Non-martial training in martial arts

[Gerry Seymour]

the two arnt mutually exclusive,at least not under your defintion of catalyst

No, not mutually exclusive. But you are not a catalyst for positive change, because you don't really think through what you're doing. You just do what you want, because you don't personally like the rules. If others follow you, what they're most likely to do is start ignoring the rules they don't like. Then you're just a catalyst for a breakdown of structure and effectiveness.

 

[jobo]

See, you're assuming the rule is silly, without finding out why it exists. Some of the silliest rules are compliance issues. They're verifiably silly, but failing to comply can cost the organization a fair bit of money. Again, you not knowing and disregarding it shows you don't care about the organization - just about your own snowflake ability to not have to bend to rules you don't like.

As I said above, the issue is that they don't know the reason for the rule. Their job is to find out why the rule exists, and if there's not a good reason, to work to get it changed (or just change it or override it, if that's within their authority).

well a rule either has an obvious and easily found justification OR it is silly,

the other stock answer to why a,sign exists, is " health and safety, which then demands me to ask, under which of the 147 sections of the health and safety at work act is the rule required, the never ever have an answer to that, never.i invite them to recommence th conversation when they know, they never do,

 

[jobo]

No, not mutually exclusive. But you are not a catalyst for positive change, because you don't really think through what you're doing. You just do what you want, because you don't personally like the rules. If others follow you, what they're most likely to do is start ignoring the rules they don't like. Then you're just a catalyst for a breakdown of structure and effectiveness.

now you are making up definrions, there is no requirement for a catalyst, to invoke POSITIVE change, nit even under your much varying defintion

 

[Gerry Seymour]

well a rule either has an obvious and easily found justification OR it is silly,

As I pointed out, those two are not mutually exclusive. And, no, sometimes the reason isn't obvious to those it immediately affects. And sometimes the reason, once found, is sillier than the rule (those are among the rules that should be removed).

the other stock answer to why a,sign exists, is " health and safety, which then demands me to ask, under which of the 147 sections of the health and safety at work act is the rule required, the never ever have an answer to that, never.i invite them to recommence th conversation when they know, they never do,

And, again, the issue is that they don't know - unfortunately a common occurrence. Someone should know, and they should find out who that is, or they should get to work at removing the rule.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

now you are making up definrions, there is no requirement for a catalyst, to invoke POSITIVE change, nit even under your much varying defintion

Um, no. I didn't make up words. I said you're not a catalyst for positive change. I also said if you are a catalyst (that depends on whether change occurs), it's for a breakdown. So I didn't make a claim that a catalyst had to be positive. You just didn't read past what you wanted to argue about. You know, like you often do.

 

[jobo]

As I pointed out, those two are not mutually exclusive. And, no, sometimes the reason isn't obvious to those it immediately affects. And sometimes the reason, once found, is sillier than the rule (those are among the rules that should be removed).


And, again, the issue is that they don't know - unfortunately a common occurrence. Someone should know, and they should find out who that is, or they should get to work at removing the rule.

no they ARE exclusive, it can't be a rule that has an obvious justification and be silly at the same Tim. It has to be one OR THE OTHER

 

[jobo]

Um, no. I didn't make up words. I said you're not a catalyst for positive change. I also said if you are a catalyst (that depends on whether change occurs), it's for a breakdown. So I didn't make a claim that a catalyst had to be positive. You just didn't read past what you wanted to argue about. You know, like you often do.

well in that case, you appeared to have wasted both our time, by confirming i wasn't what i hadn't claimed to be.

strangely enough, a substantial part of the job I'm paid to do is to effect culture, change, its just sometimes i change the culture in ways they hadn't predicted, though job descriptions are so vague its hard to argue

 

[Gerry Seymour]

no they ARE exclusive, it can't be a rule that has an obvious justification and be silly at the same Tim. It has to be one OR THE OTHER

I gave you an example. If the rule is a result of regulation (to avoid fines and penalties), the rule can still be quite silly, but there's a very good reason for it.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

well in that case, you appeared to have wasted both our time, by confirming i wasn't what i hadn't claimed to be.

strangely enough, a substantial part of the job I'm paid to do is to effect culture, change, its just sometimes i change the culture in ways they hadn't predicted, though job descriptions are so vague its hard to argue

I suspect the culture change you effect isn't good in the long run, since you seem to not understand basic principles of how organizations work.

 

[jobo]

I suspect the culture change you effect isn't good in the long run, since you seem to not understand basic principles of how organizations work.

i understand very well how they run, i just don't always think that's how it should be run.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

i understand very well how they run, i just don't always think that's how it should be run.

That's not what I said, but I get that you don't get the difference.

 

[jobo]

That's not what I said, but I get that you don't get the difference.

you said i didn't understand the basic principles of organisations, and I'm saying i do and have a post grad diploma to verify that

 

[Gerry Seymour]

you said i didn't understand the basic principles of organisations, and I'm saying i do and have a post grad diploma to verify that

That's not what I said, either, but it's closer. And a diploma means you were able to get through the classes. I've met plenty of MBA (Masters in Business Administration) who didn't really understand the principles they discussed in school.

Here's the kicker: I suspect you understand stuff better than you pretend on here. But if that's true, you can't be half the jerk you claim to be at work, because that attitude doesn't allow you to create, initiate, catalyze, or contribute to controlled cultural change. I suspect you know that, but if I take your posts as true tales, then you don't understand that or just don't care.

 

[jobo]

That's not what I said, either, but it's closer. And a diploma means you were able to get through the classes. I've met plenty of MBA (Masters in Business Administration) who didn't really understand the principles they discussed in school.

Here's the kicker: I suspect you understand stuff better than you pretend on here. But if that's true, you can't be half the jerk you claim to be at work, because that attitude doesn't allow you to create, initiate, catalyze, or contribute to controlled cultural change. I suspect you know that, but if I take your posts as true tales, then you don't understand that or just don't care.

well that is what you said, with the emphasis on BASIC, completing my diploma certainly requires me to have a basic grasp of the principals,

i believe the prime responsibility of an organisation is to make work a enjoyable and rewarding experience for their employees and from that success and profit will naturally follow. As part of that culture Change, i first make sure its an enjoyable and rewarding experience for me and then look to spread the joy around if i can.obviously if it an either or choice, i choose my happiness

 

[hoshin1600]

, i first make sure its an enjoyable and rewarding experience for me and then look to spread the joy around

lol lol lol lol yeah as if your just the santa claws of joy around here.

i am not saying your not a good guy in real life but here you have all the traits of a narcissitic sociopath. i would think you would be better in the aquisition and take over business with downsizing as a side line

 

[jobo]

lol lol lol lol yeah as if your just the santa claws of joy around here.

i am not saying your not a good guy in real life but here you have all the traits of a narcissitic sociopath. i would think you would be better in the aquisition and take over business with downsizing as a side line

strangely enough that what i have done a great deal of work in

specificaly privatisation, of government organisations, hospitals, prisons that sort of thing

 

[Gerry Seymour]

well that is what you said, with the emphasis on BASIC, completing my diploma certainly requires me to have a basic grasp of the principals,

i believe the prime responsibility of an organisation is to make work a enjoyable and rewarding experience for their employees and from that success and profit will naturally follow. As part of that culture Change, i first make sure its an enjoyable and rewarding experience for me and then look to spread the joy around if i can.obviously if it an either or choice, i choose my happiness

As I said, I suspect you understand the concepts much better than you let on in this forum. I also suspect you're not so much the loose cannon you put forth in your posts. Understand that I am either right on both counts, or wrong on both counts - the behavior you claim is counter to the job you have, so you can't have it both ways.

 

[jobo]

As I said, I suspect you understand the concepts much better than you let on in this forum. I also suspect you're not so much the loose cannon you put forth in your posts. Understand that I am either right on both counts, or wrong on both counts - the behavior you claim is counter to the job you have, so you can't have it both ways.

my immense benefit to the organisation seems to outway my personality querks, that and i know where the bodies are buried, metaphorically speaking