Wing Chun Kickers

[KamonGuy2]

Two thoughts that come to mind. 1, You block a punch 'bone to bone', so isn't blocking as a concept a bad idea?

2, You never see Wing Chun in UFC. So, if blocking with your hands is a bad idea, wouldn't that mean you just said that training in Wing Chun is a bad idea?

Just thoughts

1. No. Some blocks are acceptable. If someone gives you an uppercut, you can block with guan sao as it has dominant energy.
A kick usually contains power at the end (the foot) and you can sometimes intercept by blocking the knee/thigh, which is what I thought you were doing. You have since stated that you use guan sao against the persons foot, where the full blast of the kick is. Any block where you are attempting to stop a larger force coming in with a smaller bone is a bad idea. Yet if you change either the force of the attack coming in or the size of the bone you are blocking with, blocks can be useful

2. Not really understanding your logic. Many UFC fighters have trained in wing chun and some good MMA fighters started out with wing chun.
The wing chun I train never blocks kicks with hands, and to be honest, any wing chun that teaches you that should not be trained

I appreciate SiJe's post which describes the stopping of kicks as deflections rather than blocks. But Cuong you have said that you use guan sao which is not really a deflection

 

[CuongNhuka]

2. Not really understanding your logic. Many UFC fighters have trained in wing chun and some good MMA fighters started out with wing chun.
....
But Cuong you have said that you use guan sao which is not really a deflection

Really? I don't recall hearing Wing Chun announced as the style of any of the fighters in (say) the UFC, PRIDE, K1, so on. Maybe in local associations, but I've never heard of a Wing Chun player in the more popular groups.

When did I say Guan Sao? How can I say "use technique X" when I'm not even completely sure what technique X is? I'm pretty sure I know what you're talking about, and if so, I didn't say to use that tech.

 

[KamonGuy2]

Really? I don't recall hearing Wing Chun announced as the style of any of the fighters in (say) the UFC, PRIDE, K1, so on. Maybe in local associations, but I've never heard of a Wing Chun player in the more popular groups.

When did I say Guan Sao? How can I say "use technique X" when I'm not even completely sure what technique X is? I'm pretty sure I know what you're talking about, and if so, I didn't say to use that tech.

It was that the discussion was turning to hand techniques against a foot, and the only one I have ever seen work against a fairly good kicker was a guan sao.

Pak sao and fuk sao against a kick is just silly. And one of the fundamentals of wing chun is lower half vs. lower half and upper half vs. upper half

As for the UFC fighters, most of them do not mention wing chun due to its bad reputation in cage fighting. Although there have been a couple of good fighters mention doing it

Sifu Kevin Chan, Sifu Alan Orr both have very heavy involvement in MMA. I can't speak for Orr as I do not know him that well, but Kevin Chan has judged UFC events and helped train fighters for the UFC

 

[CuongNhuka]

Pak sao and fuk sao against a kick is just silly.

-sighs and moves on-

 

[KamonGuy2]

-sighs and moves on-

Don't say I didn't warn ya

 

[barnaby]

our school teaches that the hand assists the foot, not the other way around, and that every step is a kick. just food for thought if you've never heard those little phrases.

any hand gesture we as Wing Chun practitioners know might find its place against a kick -- depending on the position. silly is looking at the vast numbers of possibilities in fighting and saying one of the limited numbers of ways of moving should never be done in some circumstance. it just depends.

I heard a rumor that Bruce Lee felt the need to send Yip Man a large sum of money due to the guilt he felt for cross training for these sorts of kicks mentioned, and seen in his films. Don't care how true it is, just think it's a funny story.

 

[Spartan]

So where exactly did Bruce Lee's powerful side kick (the one that he demonstrated at Ed Parker's karate expo), come from?

 

[zDom]

So where exactly did Bruce Lee's powerful side kick (the one that he demonstrated at Ed Parker's karate expo), come from?

It is obviously a Korean side kick. Probably from his exposure to hapkido kicking.

 

[Si-Je]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Spartan
So where exactly did Bruce Lee's powerful side kick (the one that he demonstrated at Ed Parker's karate expo), come from?

It is obviously a Korean side kick. Probably from his exposure to hapkido kicking.

I would think that would really be the charging WC side kick. That's what I've been taught.

There seems to be alot of confusion with the deflection of kicks. What we do is, ironically, don't worry about the kick.

You either humbo step into the kicking leg deflecting and advancing to take away the power of the kick. I.E. by the time the kick is launched your theigh, hip, and body is well past the knee and seeking body to body contact with the kicker. Very effective for simply ending your opponent on the floor since at this time they are balenced on one leg only. Of, course remember your forward force!

"Shivering" the leg as I say, for lack of a better word really, I'm meaning that instead of "blocking" shin to shin say as in muy tai, you have your leg at a bit of a 45 degree angle as you make contact with the kicking leg as you move forward into the opponent. as you close the distance much like humbo stepping, you take away the power of the kick and the balance of the opponent.

Although, my favorite, because I'm just lazy, is simply heel kicking the opponent's kicking leg. Much like a door stopper, you jam them pretty good. Usually, if their putting alot of force into the kick, they fall or stumble, plus it just hurts to have a heel jammed into your theigh!
Of course you kick then becomes your step as you still close the distance to finish your attacker.

Just some examples of deflecting, or negating a kick with WC/WT kicking.
Let the legs take care of the legs, and the hands take care of the hands.
If you want to get fancy, or if you just don't get in fast enough, then by all means use gan sau. It looks cool, and looks like it hurts to get dumped on your butt as well.

Missed you guys. We've lost our computer, and have limited access to one these days. Will stop by to holler at ya'll when I can.

 

[matsu]

this is a fascinating thread.
i am a beginner and i am yet to learn kicks per say,so i am reading with interest.
matsu

 

[qwksilver61]

My Two cents;I came from a kicking school, Kwon Jae Hwa's Traditional Tae Kwon Do,human anatomy,resuscitation,no padding no tag you're it matches,no handing out belts like it was going out of style,very disciplined Tae Kwon Do.Yes ,the shoulder does drop before the delivery of a kick.I used to win matches by executing an outside crescent kick and quickly converting it to a side kick to the ribs,also I had tremendous speed.It worked then,until I met Wing Tsun.Nearly all of my kicks were stopped before my foot left the ground,the gap was quickly closed,leg pinned,scooped up,or re-directed (not shin on shin) anything higher than the waist was a waste (total commitment)
Wing Tsun has taught me; not to telegraph (drop shoulder)not to hesitate, close the gap as quickly as possible,and to utilize three limbs at once if need be.Of course all of this depends on your skill level.Remember Muy Thai people train hard,Wing Tsunners should also train hard(ie;bag work).If you are not, then you are not "fighting fit" train like you mean it!

 

[JustAVisitor]

I do Wing Chun. Tons of kicks in my experience/practice... I am really surprised in reading that there are WC practitioners that only do low kicks. My practice involves sweeps to jumps, passing stand-up kicks of all heights, angles and directions. Some easy to block, absorb or deviate... others nasty and treatorous... Except for jumped kicks, kicks must be 'well grounded' and they appply short distance efficiency WC principle. Balance is key.
Against Muy Thai, i found that stiking my legs to the opponent ones and blocking with elbows were good defense. Essential to protection are also breathing techniques and good energy belt (so to speak... for whatever it is...).

 

[mook jong man]

i am also a wing chun guy and i agree with what the earlier guy said about stepping in. also i like to fire off a medium heel kick straight to the groin as soon as i see that shoulder move or if i am too slow bring my knee up on the centerline to the full guard position. i come from sigung tsui seung tins lineage where all kicks are below the waist.

 

[matsu]

humbo step???:shrug:

can someone educate me pleeze?

matsu

 

[mook jong man]

sorry mate i don't know what a humbo step is. the wing chun system i come from we fight square on and the only methods i am aware of is stepping straight in or side stepping at a 45 degree angle i would like to know too what a humbo step is.

 

[qwksilver61]

Humbo? Hambo! stepping on the hambone! I get it! Ha!Ha! (bad humor)

 

[KamonGuy2]

I think he meant huen bo, or circle step

It sounds a bit like humbo (sort of).

 

[qwksilver61]

Huen bo,rarely seen by some,works pretty good in close quarters...has anyone ever had to use this technique?

 

[mook jong man]

qwksilver61 is that the circleing step in the bil gee form ? where you can step behind the opponents front leg, sweep and elbow strike at the same time ?

 

[qwksilver61]

I know what it is,I wondered whether or not anyone has had to use this in a real fight.like for instance the side pinning arms,just a question.