Non-Wing Chun

Non-WC guy in a WC forum (though I did train WC for about 1 1/2 years in 1985-1986, if that counts for anything). My opinions, for what they're worth:

  1. I already mentioned how easy it is to find oneself in a WC subforum by using the "Active Topics" button. I generally try to stay out of any technical discussion. It seems like when you guys get into technical discussions, they go well for a while. Sometimes, they devolve into different branches arguing, but it's usually WC guys arguing... so that's something.
  2. I like big picture discussions. I can get into the weeds on some things, but that's not what I usually enjoy. Other people like discussions about the details. So, where one person cares deeply about where to point your toes in a technique, I'm more interested in why you think that's more important. Just what makes me tick, and I don't see anything wrong with either approach.
  3. Regarding the ignore feature, I really like @Buka 's recommendation and that's generally how I've always done it. I put people on ignore for a while, until I can regain a little perspective, and then I take them off. I think it's a shame when folks talk about putting people on ignore forever. I have a **** list, for sure, but I can't imagine holding a grudge forever. That's pretty severe, and makes me wonder if that person shuts people out like that in real life, too. And then I feel sorry for that person.
  4. I think coordinated "ignore" parties is a terrible idea, akin to ostracizing someone. I could never be a part of something as intentionally mean and petty as that. It just feels really wrong to me, and very juvenile. There's already a function for people who cannot participate on the forum, and that's the ban function that moderators already employ.
  5. I don't think anyone who has posted here regularly for more than a year, much less over 3 1/2 years, is a simple troll. At some point, folks have some skin in the game, and there's something about the community here that they enjoy. Dismissing them as a troll says more about you than them.
 
yak sao said:
Jobo, I've actually defended you a bit to others saying that if we knew you in person we might actually get along or at leaat disagree with each other in a civil way.
I'm here to say....boy was I WRONG!!!
Click to expand...
it wasnt me that decided to make it personal, that was your friend, its a reoccuring theme on here

but i dont understand why youd think id want to associate with you in the real world ?
 
I don't think anyone objects to martial artists or even people thinking about training participating in style specific fora that they don't have expertise in. This is about trolling. Which we have a clear definition of it here. It makes some people happy.

In real life things get settled differently. We live in the world, being part of a on-line martial arts community is optional. Maybe the better martial artists are the ones who check out and stop posting, rather than taking the bait.
 
Which in lays the problem. If you have people getting so frustrated that they just leave the community then we need to address the issues. I agree that's its an extreme measure. But the people trolling aren't going to be bothered by being ignored. And I don't want them to be banned because I'm sure they love the forum as much as me. But when someone refuses to act as an adult. Sometimes you must treat them like a child. I have no interest in shutting out people who are actively trying to discuss or add insight. But trolling is detrimental to the health of the overall community and needs to be stopped
 
@Highlander I've participated in WC discussions in the past because the WC community is a rather unique one within Chinese martial arts. They have a genuine desire to be viewed as an effective MA by the MA community at large, but are seemingly held back by the dogma of their system. It's almost exactly what happened to Bruce Lee, which led him to found his own system of Martial Arts.

That paradigm leads to some rather interesting conversations and observations, which consistently piques my curiosity as a practitioner of a MMA.
 
Hanzou said:
@Highlander I've participated in WC discussions in the past because the WC community is a rather unique one within Chinese martial arts. They have a genuine desire to be viewed as an effective MA by the MA community at large, but are seemingly held back by the dogma of their system. It's almost exactly what happened to Bruce Lee, which led him to found his own system of Martial Arts.

That paradigm leads to some rather interesting conversations and observations, which consistently piques my curiosity as a practitioner of a MMA.
Click to expand...

I genuinely find this an interesting view. Looking at it from the wing chun side, the wing chun community doesn't really give two hoots what the MMA community think. The wing chun practitioners are not on the MMA forums rubbishing MMA and declaring wing chun superior, it is nearly always the other way round...and...

It's not the big wing chun names producing MMA fighters or seeking accolades, Alan Orr for example is Robert Chu's student, but Robert Chu is not pushing for his lineage to be plastered over the style.
The MMA Vs Wing chun fights repeatedly Appear to be smalltime MMA fighters arranging fights with small time wing chun practitioners and then doing a big song and dance over it. I think this is more about the general poor quality of wing chun (the most widespread unregulated tcma) and the fact that a lot of MMA practitioners seem to feel they have some how beaten a Bruce Lee equivalent in a Wing chun hobbyist.


There seems to be a real desire in the MMA community to attack wing chun with a passion not present for other tcma.

Also.bruce Lee did not learn all of the wing chun curriculum, he got a bit into second form and then Ip Man stopped teaching him. Bruce Lee looked to fill his missing curriculum from other arts, but interestingly applied his wing chun principles to it.
 
Snark said:
I genuinely find this an interesting view. Looking at it from the wing chun side, the wing chun community doesn't really give two hoots what the MMA community think. The wing chun practitioners are not on the MMA forums rubbishing MMA and declaring wing chun superior, it is nearly always the other way round...and...

It's not the big wing chun names producing MMA fighters or seeking accolades, Alan Orr for example is Robert Chu's student, but Robert Chu is not pushing for his lineage to be plastered over the style.
The MMA Vs Wing chun fights repeatedly Appear to be smalltime MMA fighters arranging fights with small time wing chun practitioners and then doing a big song and dance over it. I think this is more about the general poor quality of wing chun (the most widespread unregulated tcma) and the fact that a lot of MMA practitioners seem to feel they have some how beaten a Bruce Lee equivalent in a Wing chun hobbyist.


There seems to be a real desire in the MMA community to attack wing chun with a passion not present for other tcma.

Also.bruce Lee did not learn all of the wing chun curriculum, he got a bit into second form and then Ip Man stopped teaching him. Bruce Lee looked to fill his missing curriculum from other arts, but interestingly applied his wing chun principles to it.
Click to expand...
well you clearly give at least one hoot, that youve bother to make a post on what the mma guys think of wc
 
Snark said:
I genuinely find this an interesting view. Looking at it from the wing chun side, the wing chun community doesn't really give two hoots what the MMA community think. The wing chun practitioners are not on the MMA forums rubbishing MMA and declaring wing chun superior, it is nearly always the other way round...and...
Click to expand...

WC practitioners aren't in MMA forums rubbishing MMA because WC practitioners have no leg to stand on in terms of "rubbishing" MMA given their multiple attempts to make it a viable MA style in the MMA format.

Further, someone like myself observing WC from outside and commenting on their MMA pushes isn't "rubbishing" the style.

It's not the big wing chun names producing MMA fighters or seeking accolades, Alan Orr for example is Robert Chu's student, but Robert Chu is not pushing for his lineage to be plastered over the style.
The MMA Vs Wing chun fights repeatedly Appear to be smalltime MMA fighters arranging fights with small time wing chun practitioners and then doing a big song and dance over it. I think this is more about the general poor quality of wing chun (the most widespread unregulated tcma) and the fact that a lot of MMA practitioners seem to feel they have some how beaten a Bruce Lee equivalent in a Wing chun hobbyist.
Click to expand...

Just FYI, Alan Orr isn't a big name in MMA. He has some notoriety because he's attempted to bring WC into MMA, but a big name person? Nah.

There seems to be a real desire in the MMA community to attack wing chun with a passion not present for other tcma.

Also.bruce Lee did not learn all of the wing chun curriculum, he got a bit into second form and then Ip Man stopped teaching him. Bruce Lee looked to fill his missing curriculum from other arts, but interestingly applied his wing chun principles to it.
Click to expand...

Yeah, again, the MMA community only "attacks" WC when WC enters the MMA sphere, such as when lunatics like Shawn Obasi enter the MMA sphere pushing WC and face plant hard. Even then, I wouldn't call it attacking, it's more like pointing and laughing.

Also Bruce Lee became a mixed martial artist because he found Wing Chun and traditional Kung Fu in general lacking when he went up against boxers and wrestlers. He wrote about this himself, specifically saying that the traditional aspects of WC dragged it down.
 
Hanzou said:
WC practitioners aren't in MMA forums rubbishing MMA because WC practitioners have no leg to stand on in terms of "rubbishing" MMA given their multiple attempts to make it a viable MA style in the MMA format.

Further, someone like myself observing WC from outside and commenting on their MMA pushes isn't "rubbishing" the style.



Just FYI, Alan Orr isn't a big name in MMA. He has some notoriety because he's attempted to bring WC into MMA, but a big name person? Nah.



Yeah, again, the MMA community only "attacks" WC when WC enters the MMA sphere, such as when lunatics like Shawn Obasi enter the MMA sphere pushing WC and face plant hard. Even then, I wouldn't call it attacking, it's more like pointing and laughing.

Also Bruce Lee became a mixed martial artist because he found Wing Chun and traditional Kung Fu in general lacking when he went up against boxers and wrestlers. He wrote about this himself, specifically saying that the traditional aspects of WC dragged it down.
Click to expand...


Chill out, your not doing your blood pressure any favours.

Thanks for coming to a wing chun forum and providing case and point.

Saying wc practitioners don't have a leg to stand on.. the MMA community points and laughs and then claiming your not rubbishing the style just makes you sound inconsistent and salty.

I didn't say Alan Orr was a big name.. I said the big names in wing chun aren't producing MMA fighters. Your either angry and not reading what I wrote or "you dont read so good"

Can you point to an actual quote from Bruce lee where he says this, because it sounds like a lot of the sales pitch of some of the people around him after he died. Direct me to a quote from Bruce lee, pretty sure you can't.
 
jobo said:
well you clearly give at least one hoot, that youve bother to make a post on what the mma guys think of wc
Click to expand...

Thanks for providing a perfect example of one twit does not a hoot make.
 
Snark said:
Chill out, your not doing your blood pressure any favours.

Thanks for coming to a wing chun forum and providing case and point.

Saying wc practitioners don't have a leg to stand on.. the MMA community points and laughs and then claiming your not rubbishing the style just makes you sound inconsistent and salty.
Click to expand...

Yeah, read what I said again; I said that WC practitioners attacking MMA would make zero sense because there are numerous WC exponents trying to enter MMA. Hence, they wouldn't have a "leg to stand on".

I didn't say Alan Orr was a big name.. I said the big names in wing chun aren't producing MMA fighters. Your either angry and not reading what I wrote or "you dont read so good"
Click to expand...

Yet you mentioned Alan Orr, but okay...

Big names in WC aren't producing MMA fighters because they know what would happen if they tried. WC has had multiple opportunities to enter MMA and it has fallen flat each time.

Can you point to an actual quote from Bruce lee where he says this, because it sounds like a lot of the sales pitch of some of the people around him after he died. Direct me to a quote from Bruce lee, pretty sure you can't.
Click to expand...

It's in the Tao of Jeet kun Do. You do know that there are no forms in JKD right? There's a reason for that.
 
Hanzou said:
Yeah, read what I said again; I said that WC practitioners attacking MMA would make zero sense because there are numerous WC exponents trying to enter MMA. Hence, they wouldn't have a "leg to stand on".



Yet you mentioned Alan Orr, but okay...

Big names in WC aren't producing MMA fighters because they know what would happen if they tried. WC has had multiple opportunities to enter MMA and it has fallen flat each time.



It's in the Tao of Jeet kun Do. You do know that there are no forms in JKD right? There's a reason for that.
Click to expand...

Ooooh right... So when you wrote..
"Wing Chun and traditional Kung Fu in general lacking when he went up against boxers and wrestlers. He wrote about this himself, specifically saying that the traditional aspects of WC dragged it down"

....your saying this is in the Tao of jeet kun do, i have the book right here. Can you tell me the page on which this very specific quote is in it... Because it just doesn't seem to be here. Yes he has a moan about the formalities of martial artistry and the problems with not doing contact sparring. But where did he write what you said.

I mean I can direct you to a quote where he criticises boxing and combat sports but not what you said... Where is it?
 
Snark said:
Ooooh right... So when you wrote..
"Wing Chun and traditional Kung Fu in general lacking when he went up against boxers and wrestlers. He wrote about this himself, specifically saying that the traditional aspects of WC dragged it down"

....your saying this is in the Tao of jeet kun do, i have the book right here. Can you tell me the page on which this very specific quote is in it... Because it just doesn't seem to be here. Yes he has a moan about the formalities of martial artistry and the problems with not doing contact sparring. But where did he write what you said.

I mean I can direct you to a quote where he criticises boxing and combat sports but not what you said... Where is it?
Click to expand...

So you're saying that Bruce Lee never stated the following;

"Anyone with a year of boxing and wrestling experience could beat a 20-year martial artist."

It's a famous quote attributed to him, and it's part of the reason he created JKD. When I said it's in the Tao of JKD, I'm saying that that quote is the underlying purpose of why the art was created in the first place, and why the art has no forms/kata.

I hope that helps.
 
Bruce Lee created JKD because he moved to the US as a teenager and had no opportunity to continue formal training. He tried to return to it, but was denied. As a WC I can't tell you how exhausting it is to have to keep saying that.

I can also tell you that I don't give a **** about the UFC. I did 3 or 4 years of boxing and about the same amount of Muay Thai before I took my first Wing Chun class.

I chose Wing Chun because I like it and it works for me. It was an informed decision. Aside from a few crackpots or highly commercial lineages, none of us are trying to convince people who prefer something else that we are superior, but we get torn down by MMA people and people with opinions about Bruce Lee rentlessly.
 
Last edited:
Bruce Lee had maybe 2 or 3 years wing chun max under his belt.
He didn't have any footwork to speak of from wing chun because he never saw it...but rather than say he never saw it he said wing chun didn't have it.

It's like quitting school in 3rd grade and saying it didn't adequately prepare you for life.
 
Hanzou said:
So you're saying that Bruce Lee never stated the following;

"Anyone with a year of boxing and wrestling experience could beat a 20-year martial artist."

It's a famous quote attributed to him, and it's part of the reason he created JKD. When I said it's in the Tao of JKD, I'm saying that that quote is the underlying purpose of why the art was created in the first place, and why the art has no forms/kata.

I hope that helps.
Click to expand...


It helps plenty. It's clarified your full of contradictions and hot air. You claim he WROTE wing chun and Kung Fu was lacking and limiting... You even gave a name of a book and then you claim bruce Lee must have meant this in some passing comment he allegedly made, Not even directly from him when he's vaguely referring to martial arts And what you rely on to justify this is a
quote which first came from
Eddie Bravo a bjj guy who never even met him.

I had never even read a Bruce Lee book until this evening, and everything in the Tao of jeet kuen do is in wing chun. Brucey should have stayed in school.

The rest of your claims about wing chun are all nebulous with no facts and thinly veiled opinion pieces.

Man your just living up to a stereotype. Honestly I've wasted too much time already on this. Have a great evening and whatever.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Maxims... lets try again

Previous Thread

Hit with the Body

Next Thread

Similar threads

D
Movement towards Wing Chun in competition???
Replies
11
Views
2K
KamonGuy2
K
S
Wing Chun Kickers
2 3
Replies
53
Views
5K
Si-Je
Si-Je
C
Wing Chun Guiding Principle
Replies
16
Views
2K
Callen
C
dosk3n
What do you call yourself.
Replies
18
Views
2K
matsu
M
K
Different Wing Chun systems
Replies
18
Views
4K
yipman_sifu
yipman_sifu

Latest Discussions

Back
Top