr. Khoury for about 20+ minutes at my own expense from Tokyo I got the feeling that he was a sincere martial artist and enjoys what he teaches. We exchanged some personal info and I may visit him in the future if I get to the Bay area of SF.
So Mr. "Handgrape" or should I use your real name???? C.K. isn't it??? I do not like your off handed "death threat" in your last post.......in fact I am seriously considering conacting a legal office about this. I have sent you an email so you have my email address........so you might want to cough up an apology.
