Niu Chunming (1881 - 1961)
- Thread starter TaiChiTJ
- Start date
East Winds
2nd Black Belt
TaiChi TJ,
Many thanks for that clip. Fascinating!!!!
Xue Xheng,
I would be interested in your comments of Chuming in the following clip (also from You Tube). I find this clip particularly interesting as Chunming was a contemporary of Tung, Fu and Chen and a student of Cheng Fu. I find this clip a much more believable link to Lu Chan than the form being promulgated by Mr. Montaigue.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ouj8116dp6Q&NR
Very best wishes
Many thanks for that clip. Fascinating!!!!
Xue Xheng,
I would be interested in your comments of Chuming in the following clip (also from You Tube). I find this clip particularly interesting as Chunming was a contemporary of Tung, Fu and Chen and a student of Cheng Fu. I find this clip a much more believable link to Lu Chan than the form being promulgated by Mr. Montaigue.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ouj8116dp6Q&NR
Very best wishes
Xue Sheng
All weight is underside
Thanks for the video.
Chunming, it is hard to judge him in this video, he is old here, and likely this was filmed in the late 50s or VERY early 60s, during the last few years of his life. I once saw a video of some unknown Taiji guy that my first sifu had. The guy was sitting in a chair bent over and when he walked it appeared that he had Parkinson disease but when he did Taiji you could see it all change. No he was not as good as a Cheng Zhenglei or as my sifu but this was a very old guy (per my first sifu the guy was about 95) but you could tell from the way he was doing his Taiji must have been VERY good when he was younger. As for Chunming, I cannot honestly tell, I have become very skeptical of my judgments of these older Taiji guys since my talk with my sifu about Fu. I will however forward this to my sifu and see what he has to say.
He appears stiff to me but I would like to see a video of him from when he was younger. The first time I saw the video of Fu I was not impressed either but my sifu pointed out that in this video Fu was very old and his Taiji was not as good as it use to be, But he could tell from watching the video of Fu that it was at one time likely very good. But back to Chunming, when I am in my late 70s I will be happy if I can do taiji at all, so I gues I would have to say I am fairly impressed by Chunming here.
As for Erle and Luchan I have had enough of that discussion. But it says that Chunming first learned from Jainhou and if that is the case what he did was not the form of Luchan either, Jainhou changed the style to what was called medium frame. But I am more incline to believe he learned from Jainhou than the Luchan claim of Erle.
As for the other video of the fast form, I believe you sent this to me before and I do not remember what I said about it but from watching this I will say first it is not the fast form I do nor is it the other fast form from Tung but it appears to me that it is a nice form but the guy doing it has substituted speed and power for basics.
Chunming, it is hard to judge him in this video, he is old here, and likely this was filmed in the late 50s or VERY early 60s, during the last few years of his life. I once saw a video of some unknown Taiji guy that my first sifu had. The guy was sitting in a chair bent over and when he walked it appeared that he had Parkinson disease but when he did Taiji you could see it all change. No he was not as good as a Cheng Zhenglei or as my sifu but this was a very old guy (per my first sifu the guy was about 95) but you could tell from the way he was doing his Taiji must have been VERY good when he was younger. As for Chunming, I cannot honestly tell, I have become very skeptical of my judgments of these older Taiji guys since my talk with my sifu about Fu. I will however forward this to my sifu and see what he has to say.
He appears stiff to me but I would like to see a video of him from when he was younger. The first time I saw the video of Fu I was not impressed either but my sifu pointed out that in this video Fu was very old and his Taiji was not as good as it use to be, But he could tell from watching the video of Fu that it was at one time likely very good. But back to Chunming, when I am in my late 70s I will be happy if I can do taiji at all, so I gues I would have to say I am fairly impressed by Chunming here.
As for Erle and Luchan I have had enough of that discussion. But it says that Chunming first learned from Jainhou and if that is the case what he did was not the form of Luchan either, Jainhou changed the style to what was called medium frame. But I am more incline to believe he learned from Jainhou than the Luchan claim of Erle.
As for the other video of the fast form, I believe you sent this to me before and I do not remember what I said about it but from watching this I will say first it is not the fast form I do nor is it the other fast form from Tung but it appears to me that it is a nice form but the guy doing it has substituted speed and power for basics.
East Winds
2nd Black Belt
Xue Sheng,
Thanks for the input. I agree about the original video posted by TaiChiTJ., Chunming is old and the video is not a sequential form, However I do believe you can still see energy and quality in his form. I have mixed feelings about the the video I posted of "Chunming Yang Fast Form". It follows the sequence of Traditional Yang (with a couple of differences) and I do see some Chen influences there. However I also saw what I thought were some "wushu" influenced postures and that is where my scepticism is rooted.. I agree about the Montaigue aspect and I too did not want to re-open that old sore. As you know the sequence of Yang Traditional Form 1st Section, follows the Chen Laojia form exactly. This I believe would have come down from Lu Chan. I do not believe that Lu Chan changed the Chen sequence he had learned, only the way it was performed. Of course there is no way that we can know that for sure, but it would seem fairly logical to me at least. I had not really been aware of Chunming before (although I had heard the name in passing). But isn't it wonderful that these old videos keep appearing giving us a glimpse into the forms of the past.
Very best wishes
Thanks for the input. I agree about the original video posted by TaiChiTJ., Chunming is old and the video is not a sequential form, However I do believe you can still see energy and quality in his form. I have mixed feelings about the the video I posted of "Chunming Yang Fast Form". It follows the sequence of Traditional Yang (with a couple of differences) and I do see some Chen influences there. However I also saw what I thought were some "wushu" influenced postures and that is where my scepticism is rooted.. I agree about the Montaigue aspect and I too did not want to re-open that old sore. As you know the sequence of Yang Traditional Form 1st Section, follows the Chen Laojia form exactly. This I believe would have come down from Lu Chan. I do not believe that Lu Chan changed the Chen sequence he had learned, only the way it was performed. Of course there is no way that we can know that for sure, but it would seem fairly logical to me at least. I had not really been aware of Chunming before (although I had heard the name in passing). But isn't it wonderful that these old videos keep appearing giving us a glimpse into the forms of the past.
Very best wishes
I don't know any Tai Chi but I was capitvated watching those videos.
