oil

[Tez3]

We have electric cars, petrol and diesel cars and also gas cars run on LPG which is very cheap. We even have cars can run on either petrol or gas.

Here I think all cars would be described by Americans as small, if we had the huge cars Americans had we'd run out of road very quickly lol! I think the EU standards for car safety are very stringent, certainly small cars don't seem any less safe than their laeger cousins, here at least but as I said our 'big' cars aren't as big as American cars. Cars over a certain age have to be tested every year and emissions are one of the things they check.

 

[Steve]

small cars, big cars. i don't care. Just make em more environmentally friendly. :angel:

It seems so simple. Doesn't it?

If they made an electiric car that had the same properties that a gas fueled car has, at the same price range then they would fly out of the dealerships. The technology isn't there yet and won't be for a long time. I'm all for any technology that is more efficient. If we could harvest candy canes and use them for fuel that would be fine by me.

Once again, you're betraying your bias through your sarcasm. You seem to like Yahoo. Do some research on the subject. I think that if you do, you'll be genuinely surprised at what's out there. I'd recommend checking out the documentary on the EV1 called "Who Killed the Electric Car?" about an electric car produced by GM as a start. Very interesting story there.

Alternative drivetrains have been around for a long time, but R&D has been suppressed and the collusion at work within the automotive industry is very well documented. As long as there's money to be made with the ICE, the auto industry has no incentive to spend any money developing new technologies. You can't tell me that we can't improve in some significant way over the internal combustion engine running much as it did when invented in the 1860s. Think about the improvements we've made in every single area of our lives since the Civil War. I don't buy it. We're a smart, industrious bunch of mammals and we're still using the internal combustion engine.

We have electric cars, petrol and diesel cars and also gas cars run on LPG which is very cheap. We even have cars can run on either petrol or gas.

Here I think all cars would be described by Americans as small, if we had the huge cars Americans had we'd run out of road very quickly lol! I think the EU standards for car safety are very stringent, certainly small cars don't seem any less safe than their laeger cousins, here at least but as I said our 'big' cars aren't as big as American cars. Cars over a certain age have to be tested every year and emissions are one of the things they check.

Tez, I think you've touched on an important distinction. We have roads that are nice and wide and can accomodate larger vehicles. Small cars are only more dangerous in a collision as a result of basic physics. If you're in a 2500 lbs car and you're hit by an 8000 lbs truck, it's not going to go well for you.

 

[Tez3]

Steve, we have several motorways, dual carriageways (not sure what you call them) but a huge amount of country roads which are actually lanes, these are single lanes which have 'passing places' dotted along them whenever possible. Up here in Yorkshire they have dry stone walls either side, further south it's hedges.
Our biggest trucks still aren't as big as yours, our roads simply wouldn't accomodate them. In Europe, which is probably more akin to America in terms of roads, the trucks are bigger and pull equally big trailers, we can't have that here, there'd be no room to move lol.
Our towns and cities were built in a time when horses and at most horses and carts were the traffic so there's little room to drive large cars. One of the reasons we have so many one way systems is to allow traffic to drive through as many streets aren't wide enough for two way traffice. Most big cities are managed when rebuilding and renovating have managed to make the roads wider.
We have a very busy motorway that runs past us, the A1(M), it was originally Watling Road built by the Romans but it's still only has two lanes either side. some parts are being widened to three lanes per side though but it's a long job.
Of course any car being hit by a truck is going to have a bad time but the strength of the car's 'carcass' is going to have a big effect on safety.

European cars are built differently than American cars, even the Japanese and Korean imports are different from the same name models you have. They are different because of the road conditions we have. In Europe we have very fast motorways, some in Germany have no speed limits on them, other countries have a much higher limit than yourselves.
I'm not a 'car' person lol so this may be a daft question but do you have diesel run cars as well as petrol? I've only ever heard Americans call what they fill their cars up with as 'gas'.

 

[Steve]

Steve, we have several motorways, dual carriageways (not sure what you call them) but a huge amount of country roads which are actually lanes, these are single lanes which have 'passing places' dotted along them whenever possible. Up here in Yorkshire they have dry stone walls either side, further south it's hedges.
Our biggest trucks still aren't as big as yours, our roads simply wouldn't accomodate them. In Europe, which is probably more akin to America in terms of roads, the trucks are bigger and pull equally big trailers, we can't have that here, there'd be no room to move lol.
Our towns and cities were built in a time when horses and at most horses and carts were the traffic so there's little room to drive large cars. One of the reasons we have so many one way systems is to allow traffic to drive through as many streets aren't wide enough for two way traffice. Most big cities are managed when rebuilding and renovating have managed to make the roads wider.
We have a very busy motorway that runs past us, the A1(M), it was originally Watling Road built by the Romans but it's still only has two lanes either side. some parts are being widened to three lanes per side though but it's a long job.
Of course any car being hit by a truck is going to have a bad time but the strength of the car's 'carcass' is going to have a big effect on safety.

European cars are built differently than American cars, even the Japanese and Korean imports are different from the same name models you have. They are different because of the road conditions we have. In Europe we have very fast motorways, some in Germany have no speed limits on them, other countries have a much higher limit than yourselves.
I'm not a 'car' person lol so this may be a daft question but do you have diesel run cars as well as petrol? I've only ever heard Americans call what they fill their cars up with as 'gas'.

I think we agree about the roads. It's been a few years, but what you're describing is what I remember, too. I lived in Germany for 2 years and while the autobahn was nice and wide, around where I lived the roads were narrow and REALLY old. Anyway, all that to say that I think we're on the same page.

For the gas/petrol thing, I don't think I understand the difference. We typically run gasoline or diesel and, at least in my family, only use the term "petrol" when we're trying to be funny with the kids. Audi and VW make great turbo diesels that are very popular, and most big trucks run on diesel. City busses, taxis and such are increasingly running on alternative fuels such as natural gas, but that's not something that the average commuter can afford.

 

[Tez3]

I think we agree about the roads. It's been a few years, but what you're describing is what I remember, too. I lived in Germany for 2 years and while the autobahn was nice and wide, around where I lived the roads were narrow and REALLY old. Anyway, all that to say that I think we're on the same page.

For the gas/petrol thing, I don't think I understand the difference. We typically run gasoline or diesel and, at least in my family, only use the term "petrol" when we're trying to be funny with the kids. Audi and VW make great turbo diesels that are very popular, and most big trucks run on diesel. City busses, taxis and such are increasingly running on alternative fuels such as natural gas, but that's not something that the average commuter can afford.

We have a lot of people converting their cars to 'dual fuel', we're thinking about it at the moment, if only we could dig the car out of the snow lol.

http://www.lpg-vehicles.co.uk/lpg_conversions/lpg_vehicle_conversion.htm

 

[CanuckMA]

NA does not have as many diesel as Europe. One of the reason is that emissions are calculated as Parts Per Million. On that level, diesel is dirtier than petrol. But if you measure as Parts Per Kilometre (or mile), then the greater fuel efficiency of Diesel makes the fuel cleaner.

 

[granfire]

NA does not have as many diesel as Europe. One of the reason is that emissions are calculated as Parts Per Million. On that level, diesel is dirtier than petrol. But if you measure as Parts Per Kilometre (or mile), then the greater fuel efficiency of Diesel makes the fuel cleaner.

'diesel' cars can be converted with little effort to burn vegetable oils or bio diesel, made from old frying oil...

 

[Steve]

NA does not have as many diesel as Europe. One of the reason is that emissions are calculated as Parts Per Million. On that level, diesel is dirtier than petrol. But if you measure as Parts Per Kilometre (or mile), then the greater fuel efficiency of Diesel makes the fuel cleaner.

Only for privately owned vehicles. Just about every auto on the road in the USA that has more than 2 axles runs on a diesel, from semi's to heavy machinery.

The only reason for this, though, is the way that gasoline is subsidized. We're only now beginning to approach the actual cost of gasoline in most of the World. As gasoline prices continue to go up, the extra expense of a TDI will become much more worthwhile.

 

[WC_lun]

Diesel fuel also ignites at a higher temprature, which means a higher compression ratio in diesel engines. This in turn creates a higher, more effecient energy output, which is why diesel is used in vehicles that haul stuff. Gasoline is lighter and has a quicker flash point so it doesn't take as heavy equipment to operate a gasoline engine as a diesel. This means gasoline engine vehicles are usually a lot lighter. Lighter is generally good when talking about driver response and feedback in a passenger/sport car.

 

[granfire]

The only reason for this, though, is the way that gasoline is subsidized. We're only now beginning to approach the actual cost of gasoline in most of the World. As gasoline prices continue to go up, the extra expense of a TDI will become much more worthwhile.

Subsidized? Scary thought considering that most of the price at the pump is taxes...

 

[Steve]

Subsidized? Scary thought considering that most of the price at the pump is taxes...

Subsidized is the wrong word. Controlled? Manipulated? The entire operation is a racket. The prices we pay in America are a balance between apathy and outrage. When gas prices hit $3/gallon there was outrage... until the prices miraculously went back down to just over $2/gallon. But over the last couple of years, they creeped right back up and over $3 without any kind of issue at all.

It'll be the same when it goes to $4/gallon. It'll hit that mark to set the bar, then dip back down before slowly creeping back up and over $4 for good.

 

[granfire]

Subsidized is the wrong word. Controlled? Manipulated? The entire operation is a racket. The prices we pay in America are a balance between apathy and outrage. When gas prices hit $3/gallon there was outrage... until the prices miraculously went back down to just over $2/gallon. But over the last couple of years, they creeped right back up and over $3 without any kind of issue at all.

It'll be the same when it goes to $4/gallon. It'll hit that mark to set the bar, then dip back down before slowly creeping back up and over $4 for good.

Now there I agree with you!
Makes the mob look like boy scouts.

Pre Katrina the gas was below 1,50 around here, shot up to nearly 4 bucks after, that was the only thankgsgiving I noticed the price of gas going down.
But yeah, sun comes out, gas goes up. Holiday, yep up it goes.

I heard in Germany it's totally random...like they throw a dart at a map. naturally rural areas, where you actually NEED that car, it's a bit higher...

4 out of the 5 top conglomerates in business were oil companies...not sure if BP dropped out yet, bringing the UK down with it...
(the 5th was Walmart...)

 

[Blade96]

It seems so simple. Doesn't it?

Yep.

But I know its not. Wish it was though.