Modern Arnis Symposium

[Dan Anderson]

Bloodwood,
I have met with Dr. Barber and he shares something with all of us, yourself included - passion. Obviously you passion shows in your disdain or non-liking of Bram Frank. Okay. Bram does have a take it or leave it style of personality. You and I are on different sides of the coin regarding it. Dr. Barber does have a point in that there are 9 other instructors who have committed themselves who you might miss out on. Oh well, it is your call on whether you want to attend or not. Personally, I hope you do so that I can meet you. I have read a number of your posts and you are passionate about your feelings regarding the art. There is no dishonor in having passion.

Paul,
Thanks for the offer of a hug but I'll decline.

Bram,
You get that kind of money our of the camps. Damn, I'm in the wrong business!

DoctorB,
This sounds like, in the words of the Beatles song "Being For The Benefit Of Mr. Kite," A splendid time is guaranteed for all. I will be there and am looking forward to it. On a personal note, have you received the CD I sent you and if so, what do you think? Still waiting for book info.

Yours,
Dan Anderson

 

[bloodwood]

Thanks to DoctorB, Paul and Dan for clearing the air. I will do my best to attend and to promote the event. I do want this symposium to succeed and I'm sure it will, considering the fact that we all are so passionate about what we do and want. I guess my points were heard, but I didn't intend for them to cause such an outburst. We sure can hammer away at a post, but in the end it seems to get things out there on the table and straightened out.

 

[BRAM]

Sorry that my response caused any discomfort...
didn't mean to insult anyone...
I'm really a soft hearted soft spoken type of guy...
just ask Dan, or Kelly or DrJ or Dougie....
Of course no one has to like me...
you ( thats a generalized 'you') might pick something up from training with me..or you might not...
Datu Kelly and I cut...

I will not repeat my rant..nor my position..Its stated..

This gathering of the flock is very important..and if its a one time event or the start of a tradition..BUT there's only ONE first time..
Woodstock #2???? give me a break..ROFL....

Have to go teach Knife-Counter Knife @ the Israeli Security Expo and the Commandments of Steel...

Talk to you guys later...

Bram

 

[BRAM]

Bloodwood..Guess as a good Jewish kid I was reading from back to front onthis thread and found out if I'm there you won't be...
Isn't that a bit of cutting of your nose to spite your face?
Why not come, get in my face and tell me you're training with everyone else BUT me..Why deny yourself the pleasure of those other instructors?
Hey..you don't like me ..that's OK. Don't miss out on the other guys cause you dislike me....

I teach real deal people..You want to see and learn..great..you don't that's OK as well..My Modern Arnis might not be YOUR Modern Arnis...I don't bang sticks..as they say "slice n dice is REAL nice"

Roland: good point ..I do know some events happen generally around certain dates yearly..Like the Blade Show, Shot Show, MILIPOL., The Riddle of Steel, Water n Steel, the Commandments of Steel...I'm sure Dr Barber will check out the majors to make sure its not a conflict...

sometimes due to conflicts I have to pick n choose where i go..
But thats life, it's full of choices..DR Barber is attempting to be way out front on dates n times..Turns out to be a conflict? I guess thats life..

Again: sorry if I ruffled some of your sticks..

Paul: thanks for the email!!!! Your correct about reading tone & intent into the written word..not a good thing to do..ROFL...


be safe..

bram

 

[Bob Hubbard]

Good point... "Only 1 first".

and in all honesty, when we type, things are sometimes lost. For all the folks who have got various levels of heat, who's to say that when we are all together, we won't find we're really not that far apart after all?

Outta curiosity, has anything like this happened before in either the Arnis or FMA in general worlds?

Dr.B's got a huge task ahead of him, I don't envy him at all, but when this is all done, I've got no doubts that he (and us) won't look back and say "Well done".

:asian:

 

[Rich Parsons]

Originally posted by Kaith Rustaz

...

Outta curiosity, has anything like this happened before in either the Arnis or FMA in general worlds?
. . .
:asian:

Kaith et al,

I believe that in the 1970's there was a meeting
or gathering of many of the then great and the
now great and well know masters and practitioners
of FMA. There was a discussion of creating a
giant umbrella to share techniques and to come
together in bortherhood. Not choose to attend
and I am not sure of the results, but I have
been told that the event took place.

Now this was not a seminar or training meeting
but one to discuss further meetings for training.

I hope this event comes off.

I also wish all Modern Arnis events to be
successful and to honour our Late GM Presas.

Best Regards to all

Rich
:asian:

 

[bloodwood]

OK Bram, I get the point, and I do recognize good intentions when I see them. I don't make it a habit of disliking people without meeting them. If this discussion and the points I brought up were done in a room with all of us face to face I'm sure none of this would have happened. We here on Martial Talk are all working together for the good of the martial arts though sometimes it doesn't seem that way. I guess confrontation is just part of what we do in the martial arts.
As for my Modern Arnis, I'll take it any way it comes, in your face, full contact or just chilling and talking strategy. I will never pass up on learning from someone and I'm sure that if and when we meet there will be no problem. Hell I need all the friends I can get cause my wife and kids don't even want to talk to me anymore. They say all I ever want to talk about is Modern Arnis and what I want to do. I wonder what their problem is?

 

[BRAM]

I just saw Datu Kelly's response on their forum..it looks like he wants to come..but hes interested in a more central venue..
Gee Dr.J.....
want to consider Las Vegas? Viva Las Vegas...
Ok just joking...
hmmmmmm I live in Americas vacation Land..the house of the Mouse..
who knows...
Sticks and stones and mouse ears..
ROFL..
OK... I guess I'll come see Niagra Falls...Big water...
That is up by you right? Niagra Falls?
Did I spell that correctly?

Bram

 

[Bob Hubbard]

Close. Niagara Falls.

Heres a thought...Dr. B has said his focus is on 2003. If this one takes off, someone organize the 2004 one on the west coast. someone else do 2005 in the south. Etc. I think he'll agree theres no reason we can't have a roving gathering, so as to spread the art even further. Not everyone can afford the $200-$2000 in airfare. But a 5 hr drive isn't too much to ask. I drove 26 hrs 1 time for a seminar, and regularly do 2-4 for scifi/anime cons.

I think, with good intentions and good planning, all things are possible.

 

[DoctorB]

Originally posted by Kaith Rustaz

Good point... "Only 1 first".

and in all honesty, when we type, things are sometimes lost. For all the folks who have got various levels of heat, who's to say that when we are all together, we won't find we're really not that far apart after all?

Outta curiosity, has anything like this happened before in either the Arnis or FMA in general worlds?

Dr.B's got a huge task ahead of him, I don't envy him at all, but when this is all done, I've got no doubts that he (and us) won't look back and say "Well done".

:asian:

Thanks for the advanced confidence, Kaith, I truely appriciate it! Sure this is going to be a difficult job but not imposible. I am going to attempt to answer several questions raised in just this one post because my day is totally booked from 12:00 on through 9pm.

I do not know of any FMA or stylistic event such as what we are considering here. It is absolutely a first that i know of for Modern Arnis within the United States... to the best of my knowledge! If someone has other information, I would welcome it being shared.

As I stated in an earlier post, I am concentrating on 2003. If anyone wants to pick up and begin working on 2004 or 2005 and setting the venue on the western, southern, mid-western US or in Canada, i would not have any objections or hard feelings.

I fully understand costs and travel considerations. I will do my best to make the Symposium affordable to a majority of people.
Part of my day will be spent checking out possible venues and the costs associated with them. Those factors have to be put against how many people, swinging sticks, can the facility hold. A small gym/school will automaticly raise the potential cost per person. So a large space is preferable.

A large sapce allows for 2 or possibly 3 instructors working at the same time... yep, that means more decisions will have to be made. I would also like to have each instructor do 2 or 3 presentations apiece, so that if you miss someone the first time around you will have at least a second chance to work with that person. I also want to give each instructor at least 90 minutes per session. I have worked 30, 45 and 60 minute training seesions and those times are simply not enough for me. If that is the time frame that the host has to provide, then I just go along with the program... but I want to give people 90 minutes to show their skills.

Thus far I have only the instructors listed several days ago on the proposed program. But I will be writing tro several other Modern Arnis people on the weekend, informing them about the proposed Symposium and inviting them to participate. If they accept that will be great, if they decline, the show goes on without them. If they decline to acknowledge the invitation, I will make that known to all within a reasonable time frame of my choosing, however you can rest assured that I will make the non-acknowledgement known. I was taught that good manners always require an RSVP with regrets, when a specific invitation is issued.

I am happy to see that there is some agreement that the event is more important than egos. Please remember that my motto at every seminar and camp that I host is the same: check your ego at the door so that you can learn something!

Gotta go...

Respectfully to All,

Jerome Barber, Ed.D.

 

[Dieter]

Hi Jerome,

long time since we exchanged e-mails (1998). We missed out training Arnis on a sailboat, remember?

But now first of all: The symposium is a great idea.
Kelly Worden was also talking about something like that a few months ago in private e-mail, but you were the one to go out in the public first, so lets go for it.

In my opinion it is a big advantage, that you do not belong to any of the groups (IMAF Shea or Delaney, WMAA, WMAC or MARPPIO), which will make it much easier for the different groups to attend, because they do not have the feeling to support a seminar of the "foreign/wrong" group.

Regarding a similar event like this:
My student Alfred Plath and I have organized a FMA festival this February. We had 18 different FMA styles and instructors there teaching their styles. At saturday night we had a FMA gala, where different groups could give a demonstration. All together 450 participants took part in this event and up to now it is regarded the largest FMA seminar-event worldwide.
We had 11 lessons and each instructor taught 4 times. There were always 6 instructors teaching at the same time. The lessons were only 50 minutes and as you said, this is a little short, but we thought rather a little shorter and therfore more training than longer ones and less training. But 90 minutes would be of course the ideal length for a session.

For you have 10 or 12 instructors already and I am sure there will be more to come, please let me suggest, to make it a 3 day event, at least a 2 1/2 days one, say friday night and then saturday and sunday. This gives you time to place more instructors teaching their techniques. Also, for me coming from Germany, I of course would prefer a place easy and cheap to fly to. I know that Kelly has suggested Las Vegas and I have heared that they have large halls to place such an event. But this is only a thought and I will of course also come to Buffalo, when it will take place there.

I will sure announce it her in Germany and perhaps I will come with several people. But it sure depends on the price too. But as you have said, you will try to make it a goods pice, because it will be good to attract as many people to this symposium as possible.

How about a little show at saturday night, where the different groups can present their flavour of Modern Arnis to the participants? I think this could be really interesting.

Here in Germany we also organize a 1 week Modern Arnis summercamp every 2nd year since 1989 with always around 6 instructors teachiing. Usually about 20 classes (lessons) in that week and always 3 - 4 teachers teaching simultaneously. Usually about 100 Modern Arnis practitioners are participating.
The next will come up September 9th - 15th 2003, so if some of you found the symposium great, you are cordially invited to come to Germany to train in our summercamp.
The fee is usually around 300 US$ including training, accomodation and food. So quite reasonable. And far enough away from the symposium to not get into a date conflict. I will post more details when I have them.

Anyway, back to your event, if I can be of assistance in sharing experience from the camps that we organized, I am more than willing to help.

I think, there will never be a united Modern Arnis again like under the Professor. And therfore this symposium is the bes that can happen to Modern Arnis, because it is a friendly come together of (hopefully) all Modern Arnis groups.
Those who will not be there will miss THE Modern Arnis event. And this means, that it might not be too important for them because other things are more important. OK then, but if it is not so important, why bother for them but go on with those, that find it important enough to attent. And I am sure there will be many.

And that would be something the Professor would really be proud of.

So Jerome, keep on going, you are doing the right thing.


Best regards from Germany


Datu Dieter Knüttel

 

[Dan Anderson]

I'm hooking up with Bob Quinn in August for a gig we're doing. If he hasn't heard about it by then, I'll fill his ear.

This looks like it's going to be the biggest Modern Arnis event in the history of the US besides RP landing here. What started out as an idea on the net will turn out to be truly a gathering of (____). We need a great slogan for the magazines and promotion. I like Deiter's idea of a Saturday night series of demos by the instructors so we can SEE them move as well as listen to them teach (and in my class, listen and listen and listen...I'll admit I have a tendency to go on and on). I truly hope ALL the different reps of Modern Arnis will be there. What a show we'll put on.

Jerome, thanks for the original thread and the effot you're putting into this. I'm behind you 100%.
Dan

 

[Guro Harold]

Hi Dan,

Is this gig you are teaming up with Bob Quinn a public Modern Arnis event? If so could you please post the details on MT? I used to go to Bob's camps in Atlanta during the summer.

Thanks,

Palusut

 

[Dan Anderson]

Palusut,
Yes, it will be a Modern Arnis camp. Brain dead of me not to mention anything sooner. Bob is hosting it in Atlanta August 23-25. I will get all the details and post up a new thread in the next couple of days. Got a new grandchild coming in the next 24 hours so time is taken up.
Dan

 

[DoctorB]

Originally posted by Dan Anderson

I'm hooking up with Bob Quinn in August for a gig we're doing. If he hasn't heard about it by then, I'll fill his ear.

This looks like it's going to be the biggest Modern Arnis event in the history of the US besides RP landing here. What started out as an idea on the net will turn out to be truly a gathering of (____). We need a great slogan for the magazines and promotion. I like Deiter's idea of a Saturday night series of demos by the instructors so we can SEE them move as well as listen to them teach (and in my class, listen and listen and listen...I'll admit I have a tendency to go on and on). I truly hope ALL the different reps of Modern Arnis will be there. What a show we'll put on.

Jerome, thanks for the original thread and the effot you're putting into this. I'm behind you 100%.
Dan

Hello Dan,

I am not very good with slogans, so if people would like to try their hand at developing one, let's have them do it and pass the info to me. In fact we can have a poll on the best slogan if we get several to choice from.

Actually my idea was to have people teaching throughout the Symposium, no merely Saturday night . I want to see people moving and teaching for three days. Discussions and roundtables are an option but I am not really interested in talking in a formal presentation - the talking (posting on the web) has already been done - now it is time to see what people can do in the floor.

Jerome Barber, Ed.D.

 

[DoctorB]

Originally posted by Dieter

Hi Jerome,

long time since we exchanged e-mails (1998). We missed out training Arnis on a sailboat, remember?

But now first of all: The symposium is a great idea.
Kelly Worden was also talking about something like that a few months ago in private e-mail, but you were the one to go out in the public first, so lets go for it.

In my opinion it is a big advantage, that you do not belong to any of the groups (IMAF Shea or Delaney, WMAA, WMAC or MARPPIO), which will make it much easier for the different groups to attend, because they do not have the feeling to support a seminar of the "foreign/wrong" group.

Regarding a similar event like this:
My student Alfred Plath and I have organized a FMA festival this February. We had 18 different FMA styles and instructors there teaching their styles. At saturday night we had a FMA gala, where different groups could give a demonstration. All together 450 participants took part in this event and up to now it is regarded the largest FMA seminar-event worldwide.
We had 11 lessons and each instructor taught 4 times. There were always 6 instructors teaching at the same time. The lessons were only 50 minutes and as you said, this is a little short, but we thought rather a little shorter and therfore more training than longer ones and less training. But 90 minutes would be of course the ideal length for a session.

For you have 10 or 12 instructors already and I am sure there will be more to come, please let me suggest, to make it a 3 day event, at least a 2 1/2 days one, say friday night and then saturday and sunday. This gives you time to place more instructors teaching their techniques. Also, for me coming from Germany, I of course would prefer a place easy and cheap to fly to. I know that Kelly has suggested Las Vegas and I have heared that they have large halls to place such an event. But this is only a thought and I will of course also come to Buffalo, when it will take place there.

I will sure announce it her in Germany and perhaps I will come with several people. But it sure depends on the price too. But as you have said, you will try to make it a goods pice, because it will be good to attract as many people to this symposium as possible.

How about a little show at saturday night, where the different groups can present their flavour of Modern Arnis to the participants? I think this could be really interesting.

Here in Germany we also organize a 1 week Modern Arnis summercamp every 2nd year since 1989 with always around 6 instructors teachiing. Usually about 20 classes (lessons) in that week and always 3 - 4 teachers teaching simultaneously. Usually about 100 Modern Arnis practitioners are participating.
The next will come up September 9th - 15th 2003, so if some of you found the symposium great, you are cordially invited to come to Germany to train in our summercamp.
The fee is usually around 300 US$ including training, accomodation and food. So quite reasonable. And far enough away from the symposium to not get into a date conflict. I will post more details when I have them.

Anyway, back to your event, if I can be of assistance in sharing experience from the camps that we organized, I am more than willing to help.

I think, there will never be a united Modern Arnis again like under the Professor. And therfore this symposium is the bes that can happen to Modern Arnis, because it is a friendly come together of (hopefully) all Modern Arnis groups.
Those who will not be there will miss THE Modern Arnis event. And this means, that it might not be too important for them because other things are more important. OK then, but if it is not so important, why bother for them but go on with those, that find it important enough to attent. And I am sure there will be many.

And that would be something the Professor would really be proud of.

So Jerome, keep on going, you are doing the right thing.


Best regards from Germany


Datu Dieter Knüttel

Hello Dieter,

Good hearing from you again. I sure do remember the idea of training on the boat, and we certinly can look into that for the 2003 Symposium. In fact I chose the term "Symposium" because I wanted to distingush this event from other program involving Modern Arnis. I also wanted to avoid the usage of the term "gathering" as used by several other organizations.
I want the Modern Arnis Symposium to be viewed as an open event where we can and will see as many variants and senior instructors of the art as possible in one place.

Your observation that I am not a memebr of any of the Modern Arnis groups is correct and should be helpful in getting this Symposium going. There is no "enemies list" or "wrong group" from my perspective. I think that the Symposium is a reasonable way for the different groups of people and students to meet, talk, demonstrate, compare and contrast their versions of the art. My attitude is quite simple regarding this matter - if you can do the art, then show up and do it!

I like the German format that you have mentioned and that is what I had in mind. As for Las Vegas, I can't do that, because you really need someone there to coordinate things and search out the venue. Buffalo, is better for me; but if Kelly or someone else wanted to set up Las Vegas for 2005, I would be the first to encourage them to do it. There are also other cities that would be more than acceptable for this kind of event. I also believe that a Symposium, once every two years is a better choice than being held annually - that gets old very quickly.

Jerome Barber, Ed.D.

 

[Dieter]

Actually my idea was to have people teaching throughout the Symposium, no merely Saturday night . I want to see people moving and teaching for three days.

Hi Jerome,

this is not what Dan and I ment. Of course there should be teaching all the time. But that means, that when you have 3 or 4 groups going at the same time, you always miss something.

The idea of the Gala at saturday night is, that all participants come together and the different groups will give a Modern Arnis demo of 5 - 10 minutes, so one can see the differences and similarities.
NOT TO SAY WHO IS THE BEST AT THE END, BUT TO ENJOY AND APPRECIATE ALL THE DIFFERENT FLAVOURS OF MODERN ARNIS. Remy taught different people differently and he taught differently and different techniques at different times of his life. Wouldn´t that be something to see all theat at one evening on stage?
And in the end, it all comes from the Professor and all of it is Modern Arnis.

So this would be an additional to the teaching during the days.

Do you think it will be possible?

A note to Keith: Can´t we join the different threads that all have to do with the symposium to one thread?
I think this would help. Just my 2 cents.

Regards from Germany

Datu Dieter Knüttel

 

[DoctorB]

Originally posted by Dieter



Hi Jerome,

this is not what Dan and I ment. Of course there should be teaching all the time. But that means, that when you have 3 or 4 groups going at the same time, you always miss something.

The idea of the Gala at saturday night is, that all participants come together and the different groups will give a Modern Arnis demo of 5 - 10 minutes, so one can see the differences and similarities.
NOT TO SAY WHO IS THE BEST AT THE END, BUT TO ENJOY AND APPRECIATE ALL THE DIFFERENT FLAVOURS OF MODERN ARNIS. Remy taught different people differently and he taught differently and different techniques at different times of his life. Wouldn´t that be something to see all theat at one evening on stage?
And in the end, it all comes from the Professor and all of it is Modern Arnis.

So this would be an additional to the teaching during the days.

Do you think it will be possible?

A note to Keith: Can´t we join the different threads that all have to do with the symposium to one thread?
I think this would help. Just my 2 cents.

Regards from Germany

Datu Dieter Knüttel

OK, sorry that I missed that point. Good idea, now let's see if it can be worked into the plans. Still have to find a place to hold the event and keep the costs down. Then there is the is final event as you envision it... nice idea, thanks.

Jerome Barber, Ed.D.

 

[Bob Hubbard]

I have merged the posts on the symposium here to make it easier for everyone to discuss this. Please concentrate your posting on the symposium here.

Thank you.
-Kaith.

 

[Dan Anderson]

Originally posted by DoctorB



Hello Dan,
Actually my idea was to have people teaching throughout the Symposium, no merely Saturday night . I want to see people moving and teaching for three days. Discussions and roundtables are an option but I am not really interested in talking in a formal presentation - the talking (posting on the web) has already been done - now it is time to see what people can do in the floor.

Jerome Barber, Ed.D.

Jerome,
Hell, give me the chance to teach and I can teach and talk for three days straight. Ask any of my students when it's time for class to end and I am in "teach & lecture" mode.

Humor aside, an evening demo of the instructors and seniors would be great. I think the trick would be to keep it short and find out in advance who is going to demo what so the scheduling will be varied. You don't want 6 instructors demonstrating anyos 1-4 back to back. It will make it more entertaining that way.

We also don't need to "talk in a formal presentation." I think get some of the Canadians to bring down some Gibsons, pour a few brews and break bread amongst ourselves and we all should have a good time.

That is what I'll be there for. There's people I haven't met (Tom Bolden, Hoch Hockeim, etc.) and some I haven't seen in quite a while (Dieter, Shishir, etc.) and new and old friends I'd like to see again. Personally, I predict Saturday night, done right, is going to go late into the evening. I, for one, am going to "close the place down" with a big smile on my face and be ready to teach the next day.

Dan