Need more advice in cane fight practice

[JowGaWolf]

I was unaware of this. Do you mean that the mandarin word for staff translates to either gun or bang, or that that's the literal phonetics of the translation for "Staff"? If the latter, that makes me wonder if the person who originally came up with the word gun knew chinese...

It could happen.

 

[geezer]

I was unaware of this. Do you mean that the mandarin word for staff translates to either gun or bang, or that that's the literal phonetics of the translation for "Staff"? If the latter, that makes me wonder if the person who originally came up with the word gun knew chinese...

The phonetic translation of the Cantonese for staff is commonly written as kwun or gwun. But the similarity to the English term gun is coincidental. It's a false cognate.

Even though we credit the Chinese for inventing gunpowder, the early English term for a gun derives has northern germanic roots:

gun | Etymology of gun by etymonline

"an engine of war that throws rocks, arrows or other missiles from a tube by the force of… See origin and meaning of gun.

www.etymonline.com

 

[JowGaWolf]

The phonetic translation of the Cantonese for staff is commonly written as kwun or gwun. But the similarity to the English term gun is coincidental. It's a false cognate.

Even though we credit the Chinese for inventing gunpowder, the early English term for a gun derives has northern germanic roots:

gun | Etymology of gun by etymonline

"an engine of war that throws rocks, arrows or other missiles from a tube by the force of… See origin and meaning of gun.

www.etymonline.com

Thanks for the research effort on that one. Much appreciated.

 

[Alan0354]

From what I can tell anything below 5" or 6" (depending on context / techniques used) really won't make any difference in the range. It just means you don't have to hold the cain at the very end. Hand placement is always going to be about the same distance You'll either hold it towards the end for longer range or towards the middle. After 6" you start to get some extra space on the cane to use. In my opinion should be long enough to get some additional space where you hold the cane. There should be enough room on the straight end to hook wrists and elbows.

That little piece of the cane that is hooking around the arm is the extra space that you want. If you have to put your hands very close together to get that same amount then the cane is too short. The hand placement on the cane is about the distance you want to have in relation to the cane. This will give you to ability to use leverage, which is going to be vital in close range fighting with a cane.

View attachment 27842

For me personally I rather have a cane that is the correct size for walking because at that point, the cane is longer than my longest weapon (my leg for kicking). The swing radius of a cane depends of the position of the hand. Holding the cane towards the middle shortens the range greatly. The range can be shorten or increased as needed so long as you can move your hand freely along the cane.


For example: the cane above is short range. He could easily swing in a restaurant space or sidewalk The swing range is a shorter distance than the elbow of the outstretch arm, But look at the picture blow. He has a nice range with room to spare. His arm isn't even extend so he's got plenty of long range available if needed.
View attachment 27843

When fighting with a 6 foot staff the hand placement on a staff will determine the swing radius. This is also true for a cane.

The other thing you have to consider is the type of swing you are doing. You will run out of horizontal swing space before you run out of horizontal swing space. If I was in the same place as the guy in the middle, I could still do a vertical strike with a 6ft staff and not hit anyone else except the person I'm trying to hit. By you being short, you get an extra bonus in availability of vertical swing space. But in all reality. I'll probably gain some horizontal space after that initial swing. Most people are going to get up and get away from the guy with the swinging stick. Not many people want to become involved in such situations like that. You may have a couple of people who will try to tackle you, but most people don't want to be a part of the conflict that you have with the guy you are hitting.

View attachment 27844
I'm 5'9" My sword in sheath is 39.5" which is a good size as it comes up a little above my hip. I would want a cane this size because I can place weight on it if needed. "36" is too small for walking and it feels too small when I use for a 2 hand swing of a cane that size. It's great for a two hand sword swing that requires both hands to be at the end, but it's horrible for swing where I need my hands to be far apart. Even a two hand thrust feels very short. But my sword in sheath feels just right for that vertical down strike followed by a thrust. using 2 hands.

It's going to ultimately boil down to which options you want to have available one hand options vs two hand options. I can swing a 39." cane like a one hand weapon, But I don't think I can use the "36" like a two hand weapon. This size only applies to me and my height. The size will be different for you.

I have been playing with holding the cane at different part to shorten the reach instead of one set position. I just have to get use to moving. Without having the strap, it's much easier to change position.

I even practice switching between poking and striking both from left and right. The strap really limit the option.

I just ordered a new cane and going to cut it longer and see. But to me anything over 32" is really long. I don't know your sword, cane is very top heavy. Long ones are hard to swing and control. How do you stop the sword if you miss instead swinging the full arc?

 

[Dirty Dog]

don't know your sword, cane is very top heavy. Long ones are hard to swing and control. How do you stop the sword if you miss instead swinging the full arc?

Why stop it? Just let it run through a circle. That's faster and requires less energy than stopping and reversing direction.

 

[Oily Dragon]

The phonetic translation of the Cantonese for staff is commonly written as kwun or gwun. But the similarity to the English term gun is coincidental. It's a false cognate.

Even though we credit the Chinese for inventing gunpowder, the early English term for a gun derives has northern germanic roots:

gun | Etymology of gun by etymonline

"an engine of war that throws rocks, arrows or other missiles from a tube by the force of… See origin and meaning of gun.

www.etymonline.com

Is it coincidental?

The Chinese bang (wooden club) is so called because of the sound it makes, which is also why the Scandinavian, Icelandic, Old Norse banga, also means to pound and hammer. Like on a drum.

"Bang...bang...bang". "Banga banga banga". A lot of words come from the sounds that we associate with them. "Choo choo".

Gun/Gwan means something like "to beat many times with a tree". Makes sense to me.

 

[JowGaWolf]

I just ordered a new cane and going to cut it longer and see. But to me anything over 32" is really long. I don't know your sword, cane is very top heavy. Long ones are hard to swing and control. How do you stop the sword if you miss instead swinging the full arc?

I'll try to either find some videos or make a video of some basic swing techniques. I'm getting the feeling that we are all over the place trying to help you, when you don't have the basics swings down. In other words you are trying to learn how to swing that cane without really having any basics to build upon. I think things will be easier for you if you can train the basics. In addition, the basics are very functional

 

[Alan0354]

go spar with this dude !!!

I don't think this is a good way, he use the hook to hit, in real life, the hook will catch on stuffs(even on the opponent) and it will pull the cane off your hand all together.

I practice a little holding the end of the cane and swing the handle to hit. I still using the back of the handle to hit(not the hook). I still afraid that the hook might accident catch onto something and pull it off my hands. If not for that, it would be a good way to put weight on the front of the cane. I can use a lighter rattan cane and rely on the weight of the handle to hit. Then I can turn the cane around and swing with one hand.

 

[JowGaWolf]

Why stop it? Just let it run through a circle. That's faster and requires less energy than stopping and reversing direction.

I think the difficulty here is that he's trying to do all of this without the basics. Not one of us, to my knowledge, have introduced any basics that he should train. We pretty much try to answer the questions he has and he's not understanding a lot of it, because he doesn't have that foundation.

All of our statements have been based on our knowledge of other weapons and how we understand the basics can be applied to the cane. We have just experienced the text book example of "There's no short path to learn this stuff."

 

[Alan0354]

I'll try to either find some videos or make a video of some basic swing techniques. I'm getting the feeling that we are all over the place trying to help you, when you don't have the basics swings down. In other words you are trying to learn how to swing that cane without really having any basics to build upon. I think things will be easier for you if you can train the basics. In addition, the basics are very functional

I think I have the basic swinging technique down already. Might not be the way you want, it's more the Filipino escrima style. I also using the casting technique.

I am more practicing on interchanging swing and poke which I am practicing.

 

[Dirty Dog]

I think the difficulty here is that he's trying to do all of this without the basics. Not one of us, to my knowledge, have introduced any basics that he should train. We pretty much try to answer the questions he has and he's not understanding a lot of it, because he doesn't have that foundation.

All of our statements have been based on our knowledge of other weapons and how we understand the basics can be applied to the cane. We have just experienced the text book example of "There's no short path to learn this stuff."

Agreed. The OP certainly doesn't understand the basics. He insists that swinging a stick is the same as swinging a katana. A stick is swung like a bat. A katana is a slicing movement. I actually tried to explain the difference to him once, but there was no interest in learning. So I gave up. It's no use flogging a dead horse. Or slicing one up with a katana, either.

 

[Alan0354]

Why stop it? Just let it run through a circle. That's faster and requires less energy than stopping and reversing direction.

Because in real life self defense situation, you do not have the open space. Try do it at home with all the furniture around you and you try to swing and swing through it. You'll see. That's what I did a few months ago, that's a whole lot easier. To be effective in a confined space, you have to use CASTING technique that pull back the cane. This is what Blindside(Lamont Glass) showed me and it's very effective.

 

[Alan0354]

Agreed. The OP certainly doesn't understand the basics. He insists that swinging a stick is the same as swinging a katana. A stick is swung like a bat. A katana is a slicing movement. I actually tried to explain the difference to him once, but there was no interest in learning. So I gave up. It's no use flogging a dead horse. Or slicing one up with a katana, either.

I don't recall you ever try to explain, you just putting me down. I better stop as you are the moderator and you have more right.

 

[Dirty Dog]

Because in real life self defense situation, you do not have the open space.

You don't? It's cute that you think all self-defense scenarios are going to be the same.
I treat a metric butt-ton of assaults. The vast majority of them occur in places with plenty of room. It doesn't take all that much to redirect the weapon and let it's arc continue all the way around.
I don't think it's likely that I will be fighting inside a phone booth.

 

[Tony Dismukes]

I think the difficulty here is that he's trying to do all of this without the basics. Not one of us, to my knowledge, have introduced any basics that he should train. We pretty much try to answer the questions he has and he's not understanding a lot of it, because he doesn't have that foundation.

All of our statements have been based on our knowledge of other weapons and how we understand the basics can be applied to the cane. We have just experienced the text book example of "There's no short path to learn this stuff."

Actually a few of us gave him advice on fundamentals in his original post and he has worked through a few iterations of what he wants to build his practice on based on his experimentation with what we’ve suggested.

Alan was originally focused on single-hand methods and full swings, but after trying our advice on those he has opted instead to work on a two-handed grip and “casting” style strikes. That being the case, some of us have offered some suggestions on how he can improve the basics of those strikes. The stuff he’s working on isn’t my favorite basis for stick fighting, but it’s a valid approach.

 

[Alan0354]

You don't? It's cute that you think all self-defense scenarios are going to be the same.
I treat a metric butt-ton of assaults. The vast majority of them occur in places with plenty of room. It doesn't take all that much to redirect the weapon and let it's arc continue all the way around.
I don't think it's likely that I will be fighting inside a phone booth.

Like I said, you are the moderator. I apologize, you are right.

 

[Alan0354]

Actually a few of us gave him advice on fundamentals in his original post and he has worked through a few iterations of what he wants to build his practice on based on his experimentation with what we’ve suggested.

Alan was originally focused on single-hand methods and full swings, but after trying our advice on those he has opted instead to work on a two-handed grip and “casting” style strikes. That being the case, some of us have offered some suggestions on how he can improve the basics of those strikes. The stuff he’s working on isn’t my favorite basis for stick fighting, but it’s a valid approach.

Thanks

Sorry I did not reply at the beginning, I was really busy as my grandkids were here. I read your post many times and took it to heart. You said I only use my arms to swing, I actually pay attention. I made the second video in post#21 after practice a few days. Can you take a look and see is it any better? Thanks

I am not trying to say that's the way for self defense, post #21 just the casting I practice.

I am just starting to read the old posts as I have more time now. I do listen and read the post and think a lot about it. I am not saying I will listen to everything, I have to play with the suggestions and see whether I agree or suit me before I incorporate into my practice. I definitely remove the strap around my wrist. I am practicing mix poking and swinging together to get use to switching hands, not just swing to strike. I pay attention to my hands to make sure they are not gripping too close.

One thing I really don't want to follow is like "kata" in MA. I want to keep things very simple. I learn from MA training that less is more. I don't want to learn fancy moves, just very basic strike to head, legs, then poke to mid section or neck.

If you see anything I did wrong, please let me know.

Thanks

 

[JowGaWolf]

Might not be the way you want, it's more the Filipino escrima style.

Not sure why you think it's about what I want. Everything that I and others have been saying can be seen in these two videos. Which were made long before I starting learning to use that staff.

Aris Cane

The same motions here can be done with a cane

This will be my last post about your cane hitting techniques.

 

[JowGaWolf]

Actually a few of us gave him advice on fundamentals in his original post and he has worked through a few iterations of what he wants to build his practice on based on his experimentation with what we’ve suggested.

Alan was originally focused on single-hand methods and full swings, but after trying our advice on those he has opted instead to work on a two-handed grip and “casting” style strikes. That being the case, some of us have offered some suggestions on how he can improve the basics of those strikes. The stuff he’s working on isn’t my favorite basis for stick fighting, but it’s a valid approach.

I'll let you guys handle it.

 

[Tony Dismukes]

You said I only use my arms to swing, I actually pay attention. I made the second video in post#21 after practice a few days. Can you take a look and see is it any better? Thanks

That is an improvement in terms of getting some hip power into your swings. Keep working on it, but you’re going in the right direction.

The other suggestion I made in my previous post was to let your hands be a little further apart. Just a few extra inches between your hands will help give you more control and leverage.

BTW, you don’t have to practice just casting or just swings with carry through. I would recommend you work on both, because each method can be helpful in the right situation.