Obama's Stealth Socialism

[Big Don]

Their target is people who have no other choice. BoA or WaMu isn't rushing to hand out collateral free loans to Tyrone in Compton.

Nor to Don in Sanger.
Businesses exist to make a profit, Not to be nice to Tyrone, or Don or anydamnbody else, if you have made it this long without learning that, I pity you.

 

[Makalakumu]

Could you rephrase that into a sentence that makes sense?

No.

Is it the responsibility of the government to provide for those who are stupid?

What if you are stupid? What if you need help?

I hope you are "stupid" someday. You might learn something...

That isn't what anyone has said. The ROOT is not that "everyone should be able to buy a home." but, rather that the standards that used to apply to getting a mortgage, (little things) like proving you are capable of making the required payments, were done away with in large part to pander to minorities and the guilty feelings of some (Stupid) white people. Ever hear of a NINJA loan? No INcome, NO Job, NO Assets, should these people get free houses? Where is my free house? I have an income and a job and am only lacking the dishonesty to go to a mortgage broker and lie my way into a house with an adjustable rate.

NINJA please. Don, you have no clue as to how money is created or as to how government works. You only say what other people say. You're just a ****ing poser with no real thoughts.

The fact that people like you foist this crisis on the backs of people who are working three jobs to support their children and STILL cannot afford a house payment says volumes about your character.

I could say lots of things about this, but...I'll leave you with this. What would Jesus think? What did Jesus think of Usury? How did the Old Testament deal with Usury?

If you think about that Don. Maybe we can agree that old school needs to become new age...

BTW, even a fool knows and adjustable rate is ONLY EVER going to get higher, they have these things called FIXED RATE MORTGAGES, which, is what the responsible people get.

Everyone needs credit in order to buy anything substantial. Did you pay cash for your house, car, boat, addition, etc?

What makes you think that you are so responsible? Do you think that other people would agree?

That's what the credit agencies do. You better toe the line or you are ****ed. Can anyone guess why the government is so eager to erode our civil liberties?

 

[Archangel M]

NINJA please. Don, you have no clue as to how money is created or as to how government works. You only say what other people say. You're just a ****ing poser with no real thoughts.

Please is that really necessary? And from a "mentor" none of us can put on our ignore list? We have to put up with your incessant stream of pessimistic, defeatist, conspiracy theory diatribe with no way to "ignore" it so I guess you will have to deal with people you dont like too huh?

 

[Makalakumu]

Please is that really necessary? And from a "mentor" none of us can put on our ignore list? We have to put up with your incessant stream of pessimistic, defeatist, conspiracy theory diatribe with no way to "ignore" it so I guess you will have to deal with people you dont like too huh?

You can ignore me. I'm not a mod.

All of this is WAY too complicated to go around spouting arguments that most people chuck in their junk e-mail.

What else can I say? With the way its going maybe we'll stand together in a bread line someday.

I won't even say I told you so...

 

[tshadowchaser]

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Sheldon Bedell
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[jarrod]

if thier disability were that bad, they would qualify for DISABILITY. Thats why it is there

just wanted to address this point since i can't seem to keep off this thread as promised :lol: they DO qualify for disability (or i assume they do, the regularly compete in the special olympics which i assume are only for special people), but would rather get by on their own work than on public assistance, which i find admirable. i think it's a bit hypocritical to hold the positon that minimum wage shouldn't provide a decent life for workers, & that if you can't do any more than that you should look for public assitance. public assitance is just as much or more of a drain on society as an increased minimum wage would be.

jf

 

[jarrod]

back to the socialist point of this thread...

archangel m, you never addressed my question of why you are concerned with obama's pontential socialism & not with bush's real socialism. i am in no way trying to be antagonistic here, i just really am curious.

for my end, i guess i just don't trust politicians in general. if they are going to screw me, i guess i'd at least like to get dinner & a drink out of it, if you know what i mean.

jf

 

[Twin Fist]

4. Do you really think that the idea that "everyone should be able to buy a home" is the root cause of the financial problems facing this country?

it is sure the cause of the freddie mack and fannie mae debacle

the rest of your post doesnt make any sense to me.

 

[Bob Hubbard]

Businesses colapse because they:
- Fail to offer a good product
- Fail to offer good service
- Fail to innovate
- Fail to compete
- Over extend themselves
- Are managed poorly
- Run out of money

All of the businesses at risk fall into 1 or more of those.

All of the businesses at risk effect hundreds of thousands of people.

So keeping them in place seems like a good idea. But it doesn't seem right to reward failure.

As to gov. programs aimed at the 'less fortunate', temporary ones are fine though not the role of the Federal.

 

[Twin Fist]

I agree Bob, it does feel wrong, but it might just be needed. I am pretty sure I said that somewhere...............

 

[Flying Crane]

I did

raising that wage raised the price of a hamburger,and IMO, it is out of hand

Then take your own advice: go out and get a better paying job so you can buy a hamburger.

 

[Sukerkin]

All "rewarding failure" will do is postpone the inevitable adjustment that will have to be made.

You know that I am in favour of national control of essential resources because market forces cannot be trusted to handle their distribution well.

However, the Stock Market and associated financial sector (which I have worked in (very briefly)), altho' a classic free market business on the surface, have been buoyed up to unrealistic price levels by business practices that would be considered illegal in any other venture.

The debt must be serviced (which can include it being written off over time in the accounts), prices must fall and the market restabalise at a realistic equilibrium. It's basic 'A' level economics.

The fallout of that will be bad but it cannot be stopped forever. Propping it up now so it doesn't 'spoil' the charade ... sorry, I mean "election" obviously ... will only make the fall harder when it comes.

 

[Twin Fist]

Then take your own advice: go out and get a better paying job so you can buy a hamburger.

here's a better idea. YOU give YOUR money to them

leave mine alone.

 

[Flying Crane]

here's a better idea. YOU give YOUR money to them

leave mine alone.

I do. When I go out to eat, I read the menu and make a decision whether or not I am willing to pay the price. If I decide it's reasonable, then I stay and have dinner. And I tip above the norm, because I have worked as a waiter and I know it's a lousy job and a lot of hard work and a lot of people tip poorly.

If I decide the price isn't reasonable, I eat elsewhere. And I don't complain about it.

It's like any business transaction: you decide it's either worth it, or you don't. And if I think the price is too high, I look elsewhere. I don't blame the wages of the employees for it. They are just average schmoes like me trying to make a living and pay the rent and put food on their own tables, and even pay the medical bills if they need to see a doctor.

Maybe you make too much for what you do...

you are being a hypocrite.

 

[theletch1]

Gentlemen, ten posts back was a moderator warning to keep the discussion polite. The rules of this forum are to attack the message not the messenger. This is the last warning that will be placed in this thread before it gets a lock. The name calling, bickering and just plain childishness must stop for intelligent discussion to continue.

 

[Flying Crane]

My apologies if something I've said has been taken as a personal insult. Sometimes when issues are couched in personal terms, they take on a new and more real meaning and I was trying to get that point of view across.

 

[Twin Fist]

no sweat from me FC. You know I think the world of you.

 

[Empty Hands]

Well then, I am perfectly willing to call you a liar publicly, I will, on rare occasions, however, I was raised to believe that was impolite, even when the lie is public, so I kept it private. My apologies for showing you that little bit of respect.

Calling someone a liar anonymously is not respectful. At least have the courage to put forth your claims where they can be seen and countered publicly.

Of course, I am not surprised that you need to see me as a liar. Your stated beliefs demand it.

 

[Bob Hubbard]

Gents, if you must take shots, please reserve the dueling field and have your seconds forward the deposit. Otherwise please cut it out. The debate's fine and the differing views welcome but too much venom and sniping and you run the risk of losing access to this section. I'd prefer not to see that.
Thanks.

 

[5-0 Kenpo]

If you are for socialism, then just say so.

I do not understand how people argue positions that are clearly socialist economics, and then say that they are capitalists.

Be proud of your socialism.

Unless there is something wrong with socialism.....