I posted that so long ago that I'm almost embarassed that I have dignified this with a response. Are you trying to pick a fight?
I'm not surprised at either of them for their actions at the time. Why do you even bring it up at this late date? This is the kind of snipe that keeps me from comeing here any more often.
I'm not surprised at either of them for their actions at the time. Why do you even bring it up at this late date? This is the kind of snipe that keeps me from comeing here any more often.
Tapps
Green Belt
Dear Mao,
No I am definately not trying to pick a fight.
I don't have a lot of time to review this forum , so when I do I try to read a thread start to finish.
I think it is relative to what you wrote.
I intended it to add context to the discussion. I kept it short specifically so as not to start a flame war.
Why so defensive ? I definately am not trying to keep you from coming here. I've enjoyed reading your posts.
No I am definately not trying to pick a fight.
I don't have a lot of time to review this forum , so when I do I try to read a thread start to finish.
I think it is relative to what you wrote.
I intended it to add context to the discussion. I kept it short specifically so as not to start a flame war.
Why so defensive ? I definately am not trying to keep you from coming here. I've enjoyed reading your posts.
Dan Anderson
Master of Arts
MOTT - Datu - Titles, titles, titles. I sure wish Prof. Presas put in writing what each one meant to him. That would've clarified everything. In 1995 I was given the title of "Senior Master" which accompanied my 6th Degree Black Belt (in Modern Arnis) rank. I suppose since there is only one Senior Master that I know of :asian:, I'll need to begin an arguement with myself about the meaning of the title. :argue: Interesting proposition except it is a waste of time. I know Kelly and he is skilled. I know Tim and he is skilled. I know some (not all) of the MOTTs and they have skills. We have a leader no more. Let's concentrate on the furthering of the art.
Dan Anderson :samurai:
Dan Anderson :samurai:
arnisandyz
Master Black Belt
This post has gotten a bit too political for me. The original poster asked what the difference is between Datu and Motts. My interpretation (outside view with NO political agenda) is that a Datu is a very high level instructor of the art. Motts (Master of Tapi-Tapi) has "mastered" that system of fighting within Modern Arnis. I guess in a figurative sense this could mean Motts might or might not have footwork basics, largo ability, and don't do sombrada, but they can do Tapi-Tapi very well. For those of you that don't know what tapi-tapi is it is a close range drill usually done left vs right (Professor was left handed) that utilizes punyo strikes, trapping and baiting within a flow. sorry if this is inaccurate, but the qualified people that could have answered your question seem busy.
arnisandyz
Master Black Belt
I forgot. Tapi-Tapi also has elements of break in break out,, bridging the gap from medio to corto, but I think its mostly about baiting and trapping.
arnisandyz - Welcome! 
You're right....the politics is a tad bit thick at times...
My understanding is that the Datus were all being reconized as being innovators and leaders of the arts.
Re- MOTTS : This thread has a reposting of a press release that some consider questionable. Regardless, there is an explaination on what a MOTT is, and how they fit into the whole Modern Arnis System. http://www.martialtalk.com/showthread.php?postid=308
I quote "The Master of Tapi-Tapi recognition is separate from and above rank and represents proficiency status within the art of Modern Arnis. It is an achievement award to its recipients to ensure the longevity and legacy of Modern Arnis. It is a declaration of commitment by the recipients to continue to keep Modern Arnis open and active for its practitioners. It is an honor and responsibility of the highest level awarded by Professor Presas. "
This would seem to indicate that a MOTT outranks a DATU. However, the MOTTS are all 5th degree or below (baring self promotion to Grandmaster Status which I believe is traditionally a 10th?) The Datus are 6th's (At least Tim Hartman, Dieter Knuttel and Kelly Worden are..I'm not certain of the others ranks)
Dan Anderson is also a 6th, "Senior Master" but not a Datu (that I know of)
Kelly Worden is a 6th, "Senior Blade Master" is I believe his title?
Beyond this, I'm foggy.
:asian:
You're right....the politics is a tad bit thick at times...
My understanding is that the Datus were all being reconized as being innovators and leaders of the arts.
Re- MOTTS : This thread has a reposting of a press release that some consider questionable. Regardless, there is an explaination on what a MOTT is, and how they fit into the whole Modern Arnis System. http://www.martialtalk.com/showthread.php?postid=308
I quote "The Master of Tapi-Tapi recognition is separate from and above rank and represents proficiency status within the art of Modern Arnis. It is an achievement award to its recipients to ensure the longevity and legacy of Modern Arnis. It is a declaration of commitment by the recipients to continue to keep Modern Arnis open and active for its practitioners. It is an honor and responsibility of the highest level awarded by Professor Presas. "
This would seem to indicate that a MOTT outranks a DATU. However, the MOTTS are all 5th degree or below (baring self promotion to Grandmaster Status which I believe is traditionally a 10th?) The Datus are 6th's (At least Tim Hartman, Dieter Knuttel and Kelly Worden are..I'm not certain of the others ranks)
Dan Anderson is also a 6th, "Senior Master" but not a Datu (that I know of)
Kelly Worden is a 6th, "Senior Blade Master" is I believe his title?
Beyond this, I'm foggy.
:asian:
As an aside, I wanted to mention that we try to allow all the different MA groups a voice. The sponsor of this particular section of Martial Talk is the WMAA, and while Tim Hartman is one of our moderators, the WMAA exercises no editorial control. (they just send me cash to pay the bills).
Any other MA group is welcome to sponsor forums here, or advertize, or post here. (ad rates are in the Support areas) Personally, I'd love to see more camp banners in the rotation, and a few more big feds on board.
The heat level has gotten a bit high in the past, but seems to be at a more tolerable level.
Personally, I think given the extent of the knowledge that both the MOTTS and the DATUS have, if they could ever put aside their personal issues, and such, and do a joint camp together, I believe it would blow the lid off anything, any other art has done.
Just my opinion.
:asian:
Any other MA group is welcome to sponsor forums here, or advertize, or post here. (ad rates are in the Support areas) Personally, I'd love to see more camp banners in the rotation, and a few more big feds on board.
The heat level has gotten a bit high in the past, but seems to be at a more tolerable level.
Personally, I think given the extent of the knowledge that both the MOTTS and the DATUS have, if they could ever put aside their personal issues, and such, and do a joint camp together, I believe it would blow the lid off anything, any other art has done.
Just my opinion.
:asian:
arnisandyz
Master Black Belt
Thanks for the info Kaith.
Here is another outsiders view. A newby to your system posted a legitimate question. Perhaps he/she was considering taking up Modern Arnis. Instead of answers, she gets the "political tour"of seven pages. If it were me, I might be turned off to joining an organization in such disorganization. I got my feet wet in FMA with Modern Arnis and can only guess that this is not what Remy Presas had in mind, and is not a good representation of what these talented people are capable of. For the good of your system, I hope all gets resolved.
Here is another outsiders view. A newby to your system posted a legitimate question. Perhaps he/she was considering taking up Modern Arnis. Instead of answers, she gets the "political tour"of seven pages. If it were me, I might be turned off to joining an organization in such disorganization. I got my feet wet in FMA with Modern Arnis and can only guess that this is not what Remy Presas had in mind, and is not a good representation of what these talented people are capable of. For the good of your system, I hope all gets resolved.
Part of the problem is that there isn't a single organization, but many many different ones. It gets very confusing.
I think a split of the topic may be in order...go with a "What is Modern Arnis, and where can I find training"
matter of fact, I think im gonna do that.
I think a split of the topic may be in order...go with a "What is Modern Arnis, and where can I find training"
matter of fact, I think im gonna do that.
ok, I started a "What is Modern Arnis, and where can I find training" thread. If you are looking for the answers to those 2 questions, please look there.
http://www.martialtalk.com/showthread.php?threadid=1010
:asian:
http://www.martialtalk.com/showthread.php?threadid=1010
:asian:
Dan Anderson
Master of Arts
A few words quickly. I don not know if "Senior Blade Master" is a Professor given title or not. The debate gets thick and political because people like to make it that way. There is nothing in writing BY PROF. PRESAS that I know of regarding seniority which is why the questions regarding seniority.
What is Modern Arnis? A modernization of the Filipino stick, blade and empty hand art by Remy Presas.
Where can I go to learn it? Look in the phone book.
Dan
What is Modern Arnis? A modernization of the Filipino stick, blade and empty hand art by Remy Presas.
Where can I go to learn it? Look in the phone book.
Dan
Looking at the two posts made by this user, and the fact that the first question asked was a very politically charged one, I myself wondered if it wasn't a troll or plant. If you are correct it is a shame but I am somewhat suspicious that this was a newbie to the system who nonetheless knew these terms and their proper spelling/acronym.
I agree. I spoke with someone else today now doing another martial art who worked with Prof. Presas early on and he expressed feelings similar to yours. It's a shame.
Some of the argument is the nature of this medium--note that the first responses were intended to be purely factual, but then people disagreed about what exactly the facts were, and what always happens on newsgroups inevitably happened. On the plus side we have not yet fallen afoul of Godwin's Law I believe!
Dan Anderson
Master of Arts
What is Godwin's Law? Is it a law or merely a rule of thumb?Dan :boing2:
D
Don Rearic
Guest
Originally posted by Dan Anderson
According to my records along with PEBKAC Errors and such...
"As a discussion grows in length, the probability of a comparison involving Nazis or Hitler approaches one."
Originally posted by Dan Anderson
It is an observation on the nature of arguments in USENET newsgroups: As the length of a thread increases the likelihood that one side will eventually compare the other side to Hitler or the Nazis tends toward 1. At this point the thread is generally considered worthless and the other side is the victor.
It happens all the time on USENET, hence its status as a "law". Luckily we haven't had it here yet!
See:
http://www.faqs.org/faqs/usenet/legends/godwin/
http://www.tuxedo.org/~esr/jargon/html/entry/Godwin's-Law.html
http://www.godwinslaw.com/
Dan Anderson
Master of Arts
Hmmmm...Interesting law. In the case of Modern Arnis heirarchy I see how it could be invoked or flagrantly violated. I think this thread should probably shift to something more enjoyable such a debate over which is better: domestic microbrews or imported beer? That one I could get into.
Dan:drinkbeer :ubercool:
Dan:drinkbeer :ubercool:
