Momentum
- Thread starter Badhabits
- Start date
You see how I'm using the term. A good example too. If you're framing to stop a lock or hold that's not going to end with a throw/takedown, then you're not trying to head off momentum.
It's been bugging me lately, for awhile now I've just been thinking of martial arts in terms of managing momentum. Trying to modify that way of thinking and I'm looking for concrete examples to help. What you said is the kind of thing I'm looking for.
Chasing (yang) an opponent rather than drawing them in (creating momentum) can be an example of not using their momentum/force against them. That's what I was trying to explain in my previous posts...
True but not quite specific enough. Almost surely the other guy will be coming at you with some form of momentum to hurt you, so chasing or retreating would both be attempts to preemptively handle momentum. The momentum in this example would be a collision with the fist and/or the throw
In dropbears example using framing to stop a lock or choke not using momentum would qualify. Framing to stop a throw or takedown would not since there's momentum being used for those.
Sometimes you may want to stop an opponent's momentum, getting them stuck in a position, in order to attack them.
- In striking art, you want head on collision.
- In throw art, you want rear end collision.
Both are A + B > A.
Example of head on collision - You come; I stop you.
Example of rear end collision - You come; I let you come, and lead you into the emptiness.
windwalker099
2nd Black Belt
What kind of examples are you looking for ?
In CMA it's refered to as 化劲 (huà jìn).
transforming force or dissolving momentum
Some styles specialize in this..
"Traditional martial arts training method for Huajin: Using a half-ball to demonstrate the advantages of Xingyiquan's active shoulder in actual combat"
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isshinryuronin
Senior Master
I prefer not to think about it that way, "handling/managing momentum," in most situations (except for, as you said, "stopping" it). To me it's a secondary or even tertiary factor. It is an element of an attack (like speed, angle or power, or a combination of these), not the attack (the primary factor) itself. So, I don't think about it as a separate thing to concern myself with. I've got enough to deal with in a fight. I may step off-line, but this isn't to avoid momentum, but to avoid having to do a hard block and to open my angles of attack.
Momentum is something that is built up during an attack over a span of time and distance. This is something, therefor, you have to wait for to "receive" it, perhaps as in aikido. To me, in my karate view, this is a defensive mindset. In close self-defense combat there is not time/distance to build momentum; it is usually a non-factor as I short-circuit a movement before this happens. Most of the time I simply concern myself with the opponent's attack and not it's various specifics. I'm probably not adequately explaining myself, but that's the way I see it.
Momentum is a way of building power in an attack. I don't rely on this as I fight close-in and depend on chinkuchi for my power. Linear momentum is hard to stop and can leave you out of position at the end. Non-linear momentum can be effectively used to maintain power during a circular change of angle in the attack (perhaps as in doing two consecutive attacks or a block and attack, with the same hand). I use momentum in this sense to keep my action fluid.
Longer range powerful attacks and attacks with club or staff do provide opportunity to utilize the opponent's momentum as he has time to build it up and overcommit and you have more time to prepare.
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drop bear
Sr. Grandmaster
If that is where you are headed. Then possibly also mechanical advantage. Which is possibly the meta concept of framing. Which would kind of be different but supplementary to momentum.
So momentum is the movement. Posture is the mechanical advantage.
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Only chasing an opponent then striking them is not using their momentum against them. Also, the chasee can use your chasing momentum against you.
I'm not understanding the benefit of your "aim not to handle momentum."
Here is an article on the benefits of "Leading Momentum" from the blog you linked.
“Leading” momentum – how realistic is it?
Right, but stopping their momentum still falls under managing momentum that's being directed at you
Right, but those all involve using momentum- In striking art, you want head on collision.
- In throw art, you want rear end collision.
Both are A + B > A.
Example of head on collision - You come; I stop you.
Example of rear end collision - You come; I let you come, and lead you into the emptiness.
We're also managing momentum here
Couldn't chinkuchi be thought of as an element of efficiently delivering momentum? Albeit possibly lower amounts of momentum? Wouldn't short circuiting an attack/cutting it off at the source be another example of preemptively handling momentum? Same with stepping off line.
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Clinching for the purposes of getting to slow things down, and throw elbows/knees (not sweeps). Sometimes it's to try and stop their momentum, but there are plenty of times where I'll be at distance and purposefully enter with the plan of getting to a clinch and throw some knees. I wouldn't consider that momentum management.
You are right though, a lot of martial arts is about managing either your own momentum, or the opponents, and that's not a bad way to look at it. There are whole martial arts built around that philosophy.
You are right though, a lot of martial arts is about managing either your own momentum, or the opponents, and that's not a bad way to look at it. There are whole martial arts built around that philosophy.
I'm not aiming to not handle momentum.Only chasing an opponent then striking them is not using their momentum against them. Also, the chasee can use your chasing momentum against you.
I'm not understanding the benefit of your "aim not to handle momentum."
Here is an article on the benefits of "Leading Momentum" from the blog you linked.
“Leading” momentum – how realistic is it?
www.wayofleastresistance.net
So striking uses momentum to do damage. Punch, kick, elbow, forearm, knee, whatever...all use momentum.
Throws and takedowns use momentum.
Blocking, slipping, moving out of the way in general are all ways of avoiding momentum being directed at you.
Training drills and exercises are ways of increasing ability to generate, receive, avoid etc momentum.
What are things we do in martial arts that are NOT geared towards handling momentum, thats what I'm trying to wheedle out here.
So true! I've been looking at it from this perspective for so long now I feel like it's sort of become a mental framework to see martial arts through. But it's been bugging me. Kinda like being locked into a certain set way of thought, which I don't believe is a good thing. So this thread I guess is part of my recent attempt to change that way of thinking and get out of that mental framework.
Chinkuchi, stable structure, proper tension throughout the body, relaxation in the body- wouldn't all these have to do with efficiently generating or resisting momentum in one form or another?
windwalker099
2nd Black Belt
There are none. Momentum, in whatever form it takes, is something all martial arts have to deal with. Everything done is done to handle it. Even arts that focus on the "intent" preceding physical actions that generate momentum are still dealing with potential momentum.
