Need more advice in cane fight practice

[Xue Sheng]

Such great footwork. I mean the sticks are cool but the stepping is cooler and more interesting a lot of the time.


Obligatory funny.

Yeah, carrying a sword around in 2022 in public, you're gonna have a bad time. Especially if you write a book about it.

What I never understood was why he'd make the cover of a "Street Sword" book in the middle of snowy woodlands, before we even get to that grip...

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Oh please don't bring Phil into this, he use to post here, and this might bring him back....and nobody wants that...at least those of us who have been here awhile

 

[drop bear]

The things I was speaking about are simple concepts. If you are picturing behind the neck and complex locks with a stick then you are picturing the wrong things. If I have a stick close range then you won't get the clinch. You won't get the knees. Especially if the knees come after the clinch.
This is something I would love to give you the experience of trying to deal with. If your clinch is under the stick then I can hit you in the face and head with the stick using full force. If it's under your clinch then your ribs are exposed. Knees won't get past the stick at all. If your clinch is above the stick. If a knee comes up then I just need to push the staff downward.

If the clinch breaks your posture then you won't be able to use the stick very effectively.

A common stick disarm is just overhooking the stick.

 

[Blindside]

The things I was speaking about are simple concepts. If you are picturing behind the neck and complex locks with a stick then you are picturing the wrong things. If I have a stick close range then you won't get the clinch. You won't get the knees. Especially if the knees come after the clinch.
This is something I would love to give you the experience of trying to deal with. If your clinch is under the stick then I can hit you in the face and head with the stick using full force. If it's under your clinch then your ribs are exposed. Knees won't get past the stick at all. If your clinch is above the stick. If a knee comes up then I just need to push the staff downward.

When you use two hands to hold on me the you don't have anything interfering with the stick so. I only need to keep my structure for strikes an turning/ twisting. Now if you can break my structure then you'll have a chance to pull it off. You also have a good chance to pull it off if the person doesn't know how to use the stick with grappling.

Got it. If I was training for self defense I think the most common close quarter issue is a fight over the weapon for exactly the reasons you mention. I like the stick over the clinch as I will drive it forward into their neck/throat and use it to break their posture, aside from general uncomfortableness of getting it in the throat with a stick.

 

[JowGaWolf]

I was thinking unarmed vs stick and them just rushing eating shots and clinching.

This works with strikes that are circular. I wouldn't recommend it against linear strikes , pokes, or jabs with a stick. You don't want to eat those. It doesn't take much to make those hurt. when they land it will not only hurt but will stop forward or delay forward movement which puts you at risk for a follow up hit. After you get poked don't expect the person to be standing in the same position. They are probably taking an angle.

 

[JowGaWolf]

If the clinch breaks your posture then you won't be able to use the stick very effectively.

A common stick disarm is just overhooking the stick.

Agreed, but you have to get to the clinch first and that can be difficult depending on where the stick is. The more skilled the person is with using the stick and defending against people rushing in, then the more difficult it will be.

Here's an example. I know this works because I use it in long fist and it works with or without a weapon.

I have a stick and you don't. You are facing me like this, say I goofed and put myself in this situation. In order for you to put me in a clinch, you have to go where my torso is. If step into a bow stance to the left then I would disrupt your plans to clinch. Here's what will happen if I quickly bow stance to the left.

1. I step off center of your rush attack
2. The bow stance also changes the level at which you were trying to attack (at this point your brain is calculating 2 things from one movement.)
3. Your eyes will naturally follow the biggest motion, we are hardwired biologically to do so. (Now your body is no longer calculating the smaller stick, but the larger movement.)
4. Because you aren't watching to defend against the stick, I just need to follow through with the swing and it will have a good chance that it will land on your head while I'm in a position that is safe from your clinch.
5. The bow stance is but for a moment and I can reposition my feet and body position after the strike is finished.

My son is a smarty pants when I train him. He always thinks he's going to be the technique, even when I say that a technique exploits human behavior. Even when I tell him what I'm going to do, he is not able to fight it.

If I toss a small rock at you, You will watch that small rock like a hawk. You'll be locked into it. But if I toss a smaller rock and then quickly tossed a large brick then your brain will instantly track that larger brick, that's coming at you. My body movement to the left is the "large brick."

 

[JowGaWolf]

Got it. If I was training for self defense I think the most common close quarter issue is a fight over the weapon for exactly the reasons you mention. I like the stick over the clinch as I will drive it forward into their neck/throat and use it to break their posture, aside from general uncomfortableness of getting it in the throat with a stick.

I've been hit in the throat as a kid by accident. I definitely don't want to experience it with aggression or in training lol. One of the quickest ways to get me to yield. You wouldn't have to do that much with me. I would just count it as a loss for letting the stick get there in the first place lol. Much easier to deal with then trying to fight with a stick on my throat

 

[JowGaWolf]

A common stick disarm is just overhooking the stick.

A common stick defense. Poke you in the face when you try to advance lol

 

[JowGaWolf]

Hockey has some good stick swings. Mark: 6:33 a Blindside for @Blindside which makes me give that user name a second thought. Is it just a username or does it hint to something specific?

 

[Blindside]

Hockey has some good stick swings. Mark: 6:33 a Blindside for @Blindside which makes me give that user name a second thought. Is it just a username or does it hint to something specific?

It refers to the best way to hit someone, your hockey example is a perfect.

 

[Rich Parsons]

I'm still sitting here trying to figure out how to respond to it lol. The only thing I can think is that I'm going to use this as a template for the next time someone says I should do MMA lol.

People engage you use your left to manage, monitor and delay their primary, while they try to do the same with you.
One can while standing close enough to clinch / hug, blade oneself with the weapon shoulder back and instead of what many use the shoulder as the pivot point, use the elbow and just hammer. Not just with the punyo or the belly, yet with the tip for maximum impact.

 

[Rich Parsons]

I was thinking unarmed vs stick and them just rushing eating shots and clinching.

DB,
Yes, many people can eat a strike or two.
And by rushing in you get most of the people who target long range to have to re-target you. and usually have to move.
Those who are used to CCB with a handheld weapon just drop the elbow and shorten the range. Body shifting and angling, and maybe a leg drop / step back is in order as well. As all things can vary from situation to situation.

If they are not really trying the hurt you, then you have a higher chance. Try it with a total noob who has no idea how they could hurt you. Tell them it is ok . Wear a helmet, and acknowledge the impact if it occurs.

I am not saying you and your experience can't pull it off on many or most.
And I will be honest as I prefer CCB range and I am approaching unarmed and telling them to not swing on me or I will take it from them and show them how to really use it. *It being a bat, tire iron, golf club, cane, insert other device here*
So yes I am sure DB can make it work . Is it something one can teach to the average person to be used against the average person.
I mean this as to say you know enough to understand when NOT to shoot in and eat the shots.

My point is that if the person with the weapon doesn't care about the safety of other person, they can do great bodily with there strikes.
No The weapon is not unstoppable.

I would not empty handed try to do a single or double leg take down on a known BJJ or MMA ground fighter. I would go with my strengths and try to avoid theirs.

PS: I like your mindset

 

[drop bear]

DB,
Yes, many people can eat a strike or two.
And by rushing in you get most of the people who target long range to have to re-target you. and usually have to move.
Those who are used to CCB with a handheld weapon just drop the elbow and shorten the range. Body shifting and angling, and maybe a leg drop / step back is in order as well. As all things can vary from situation to situation.

If they are not really trying the hurt you, then you have a higher chance. Try it with a total noob who has no idea how they could hurt you. Tell them it is ok . Wear a helmet, and acknowledge the impact if it occurs.

I am not saying you and your experience can't pull it off on many or most.
And I will be honest as I prefer CCB range and I am approaching unarmed and telling them to not swing on me or I will take it from them and show them how to really use it. *It being a bat, tire iron, golf club, cane, insert other device here*
So yes I am sure DB can make it work . Is it something one can teach to the average person to be used against the average person.
I mean this as to say you know enough to understand when NOT to shoot in and eat the shots.

My point is that if the person with the weapon doesn't care about the safety of other person, they can do great bodily with there strikes.
No The weapon is not unstoppable.

I would not empty handed try to do a single or double leg take down on a known BJJ or MMA ground fighter. I would go with my strengths and try to avoid theirs.

PS: I like your mindset

I was not so much thinking what I can do, what you can do. But more of a situation a novice cane fighter might find himself in while fighting a ruffian.

Everyone I have seen in sick fights kind of tries to overhook the weapon or rush the guy. Especially if they are getting hit.

And from there they can take the stick off you. They basically twist and it can come out of your hand.

Getting the clinch and pushing the stick through for the underhook should slow that process down though.

Without needing a whole bunch of specialised training to pull off.

 

[JowGaWolf]

I was not so much thinking what I can do, what you can do. But more of a situation a novice cane fighter might find himself in while fighting a ruffian.

Everyone I have seen in sick fights kind of tries to overhook the weapon or rush the guy. Especially if they are getting hit.

And from there they can take the stick off you. They basically twist and it can come out of your hand.

Getting the clinch and pushing the stick through for the underhook should slow that process down though.

Without needing a whole bunch of specialised training to pull off.

This is against a horizontal swing of the stick?

 

[Oily Dragon]

If the clinch breaks your posture then you won't be able to use the stick very effectively.

A common stick disarm is just overhooking the stick.

Untrue!

The entire idea of "disarm", I mean.

 

[lklawson]

Untrue!

The entire idea of "disarm", I mean.

I guess it's more accurate to say that a common way to disable and negate the stick is to overhook and wrap the weapon and/or weapon bearing limb.

Peace favor your sword,
Kirk

 

[Blindside]

This is just one technique out of a series that deals with the overwrap.

 

[Esteban Tejedor]

Nice cane. I'm interested in cane fighting as well, as I had a medical aluminum one when I broke my knee. I took it on a plane, and no problem at all with TSA - I'm 51 and can fake a limp.

Imagine what a guy with a cane who knew how to use it could have done against a couple of guys with box cutters in the confined space of an airplane.

I held off a gangster and three of his friends in a dance bar in Tijuana with big swings until the bouncers finally stepped in. I think he was mad I was dancing with the prettiest girl there - my wife. So I know big swings work for distance and delaying. When the police came, I faked my limp again and asked for my cane, and they let me go, and sent the other guys to the police station.

I just joined this forum, and posted on getting attacked with a machete in the Dominican Republic 2 nights ago. If I had gone with my cane it would have been a very different story. Large knive vs. cane. Can you use it as forearm protection, instead of just swinging?

 

[Blindside]

Large knive vs. cane. Can you use it as forearm protection, instead of just swinging?

You could lay it along your arm like a tonfa but that really wouldn't be getting the best out of it. If a close quarters I would prefer to use the cane in two hands (spaced apart, like a little staff) and block with the center of the cane to the forearm, but again the preferred option is to hit them hard when they are far away from you.

 

[lklawson]

Can you use it as forearm protection, instead of just swinging?

Some of the Irish styles use a grip which allows the allows the lower 1/3 of the cane to protect the forearm, among other things.

Peace favor your sword,
Kirk

 

[JowGaWolf]

This is just one technique out of a series that deals with the overwrap.

Thanks for sharing the video. I appreciated it. Going to by my side view mirrors so I won't be blindsided ha ha ha. In reference to the technique that you showed in the video. Does the shoulder get locked from that position? It just looks like a long effort to pull the arm out while the stick is at the neck. I'm curious to know it that shoulder or arm naturally gets locked somewhere during the struggle.