Grey Eyed Bandit
Master of Arts
When I cross-train, I prefer to do so to get a feel of the fighting tactics of the respective style, not for mere technique collecting.
multiple styles?
- Thread starter Enson
- Start date
Bujingodai
Black Belt
Did I not convey that idea? I don't go to collect technique either, but it doesn't hurt to learn. I have also gained an idea for the effectiveness for some groups, including the Kans.
Bujingodai
Black Belt
I do agree with that. I waited some years before doing so myself. Now it encompasses about 5-10% of my training. Still great experience.
Yep. I agree. Cool is the right word - dooode. Smart may not be the right word, or effective, but "cool" definately is.Kalifallen said:
Well - Dr. Hatsumi runs the Bujinkan. I guess it doesn't matter why - does it? Maybe he hates their patches... Or maybe he has his own reasons... Guess you could ask him.Enson said:
A good art is a complete art - the body and mind (philosophy / mindset and physical techniques) work together. Principles, strategies, and patterns are far more important than "techniques". My cross training has been to see other schools and their principles, strategies, and patterns - not to pick up a cool new technique to impress my friends at the dojo... As such - I am completely happy with the art I am in - with no need to check out other Ninja dojos (sighs) -- especially the kinds without legitimate history.Bujingodai said:
Anywho -
-Daniel
This would be a dangerous assumption to make - IMO. The best you could say is that you gained an idea for the effectiveness of some individuals within a group - hardly the group itself. The "Kans" for example - have such a HUGE variation in their talents and abilities - the best you could get would be a flavor or a subtle hint on what the group in general does...Bujingodai said:
-Daniel
Bujingodai
Black Belt
Glad your happy. I am too. I don't pick up techniques to impress people, no need for that. I don't see anything wrong with learning something.
Yes I guess it could look like a wild assumption. as for my exposure to the Kan. I was there for a few years, have trained also in over 10 of the schools been to seminars and Tai kai, so yes it is a small amount of exposure. However it is exposure, and certainly enough to get a very basic opinion.
I was really impressed by some, take my Shidoshi Frank Hill. And very very disappointed by some that I saw as well, however I am not rude enough to throw names there.
Same goes for the independents. I have met likely more schools than most. I have seen some that are really great people, however I don't see eye to eye with the technique, it looks made up or very little "taijutsuesque" for whatever that is worth.
On the other hand I have met some of the schools that are in question on the other boards, they have incredible skills and incredible schools
Now if you are happy with what you are doing. Cool. I am happy with what I am doing.
So what are we arguing about
Yes I guess it could look like a wild assumption. as for my exposure to the Kan. I was there for a few years, have trained also in over 10 of the schools been to seminars and Tai kai, so yes it is a small amount of exposure. However it is exposure, and certainly enough to get a very basic opinion.
I was really impressed by some, take my Shidoshi Frank Hill. And very very disappointed by some that I saw as well, however I am not rude enough to throw names there.
Same goes for the independents. I have met likely more schools than most. I have seen some that are really great people, however I don't see eye to eye with the technique, it looks made up or very little "taijutsuesque" for whatever that is worth.
On the other hand I have met some of the schools that are in question on the other boards, they have incredible skills and incredible schools
Now if you are happy with what you are doing. Cool. I am happy with what I am doing.
So what are we arguing about
I don't think we are arguing. As stated before - it is dangerous to cross-train before you reach a significant milestone in your training in ONE art as there is nothing to base your cross-training in...Bujingodai said:
On a vaguely related note - I am surprised you grade the Indies on "Taijustsu-esque" - as the indies, by definition, don't have a traditional background. Other than sharing (borrowing / stealing?) the ninjutsu (ninja?) name - they admit they have nothing in common with traditional JAPANESE ninjutsu schools (which I don't understand). I lump them in with the "Joe's school for kicking ***" - which doesn't have a taijutsu scale at all - it is just Joe and his ability to "kick ***"...
Anywho...
-Daniel
Bujingodai
Black Belt
Ok fair enough, well we agree on the first part anyway.
As for the Taijutsuesque movement, I'm not judging whether or not these schools have any traditional merit or whatever. Just most of the indie schools that I know are X Kan or somewhat similar, many of them have the typical shifting movement that I would have been used to. So being that is my experience thats how I see it.
However I see your point, and there are more than enough of the schools that should just be called Joes school for kicking ***
As for the Taijutsuesque movement, I'm not judging whether or not these schools have any traditional merit or whatever. Just most of the indie schools that I know are X Kan or somewhat similar, many of them have the typical shifting movement that I would have been used to. So being that is my experience thats how I see it.
However I see your point, and there are more than enough of the schools that should just be called Joes school for kicking ***
That is the point though...Bujingodai said:
Why try to attach to the "ninja" title? The groups aren't authentic, so why pretend to be? It is as easy to make the argument that they practice Klingon warfare as it is to claim they are practicing "ninjutsu / ninjitsu".
Anyway -
-Daniel
Because I understand that the school that claimed to teach Klingon HTH got sued...DWeidman said:
Yes. I am being serious.
Actually -- in hindsight -- shouldn't ***ALL*** of those schools be called Joes School for Kicking *** - unless the school has an authentic Menkyo Kaiden in a REAL ninjutsu school?Bujingodai said:
I mean - you can take a birthday card and call it a passport - but it doesn't get you through customs no matter how much you want to pretend it isn't a birthday card... right? Why do we tollerate birthday cards and agree to call them passports out here?
Maybe "Monopoly Money" v. real currency is a better analogy...
-Daniel
L
Limeydog
Guest
Hey Dan,
NICE!!!! Good to see you on martial talk. Guess things are gonna get pretty interesting.
Later
Patrick
NICE!!!! Good to see you on martial talk. Guess things are gonna get pretty interesting.
Later
Patrick
Bujingodai
Black Belt
K, well I guess we agree to disagree I think.
Regardless, I think your selling yourself short not opening your eyes to some of these groups. I know you don't think so, but I have benefited from seeing them. Even if it was to prove to me what everyone says about them.
Regardless, I think your selling yourself short not opening your eyes to some of these groups. I know you don't think so, but I have benefited from seeing them. Even if it was to prove to me what everyone says about them.
Not really. We agree that you have tolerance for liars.Bujingodai said:
I don't think you understand where I am coming from. I have NO problem with "Joes School of ***-Kicking". I will even stop by and check that out - train there if they seem to be a GREAT school. I have no idea how this is "selling myself short"...
It is like going to a Greek restaurant - to find out they have Chinese food. Sure, the Chinese food may be good - but it isn't really Greek food is it? So why should I ever stop there again - as the reason I stopped by the first time was under FALSE pretense because they were LIARS. Of course, for some, the food is good enough that the rest of it doesn't matter... right? And, unfortuneately, unlike my food analogy, you aren't out $12.75 - you are potentially compromising years of training, sweat, and dedication for a lie.
Not that you don't get enough crappy instructors in "legit" organizations - but at least they don't LIE straight off the bat.
Anyway...
-Daniel
G
Gary Arthur
Guest
In my nineteen years of Studying Ninjutsu I have certainly cross trained. I have trained with Dr Hatsumi in the Bujinkan, Tanemura in the Genbukan, Fumon Tanaka from the Koden Mushi Muso Kai (I think thats right) as well as the Shadows of Iga, and I have found this cross thraining to be of great benefit.
I have also trained in Kali, JKD, Hakko Ryu Jujutsu, Aikido, Western Swordsmanship, and Judo whilst studying Ninjutsu. Not because I wanted to put these arts into my art, but because i wanted to know what a Kali/Judo/Jujutsu man etc might attack me with.
I have also trained in Kali, JKD, Hakko Ryu Jujutsu, Aikido, Western Swordsmanship, and Judo whilst studying Ninjutsu. Not because I wanted to put these arts into my art, but because i wanted to know what a Kali/Judo/Jujutsu man etc might attack me with.
Grey Eyed Bandit
Master of Arts
Did you find out anything interesting about aikido attacks...?
Kreth said:
That has been my experience as well. I have heard that cross training really should be done after you have reached about the level of instructor in order to have a good foundation in your old art before you start picking up other habits. In the Bujinkan, this would be about the fifth dan, or the equivilent in terms of experience.
