Saitama Steve
Blue Belt
Thanks Rob.
That was great.
That was great.
RRouuselot said:
Okinawa-Te.
- Thread starter arnisador
- Start date
RRouuselot
Master of Arts
Saitama Steve said:
No problemo......when is the next Tokyo Booze up by the way???
I'm thinkin' Hobgobblin or Dubliners........what do ya think?
Saitama Steve
Blue Belt
Sounds good mate. Never been to the Knob Goblin. Dubliners sometimes bores me to tears.
BTW, I'll be leaving Japan next month, so this will be my last drink up for a few years.
BTW, I'll be leaving Japan next month, so this will be my last drink up for a few years.
Phoenix Eye.?
What are you saying he is a Southern Praying Mantis student now? That just might make sense. Motobu did seem to have a similar stance but not defense. I thought knuckle was fushi? hitostu fushi no butsu ne. I can't see knuckles as long? Maybe that is an old way of saying it. Either way One Long Fist doesn't mean phoenix eye. Handgrape is a joke based on the transliteration I'll give you points if you figure it out. Grapes are very special to martial arts of Japan. But you can't ask you have to know.
Ask Joe what he thought of Gordon and his students such as Mark Galvin. Who would regularly hand Joe his ***. True Joe was a rock compared to Mark who was more technically proficient than Joe would ever be. So Mark would choose not to fight Joe sometimes only because Joe would only do it to see how much Mark would be able to take. But there was no doubt who was the better fighter. Mark wins hands down over anyone I know even into his 60's. And Gordon was much better than Mark and Joe put together. That is why many great's give him the credit for making them great. Are you calling Jim Kelly a shotokan stylist? I am saying he trained with us to win the Hunnington (long?) Beach classic. And this was after people thought he was great. Check Black belt article "Where's Jim Kelly Now." Kelly was actually one of the best martial athletes I have heard of. Even faster than Bruce. BTW what system do you teach? I have never heard any complaints about the kata, infact I have people knocking down my door from across country to teach them kata like the Bear or Falling Leaf. Because their forms suck because they are not in the context of fighting. At least people don't look at our forms and say how boring, a pattern? It takes much longer to learn an Okinawa-te kata than any other kata. Especially when it is 275 moves on top of learning the application to each move. It was the Okinawa-te green belts that were forced to wear black belts in tournaments because the other styles were afraid of what they would do to their innocent students. We terrorized the tournaments, and you call us farse, Until the rules were change to not allow grabs and low kicks. You sir don't know your American Martial art history. How old are you? Ask anyone who has had a formal martial training in Te and compare it to any other system in the world and which comes out ahead? Would they ever trade their training for anything else? Are you afraid to admit that anyone can come up with an effective martial art with little to no training. Again, you don't know the martial art masters. Musashi, Motobu, Bruce Lee, These people had very little training and went on to be regarded as masters. Musashi said he taught himself everything without any teacher. "It is not for everyone to be without a teacher" (no, only the masters) Think about this: How many Te schools are there compared to the various Ryu branches in America alone. What about Tae Kwon do? And who came first? I rest my case. How long to get your black belt vs. how many black belts in Te. Most people can name the real black belts off the top of their head.
RR-
Again, Again, the Han invaded China. NOT OKINAWA. OKINAWA was the retreat. (I thought this was common enough)
and How is regarding Okinawa to China the same as Hawaii is to the US any different that what you said. In 1860 there was no such thing as Shuri-te, Naha-te. That is another transliteration. Check the books the "Masters" wrote, they don't say "Shuri-te" originally. If you know the real name I will be shocked but at least tell me you know that after 29 years.
Sanchin is in Many Chinese martial arts. Pangai Noon, but looks much different. Wing Chun variations also have a similar form. Have you seen Sam boa gin? Gin foon Mark
What are you saying he is a Southern Praying Mantis student now? That just might make sense. Motobu did seem to have a similar stance but not defense. I thought knuckle was fushi? hitostu fushi no butsu ne. I can't see knuckles as long? Maybe that is an old way of saying it. Either way One Long Fist doesn't mean phoenix eye. Handgrape is a joke based on the transliteration I'll give you points if you figure it out. Grapes are very special to martial arts of Japan. But you can't ask you have to know.
Ask Joe what he thought of Gordon and his students such as Mark Galvin. Who would regularly hand Joe his ***. True Joe was a rock compared to Mark who was more technically proficient than Joe would ever be. So Mark would choose not to fight Joe sometimes only because Joe would only do it to see how much Mark would be able to take. But there was no doubt who was the better fighter. Mark wins hands down over anyone I know even into his 60's. And Gordon was much better than Mark and Joe put together. That is why many great's give him the credit for making them great. Are you calling Jim Kelly a shotokan stylist? I am saying he trained with us to win the Hunnington (long?) Beach classic. And this was after people thought he was great. Check Black belt article "Where's Jim Kelly Now." Kelly was actually one of the best martial athletes I have heard of. Even faster than Bruce. BTW what system do you teach? I have never heard any complaints about the kata, infact I have people knocking down my door from across country to teach them kata like the Bear or Falling Leaf. Because their forms suck because they are not in the context of fighting. At least people don't look at our forms and say how boring, a pattern? It takes much longer to learn an Okinawa-te kata than any other kata. Especially when it is 275 moves on top of learning the application to each move. It was the Okinawa-te green belts that were forced to wear black belts in tournaments because the other styles were afraid of what they would do to their innocent students. We terrorized the tournaments, and you call us farse, Until the rules were change to not allow grabs and low kicks. You sir don't know your American Martial art history. How old are you? Ask anyone who has had a formal martial training in Te and compare it to any other system in the world and which comes out ahead? Would they ever trade their training for anything else? Are you afraid to admit that anyone can come up with an effective martial art with little to no training. Again, you don't know the martial art masters. Musashi, Motobu, Bruce Lee, These people had very little training and went on to be regarded as masters. Musashi said he taught himself everything without any teacher. "It is not for everyone to be without a teacher" (no, only the masters) Think about this: How many Te schools are there compared to the various Ryu branches in America alone. What about Tae Kwon do? And who came first? I rest my case. How long to get your black belt vs. how many black belts in Te. Most people can name the real black belts off the top of their head.
RR-
Again, Again, the Han invaded China. NOT OKINAWA. OKINAWA was the retreat. (I thought this was common enough)
and How is regarding Okinawa to China the same as Hawaii is to the US any different that what you said. In 1860 there was no such thing as Shuri-te, Naha-te. That is another transliteration. Check the books the "Masters" wrote, they don't say "Shuri-te" originally. If you know the real name I will be shocked but at least tell me you know that after 29 years.
Sanchin is in Many Chinese martial arts. Pangai Noon, but looks much different. Wing Chun variations also have a similar form. Have you seen Sam boa gin? Gin foon Mark
RR-
BTW about 1/2 of the people you are quoting are hacks. Everyone knows most of the lamers. Many people are trying to promote their schools history. I usually don't bother with martial histories because so many are loaded with so much undeterminable crap it's silly. You get a better understanding of just listing the facts, lived-died, was built in...moved to Shrilanka in... Visited...Married...had nine children...was attacked on...etc. You can almost trust "was a student of... or taught...but not always. For instance Funakoshi was a teacher of Te but didn't teach it in the methodolgy of Shotokan. At least not in the body of standard techniques. The forms were simplified, created, or in some cases had weapons removed (more common than not).
IPK-
Why don't you ask Tadashi Yamashita what he thinks of some of Gordon's students, like John Hanrehan or Mike Pecina?
BTW about 1/2 of the people you are quoting are hacks. Everyone knows most of the lamers. Many people are trying to promote their schools history. I usually don't bother with martial histories because so many are loaded with so much undeterminable crap it's silly. You get a better understanding of just listing the facts, lived-died, was built in...moved to Shrilanka in... Visited...Married...had nine children...was attacked on...etc. You can almost trust "was a student of... or taught...but not always. For instance Funakoshi was a teacher of Te but didn't teach it in the methodolgy of Shotokan. At least not in the body of standard techniques. The forms were simplified, created, or in some cases had weapons removed (more common than not).
IPK-
Why don't you ask Tadashi Yamashita what he thinks of some of Gordon's students, like John Hanrehan or Mike Pecina?
RRouuselot
Master of Arts
Handgrape said:
Really??? Which ones???
How are they lame??? I mean compared to your sources....... which are??????
Oh that' s right you haven't listed any.....
RRouuselot
Master of Arts
From your previous post:Handgrape said:
From this run on sentence it is hard to gather whether you are saying some island in Okinawa was invaded or what. From your writing style it's hard to gather whether you are a native speaker of English or just someone who is un-educated. Either way make yourself clearer and there will be less confusion when discussing certain subjects.Handgrape said:
To all posters and lurkers on this thread:
It is my opinion that “Handgrape” has only come here to cause trouble.
1) His profile is basically blank. He reminds of a guy that was booted off E-Budo when I was a Mod over there.
2) His first posts were obviously done to cause some commotion.
3) He never states his source for information even when asked.
4) He seems to like to be degrading when asked for more in depth explanations or information
He is a troll.
RRouuselot
Master of Arts
Handgrape said:
Uuuuhhh........the Han are Chinese. I think you actually mean the Mung (Mongolians).
“I thought this was common enough”..........I mean being an “expert” on Asian Studies as you seem to like to portray yourself you should have known something so simple.
RR - It depends on your perspective, but I thouht we were talking about Martial history. The Han invaded the Hagga who are now the oppressed. Some may use the term "inhabited" but I don't call setting fire to the temple inhabiting. The Hagga retreated into mainly Taiwan, which was somehow linked, mainly through Japanese pirates who had settled there to Okinawa and Korea. As the Mogol or Qing were ruled half by the Manchu and half by the Han leftovers the Hagga blame the current people, Han, for thier troubles and that is why Tawianese hate the mainlanders the most. First attacking the Honan temple, which is the only one left standing, and then later attacking and setting fire to the Fujian temple, the South Shaolin monastery. It is important to note that what Shaolin was trying to preserve was from the Tang dynasty. And many of China's dynasties were not Chinese. So the people who believe they have the right to China are not what we would today call Chinese people. They were killed or ousted. And the current Han poplulation although trying to fight it's racism of the Hagga is still plagued with great contempt for these people and visa versa.
RRouuselot
Master of Arts
Handgrape said:
Handgrape said:
........the rest I deleted since it was not worthy of an educated comment and pure :bs1:
Uhhhh not really.
1) You are talking about the Hakka/Hagga?
2) No, they went mainly to South East Asian countries like Malaysia, they are also a good portion of the people that live on the Junks in Hong Kong’s harbor. The people that make up a good portion of Taiwan are from Fuken, the natives of Taiwan are called Ami……
3) Taiwanese don’t really hate the mainlanders; I should know I lived in Taiwan for over 3 years. Why?? Because a good portion of people in Taiwan are from the mainland, they fled from the Commies back in 47~48. Make no mistake the Taiwanese don’t care for Commies but they don’t hate the mainlanders……not all mainlanders are card carrying commies.
Where exactly do you get this screwed up information anyway? Look, not to be rude but until you can supply some sort of source for the information you are posting I am not even going to bother replying to the crap you post up here.
FESTIVALS & FOLK ARTS TAIWAN REPUBLIC OF CHINA ABORIGINES' FESTIVALS ===Copywritten content removed by request===
RRouuselot
Master of Arts
Who are the Hakkas?
===Copywritten content removed by request===
===Copywritten content removed by request===
RRouuselot
Master of Arts
THE HAKKA CONTRIBUTION TO CHINA'S TRANSFORMATION
by P. Richard Bohr
Associate Professor of History and
Director of Asian Studies College of Saint Benedict and Saint John's University Minnesota
===Copywritten content removed by request===by P. Richard Bohr
Associate Professor of History and
Director of Asian Studies College of Saint Benedict and Saint John's University Minnesota
Speaking of teachers who made up thier lineage, Robert, why don't you show proof of your teachers honesty? Not saying he isn't any good as a martial artist but most people know of his embelishments. Pounding your fingers can't break the divine dimesions. Unless you are a midget.
Anyone can paste web articles. That doesn't make them true. Research is not only done on the web. And truth is not found in History books. Not usually. Robert seems to only argue what he can. He didn't approach everything I said. He can't defend his position on his counter BS arguments such as "nonsense". His quote from Richard Bohr for instance doesn't even address anything. We were speaking of a time 200 years ealier. The other message coroborates my statements. Or didn't he read them. To truely understand the Hagga you must be one or know one. How many Taiwanese will agree with these statements?
RRouuselot
Master of Arts
TimoS,
Yup! ThatÂ’s what it would seem like.
However, Handgrape is not the first “deceptive troll” I have seen on these BBs. I actually grow weary of responding to people like him that 1. Don’t have the guts to put their real name in their profile. 2. Can’t support their claims or ideas with any sort of point of reference, be it from the internet or otherwise, then when asked get defense. According to his logic about posting things if I were to post something written by say Stephen Hawking on physics it wouldn’t be something worthy of his time discussing since he says: “I can't argue with someone who pastes other peoples ideas”. But ya know.......a good deal of the information on this BBs is from some other source. People read or hear something, form an opinion, then discuss it. Sometimes they need to post a reference of where or why they came to that conclusion so much the better. A lot of times the information is good and accurate.....
Handgrape seems to think he knows a thing or two about me but refuses to put up any info on himself.....he obviously just wants to play some sort of game here with me and the other members of MT........fine. I say people should ignore this kind of obvious attempt at disruption since any response will just add fuel to his little fire.
Oh and Handgrape....any time you feel like you want to talk....feel free to call that number below durning normal working hours Japan time........let's see....your on the west coast so how many hours difference is that????
Yup! ThatÂ’s what it would seem like.
However, Handgrape is not the first “deceptive troll” I have seen on these BBs. I actually grow weary of responding to people like him that 1. Don’t have the guts to put their real name in their profile. 2. Can’t support their claims or ideas with any sort of point of reference, be it from the internet or otherwise, then when asked get defense. According to his logic about posting things if I were to post something written by say Stephen Hawking on physics it wouldn’t be something worthy of his time discussing since he says: “I can't argue with someone who pastes other peoples ideas”. But ya know.......a good deal of the information on this BBs is from some other source. People read or hear something, form an opinion, then discuss it. Sometimes they need to post a reference of where or why they came to that conclusion so much the better. A lot of times the information is good and accurate.....
Handgrape seems to think he knows a thing or two about me but refuses to put up any info on himself.....he obviously just wants to play some sort of game here with me and the other members of MT........fine. I say people should ignore this kind of obvious attempt at disruption since any response will just add fuel to his little fire.
Oh and Handgrape....any time you feel like you want to talk....feel free to call that number below durning normal working hours Japan time........let's see....your on the west coast so how many hours difference is that????
RRouuselot
Master of Arts
From this URL: http://www.okinawate.co.nz/history.asp
History of Okinawa Te Karate
===Copywritten content removed by request===
1) Can anyone elaborate on this? I am wondering which era this website is referring to. Is it the era when the japanese invaded or before then?
2) I guess the so called “36 Families” from China and all the cultural they brought had nothing to do with it. If anyone looks at any race of people they can find various forms of organized unarmed combat.......
3) Hmmmm.....the “farmer” version....this story has been shot down so many times I can’t believe anyone still thinks there is any truth in it......however, if there is could someone please supply an ounce of evidence that the farmers had ANYTHING to do with the development of te/karate........PLEASE....
4) Unique is an “interesting” word choice to say the least.......I am wondering if anyone in Okinawa ever learned these kata.....
5) “Kihei” Motobu??? Is he supposed to be of the Motobu Ryu line of Motobu or is it someone else??
6) And we all know how realistic movie martial arts are.........
History of Okinawa Te Karate
===Copywritten content removed by request===
1) Can anyone elaborate on this? I am wondering which era this website is referring to. Is it the era when the japanese invaded or before then?
2) I guess the so called “36 Families” from China and all the cultural they brought had nothing to do with it. If anyone looks at any race of people they can find various forms of organized unarmed combat.......
3) Hmmmm.....the “farmer” version....this story has been shot down so many times I can’t believe anyone still thinks there is any truth in it......however, if there is could someone please supply an ounce of evidence that the farmers had ANYTHING to do with the development of te/karate........PLEASE....
4) Unique is an “interesting” word choice to say the least.......I am wondering if anyone in Okinawa ever learned these kata.....
5) “Kihei” Motobu??? Is he supposed to be of the Motobu Ryu line of Motobu or is it someone else??
6) And we all know how realistic movie martial arts are.........
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