New video: Wing Chun against Boxing

[mook jong man]

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The boxer video was funny. My 3 Arctic dogs- two Samoyeds and a powerful malamute are now on the other side of the rainbow bridge.
All 3 learned standing and moving chi sao using two fook saos on top of a bong and tan alignment by me.
Their fok saos were gentle, controlling and on the spot in rolling. When there was an opening they could strike
with their nails on either one of the paws. Good times.

Our little Pomeranian does something like that , only he does it when your scratching his chest.
He likes getting his chest scratched so much that when you go to take your hand away he clamps onto your wrist with two text book Fook Sau's so you can't take your hand back.

 

[Tez3]

Our little Pomeranian does something like that , only he does it when your scratching his chest.
He likes getting his chest scratched so much that when you go to take your hand away he clamps onto your wrist with two text book Fook Sau's so you can't take your hand back.

That sounds just like a Scotsman swearing!

 

[mook jong man]

That sounds just like a Scotsman swearing!

No , that would be Fook You Jimmy.

I always wondered who Jimmy was and why they were always telling him to eff off.

 

[Tez3]

LOL, Jimmy is anyone not you!

 

[geezer]

You don't want to use a Tan Sau against a hook punch.
The circular force of a tight hook punch acts like a parry and knocks the Tan Sau aside.

We use a Dai Sau against hook punches , it doesn't require pivoting and only needs the arm to be raised from the guard with the elbow and forearm out at a 45 degree angle.
The hook is deflected upwards and more often than not they hurt themselves by ramming the inside of their forearm onto the outside of your forearm or point of your elbow.

Worst case scenario and the force from the hook is too great , then the force can be directed over your head by turning the Dai Sau into a Bong Sau and pivoting.
Having said that , if he is close enough to use a tight powerful hook you should be close enough to punch him in the face with your centerline punch.

The Tan Sau against a circular strike can work , but it is more suited to something like a hay maker where the angle of the arm is a lot more extended , not a tight hook.

Another case where it works well is against the back of the arm of a spinning back fist because the angle of the opponents arm is limited to being straight or slightly bent and can't curve it's way around the Tan Sau.

In LT's WT and many of it's offshoots they do train tan-sau against a hooking punch. As you pointed out, it can work against long, looping punches. Against a hard, tight hook ...not so well, IMO.

I prefer another technique I learned early on. We call it fook-sau, but it's not the hook-handed centerline fook sau of SNT and chi-sau. Rather it is a bit like a tan sau but with the palm facing down and the elbow turned out a little so it's aligned with the side of the body ...maybe a bit like the turning stance tan-sau of chum kiu but with the palm down and often extended a bit further. This has proved functional against a tight hook, either jamming and stopping it or deflecting it upwards and then rolling through to bong-sau like you described.

As for Dai-sau, I never knew what that was untill I found it in an old book of mine by Jim Fung and Karen Armstrong. Guess what? That's pretty much what we've been calling "fook sau" all this time. Anyway, I think its an extremely useful technique. I have no idea why it seems to be de-emphasized in some of the WT programs these days.

 

[mook jong man]

In LT's WT and many of it's offshoots they do train tan-sau against a hooking punch. As you pointed out, it can work against long, looping punches. Against a hard, tight hook ...not so well, IMO.

I prefer another technique I learned early on. We call it fook-sau, but it's not the hook-handed centerline fook sau of SNT and chi-sau. Rather it is a bit like a tan sau but with the palm facing down and the elbow turned out a little so it's aligned with the side of the body ...maybe a bit like the turning stance tan-sau of chum kiu but with the palm down and often extended a bit further. This has proved functional against a tight hook, either jamming and stopping it or deflecting it upwards and then rolling through to bong-sau like you described.

As for Dai-sau, I never knew what that was untill I found it in an old book of mine by Jim Fung and Karen Armstrong. Guess what? That's pretty much what we've been calling "fook sau" all this time. Anyway, I think its an extremely useful technique. I have no idea why it seems to be de-emphasized in some of the WT programs these days.

Yeah that would work.
You could also use the Fook Sau to redirect it down instead of up , but for that to work properly you would have to pivot , something against a hook that I would prefer not to do.

Counters that involve pivots are best done when the opponent is trying to do a strike that involves spinning or his side is turned to you , because you don't have to worry about being hit from the other hand as he would have to spin back around the other way to hit you.

 

[poulperadieux]

Hooks and Wing Chun

 

[Cyriacus]

Hooks and Wing Chun

See now, im just glad to see someone who acknowledges how most people throw hooks

 

[takadadojokeith]

Get serious guys. Wing Chun really works against a boxer. Here's proof:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lHrLMbBM_sc&list=FLMVQT9MV49ChRYD67zAUd7w&index=2

Easily the best post in this thread.

The only thing I'll add is that, if you really want demo some wing chun techniques against a boxer, the guy should be moving a little more like this...

 

[Danny T]

Hi guys!

I hope that you may find this useful to your training

Let me know what you think!

Thanks for the posting and I do appreciate your courage to show your level of understanding. It is 'Strongly' recommended you team up with a much higher level boxer and re-evaluate your responses. This is exactly why my Sifu requires all of his high level instructors to have a high level of training in other training systems. We do not train against wing chun people attempting to simulate a boxer, we train against real boxers, real muay thai fighters, real groundfighters, etc... to truly understand how to apply wing chun against those attacks. As shown in your video, there is very little knowledge or understanding of a real boxers punches.

I have a huge passion for the wing chun training system having trained in it for over 20 years. However, I came from a boxing background and what you show here will get someone hurt against real boxing punches.

I hope you find these word useful to your training.

Danny Terrell
Progressive Martial Arts Training Center

 

[Tony Dismukes]

Thanks for the posting and I do appreciate your courage to show your level of understanding. It is 'Strongly' recommended you team up with a much higher level boxer and re-evaluate your responses. This is exactly why my Sifu requires all of his high level instructors to have a high level of training in other training systems. We do not train against wing chun people attempting to simulate a boxer, we train against real boxers, real muay thai fighters, real groundfighters, etc... to truly understand how to apply wing chun against those attacks. As shown in your video, there is very little knowledge or understanding of a real boxers punches.

I have a huge passion for the wing chun training system having trained in it for over 20 years. However, I came from a boxing background and what you show here will get someone hurt against real boxing punches.

I hope you find these word useful to your training.

Danny Terrell
Progressive Martial Arts Training Center

Danny, can you recommend any videos on YouTube showing application of Wing Chun against real boxing?

 

[geezer]

Tony, I'm on lunch at work and can't access Youtube, but Alan Orr over in the UK and Sifu Fernandez (AKA Fighterman) in Italy both have some good clips of sparring sessions againt partners who box. Both have boxing training too and believe in good solid contact to keep it honest. It's really interesting to see how their WC changes when applied with and against pressure. Some WC traditionalists hate what these guys do, but I give them a lot of respect.


BTW, Fighterman is a member of this forum. I'd like to get Alan Orr on board too.

 

[wtxs]

BTW, Fighterman is a member of this forum. I'd like to get Alan Orr on board too.

With all that WC in-fighting in the other forum he's on, don't think you'll have to try very hard. Maybe we should extend him an invite.

 

[geezer]

With all that WC in-fighting in the other forum he's on, don't think you'll have to try very hard. Maybe we should extend him an invite.

I just did. Sent him a PM, but he doesn't know me "from Adam" as they say, so if anyone else wants to contact him, go ahead.

 

[Tony Dismukes]

I just watched a few of Alan Orr's videos. My knowledge of Wing Chun is extremely limited, but from my experience in other martial arts I have to say that what he's doing looks very effective.

 

[Instructor]

With all that WC in-fighting in the other forum he's on, don't think you'll have to try very hard. Maybe we should extend him an invite.

What is the one thing common to all styles of martial arts? This..

 

[wtxs]

What is the one thing common to all styles of martial arts? This..

Nature of the beast ... in-fighting as to who got the real stuff and whois doing right, or wrong. They can't see past their own egos and maybe able to learn from each other. Never mind even try to accept there are more than one way to "skin a cat"... I do have cats by the way.

I don't visit other sections of this forum, but I rate this WC forum is way above civility than the other sites I had been.