Moderation Level

[elder999]

All I can say is prove it! Where are your written records and deeds of ownership? Not got any have you? No flag neither! {sticks out tongue ... in a mature way of course :lol:}. Pics or it didn't happen .

Dude.

How can you buy or sell the sky, the warmth of the land? The idea is strange to us. If we do not own the freshness of the air and sparkle of the water, how can you buy them ? Chief Seattle, 1854.....maybe

I say "maybe," because Sealth did indeed make a speech when the U.S. government attempted to "buy" a bunch of land. He made his speech in Dwamish, and it was translated by someone present into Chinook, which was them then translated into English. Who knows what he really said? Some would call it a myth, and for some it's fact.

I call it history, though-it's a very....Indian viewpoint-if he didn't say these things, any number of others would have.

Take your written records, flags, and deeds of ownership, and wipe your **** with them, for all they really mean.[sticks out his tongue, in a mature way, of course...]...:lfao:

 

[Gorilla]

You've seen Granfire's signature haven't you? The other thing is that despite both countries having a common(ish) language we are actually quite foreign to each other. If Americans forget that we are British and imagine we are a foreign country they'd understand us rather better. We don't pretend to understand Americans in the same way that parents don't understand their teenagers lol!

What??? Huh??? LOL!!! Stop telling me what to do MOM!!!

 

[Dirty Dog]

Wow. Is thread drift one word or two?

 

[Tez3]

Wow. Is thread drift one word or two?

If you think about it there's no thread drift, it's the same thing. We assume because we speak much the same language we understand each other but our experiences are different, our views are different and our way of life is different but misunderstandings happen because we think we are the same, that we spend our days in the same way thinking the same things. It's no different in martial arts, we assume because people do 'martial arts' they are doing it for the same reasons we are, that they train they same way etc etc, you get the 'drift'. What is really happening is that on both cases we project our own personalities if you like onto others, so if I think knowing all the history of my art is the important thing I'd get angry when someone says well it doesn't matter what the history is as long as you can fight. If you believe being a high Dan grade gives you the right to be snotty with lower ranks then you will be upset when the lower ranks answer back and not show you the respect you think you deserve and get, at least to your face, in your own style. It's a shock for some perhaps to come on here and be questioned when they don't in their own styles. The ego needs to be left behind if you want a good debate here, also don't project what you perceive someones feelings are onto them, so often people say wow you're angry, you're bitter' you're having a hissy fit when they aren't it's what the reader has thought not what the writer wrote!. We have people telling us in the Uk we are brainwqashed about guns etc etc but we just don't have the same history or experiences that Americans do with them so neither side can understand the other, likewise in martial arts we often don't think someone else is correct because we are basing it on our own experiences rather than looking at someone elses, in many ways familiarity does breed contempt.

Look at the UK as if it were a foreign country you don't know instead of one you think you do, look at other's martial arts in the same way and enjoy the differences.

 

[Sukerkin]

I say "maybe," because Sealth did indeed make a speech when the U.S. government attempted to "buy" a bunch of land. He made his speech in Dwamish, and it was translated by someone present into Chinook, which was them then translated into English. Who knows what he really said? Some would call it a myth, and for some it's fact.

Soooo ... got a video of that? :lol:

 

[Dirty Dog]

Look at the UK as if it were a foreign country you don't know instead of one you think you do, look at other's martial arts in the same way and enjoy the differences.

I lived there for 7 years, and took my wife there to marry her on the walls of Amberly Castle. I think I know the UK better than most Americans.

And yes, I realise that you were using the generic "you" and not the specific.

Still not sure it has anything to do with moderation levels though...

 

[Tez3]

I lived there for 7 years, and took my wife there to marry her on the walls of Amberly Castle. I think I know the UK better than most Americans.

And yes, I realise that you were using the generic "you" and not the specific.

Still not sure it has anything to do with moderation levels though...[/QUOTE]

It's to do with tolerance and actually thinking about what the other person is talking about rather than thinking 'my martial art/country is superior therefore I'm right', it's about coming from different backgrounds which we think we know but don't. Even in TKD there are different experiences, different ways of training, there's no 'right' one, however some may wish theirs is.

How different did you find the UK? As different as Judo and karate are even though they share a few things? Or like Judo and BJJ?

 

[Dirty Dog]

I lived there for 7 years, and took my wife there to marry her on the walls of Amberly Castle. I think I know the UK better than most Americans.

And yes, I realise that you were using the generic "you" and not the specific.

Still not sure it has anything to do with moderation levels though...[/QUOTE]

It's to do with tolerance and actually thinking about what the other person is talking about rather than thinking 'my martial art/country is superior therefore I'm right', it's about coming from different backgrounds which we think we know but don't. Even in TKD there are different experiences, different ways of training, there's no 'right' one, however some may wish theirs is.

How different did you find the UK? As different as Judo and karate are even though they share a few things? Or like Judo and BJJ?

Sticking with what I'm personally familiar with, I find the US and the UK to be about as dissimilar as the KKW and the ITF. Different in small ways (like the meaning of "keep your pecker up") but similar in most of the major ways, each with both good and bad points.

And since I am an American, I am right.

 

[Tez3]

Sticking with what I'm personally familiar with, I find the US and the UK to be about as dissimilar as the KKW and the ITF. Different in small ways (like the meaning of "keep your pecker up") but similar in most of the major ways, each with both good and bad points.

And since I am an American, I am right.

Oh lord now you're for it...and I don't mean about the Brit/American thing..... the TKD thing.


I find a lot of differences tbh and chatting about this with the American exchange officer we had he did too, perhaps it depends on where in America you come from?

 

[Steve]

Oh lord now you're for it...and I don't mean about the Brit/American thing..... the TKD thing.


I find a lot of differences tbh and chatting about this with the American exchange officer we had he did too, perhaps it depends on where in America you come from?

There's a thing that Elder brought up, but you kind of poo poo'd. America, much like Canada, is very, very large. Our States are as big as most of the countries in Europe. So, when you talk about America, you are talking about a country that is so different from State to State that it can be like going to a different country.

In other words, the point you've made, Tez, is a good one but is one that I believe most Americans have internalized to the point that it's a given. I speak English much as they do in Louisiana, but the similarities we share are superficial. Consider the way that Americans refer to Californians or Texans.

Point being, Brits ARE foreign to us, but I don't know whether you can accurately say that you're MORE foreign that we are to each other.

Or maybe I'm completely wrong and need to drink another cup of coffee.



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[elder999]

Or maybe I'm completely wrong and need to drink another cup of coffee.

No, that's pretty much it.

I'm from New York, originally-I won't even get into the things people assume because of that, even though I've lived in New Mexico for 18 years now............
,......of course, I do think I'm better than anyone else, but it's because I am, not because I'm from New York...:lfao:

 

[Tez3]

There's a thing that Elder brought up, but you kind of poo poo'd. America, much like Canada, is very, very large. Our States are as big as most of the countries in Europe. So, when you talk about America, you are talking about a country that is so different from State to State that it can be like going to a different country.

In other words, the point you've made, Tez, is a good one but is one that I believe most Americans have internalized to the point that it's a given. I speak English much as they do in Louisiana, but the similarities we share are superficial. Consider the way that Americans refer to Californians or Texans.

Point being, Brits ARE foreign to us, but I don't know whether you can accurately say that you're MORE foreign that we are to each other.

Or maybe I'm completely wrong and need to drink another cup of coffee.

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I've actually pointed out several times on MT that America is massively larger than we are, which is why things like our NHS, gun laws etc probably would never work for you. The analogy of course with martial arts is the huge organisations as opposed to ( or opposed as in against!) the small independents or even those with no organisations. I don't know whether you are foreign to each other or not tbh, there's not a lot of discussion about the different states on here. I don't know how much mind sets are different among Americans which will be why I haven't mentioned it. I also don't know what the different mind sets are among the different TKDists but I don't see why a couple of people should act as if they are superior to all others and by doing so try to demean others. this is somewhere for discussion, you shouldn't be mocked because your ranking, in another style at that, is deemed insufficient to be able to join in the conversations. You shouldn't receive neg rep because you disagree with something in polite way, debates shouldn't be conducted by rep.


You can have the coffee, we're on the drams watching Scotland and France, the 'Auld Alliance', play each other at rugby.

 

[Steve]

I've actually pointed out several times on MT that America is massively larger than we are, which is why things like our NHS, gun laws etc probably would never work for you. The analogy of course with martial arts is the huge organisations as opposed to ( or opposed as in against!) the small independents or even those with no organisations. I don't know whether you are foreign to each other or not tbh, there's not a lot of discussion about the different states on here. I don't know how much mind sets are different among Americans which will be why I haven't mentioned it. I also don't know what the different mind sets are among the different TKDists but I don't see why a couple of people should act as if they are superior to all others and by doing so try to demean others. this is somewhere for discussion, you shouldn't be mocked because your ranking, in another style at that, is deemed insufficient to be able to join in the conversations. You shouldn't receive neg rep because you disagree with something in polite way, debates shouldn't be conducted by rep.


You can have the coffee, we're on the drams watching Scotland and France, the 'Auld Alliance', play each other at rugby.

Exactly. You don't know. I'm trying to inform you. Elder is, too. You're saying that we don't understand how foreign you are. I believe that most Americans do because we live with it even within our country.

Take the gun laws and NHS. It's easy to get the impression that "America" has a position. But it's nowhere near that simple. America has an official position, which is reflected in Federal law. But then each State has a position, which is distinct and frequently at complete odds with the National one. Healthcare works differently in Washington State than it does in Massachusetts. Gun laws are dramatically different in California and in Arizona, just a few hours away by car.

What I'm saying is that you make a good point, and that it's a good reminder. But don't make the same mistake in considering Americans to be homogenous. Just as I'm sure you'd balk at mushing together the Welsh and... well, from what you've said in the past... anyone else.

Regarding rep, I don't know what to say about that. I think people can rep for whatever reason they want, good or bad. It's just not that big a deal to me.

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[elder999]

. Gun laws are dramatically different in California and in Arizona, just a few hours away by car.
.

Hell, I can strap on my Glock in the shoulder holster, put a jacket on and drive to Arizona or Colorado-set foot in California or take off that jacket in Denver, though, and I'm breaking the law.....

 

[Tez3]

Exactly. You don't know. I'm trying to inform you. Elder is, too. You're saying that we don't understand how foreign you are. I believe that most Americans do because we live with it even within our country.

Take the gun laws and NHS. It's easy to get the impression that "America" has a position. But it's nowhere near that simple. America has an official position, which is reflected in Federal law. But then each State has a position, which is distinct and frequently at complete odds with the National one. Healthcare works differently in Washington State than it does in Massachusetts. Gun laws are dramatically different in California and in Arizona, just a few hours away by car.

What I'm saying is that you make a good point, and that it's a good reminder. But don't make the same mistake in considering Americans to be homogenous. Just as I'm sure you'd balk at mushing together the Welsh and... well, from what you've said in the past... anyone else.

Regarding rep, I don't know what to say about that. I think people can rep for whatever reason they want, good or bad. It's just not that big a deal to me.

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Actually what I'm saying is we are foreign to each other. I'm not discussing what Americans are to each other...because I don't know. I'm not assuming anything about Americans, my points about people using the NHS etc to compare with American systems etc are taken from specific posts on MT rather than assuming all Amricans are alike. I'm talking only from my own viewpoint which is that Americans often think they know us but don't which was an analogy for martial arts in that because we do one style we can imgaine all must operate (not do techniques the same though but in basic operations, gradings, belts, membership that sort of thing) the same way.

I don't care what rep people give me, but do find it's bad manners especially from those in particular who espouse martial arts tenets and manners when they don't leave their name or use it to be insulting or rude, I'm aware it's reportable but again it makes work for the mods, and it serves no purpose other than for someone to vent their spleen.

 

[Steve]

Actually what I'm saying is we are foreign to each other. I'm not discussing what Americans are to each other...because I don't know. I'm not assuming anything about Americans, my points about people using the NHS etc to compare with American systems etc are taken from specific posts on MT rather than assuming all Amricans are alike. I'm talking only from my own viewpoint which is that Americans often think they know us but don't which was an analogy for martial arts in that because we do one style we can imgaine all must operate (not do techniques the same though but in basic operations, gradings, belts, membership that sort of thing) the same way.

I don't care what rep people give me, but do find it's bad manners especially from those in particular who espouse martial arts tenets and manners when they don't leave their name or use it to be insulting or rude, I'm aware it's reportable but again it makes work for the mods, and it serves no purpose other than for someone to vent their spleen.

Let me back up.

Tez. I understand what you're saying. You're saying that Brits and Americans are foreign to each other. I get that.

I also get that you don't know much about Americans, and that you're not assuming anything about us.

Noted. Okay?

Now... to move the conversation forward.

So, Tez. You mentioned earlier that you don't know much about the distinct cultural diversity that exists in America. Let me share some of what I know, as an American who has lived in many different parts of the country. {insert all of the previous comments regarding geographical and cultural diversity in America here}

Point being, it's easy, particularly on these boards, to get an impression about "Americans" which isn't representative of most Americans. So, when Elder and I attempt to agree with you, but clarify a couple of things, it's not because we don't understand your point. It's because we DO understand your point.


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[Tez3]

Let me back up.

Tez. I understand what you're saying. You're saying that Brits and Americans are foreign to each other. I get that.

I also get that you don't know much about Americans, and that you're not assuming anything about us.

Noted. Okay?

Now... to move the conversation forward.

So, Tez. You mentioned earlier that you don't know much about the distinct cultural diversity that exists in America. Let me share some of what I know, as an American who has lived in many different parts of the country. {insert all of the previous comments regarding geographical and cultural diversity in America here}

Point being, it's easy, particularly on these boards, to get an impression about "Americans" which isn't representative of most Americans. So, when Elder and I attempt to agree with you, but clarify a couple of things, it's not because we don't understand your point. It's because we DO understand your point.


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then say so and don't be so long winded about it. Yes Tez you are correct as always will do it! :lol:


I'm basically trying to show Dirty Dog though what relevance this has to the OP rather than preach to the converted!

I did put up a thread a while back asking if the views here were representative of America or way out. I think the concensus was that there aren't so many right wingers in reality lol!

 

[Carol]

Feels like I just walked in to The Study for some reason....

 

[MJS]

May I suggest looking at their track record. Look at repeated patterns. Are they making an effort to get along with those they disagree with? Are they making an effort to look at 'their' side of an issue. Are they able to separate the member FROM the issue?

Depends on the person. Some do what you said, others do not. This is why it often takes a few days for us to review things.

Or,

Do they come into a thread, do a drive-by jab and then zip out? If questioned about a little slice of sarcasm, do they respond with a legitimate justification? Do they respond at all? Even if asked directly my a mod or admin? Are they a shill for another member? Do they take threads off topic with regularity? Not a bit of normal thread drift, but stupid stuff like arguing whether falling down is flying for two pages.

Again, it varies from person to person.

People can be direct. People can challenge your views in a professional, respectful manner. People can question what you've stated, again in a professional, repectful manner. That isn't a problem. It is drive-bys, intentional sarcasm, intentional thread drift, arguing stupid crap page after page. That is a problem.

You are correct. Like I said, alot of it comes down to wording.

 

[Daniel Sullivan]

Wow. A six page thread on why this section needs heavier moderation than other parts of the site.

There isn't really anything to discuss; the people who repeatedly cause the problems have all been talked to, both on the forum by those of us with the courtesy to tell them why their behavior is problematic, and by the mods both on the boards and behind the scenes.

Common courtesy may be uncommon, but everyone knows what it is. Its a pretty standard part of elementary school. It is simply a question of caring enough to put it into use. Some people actually take pride in being sarcastic or in eschewing common courtesy. Others have some weird, quasi evangelistic crusade to expose frauds and what they see as practices damaging to on art or another.

Whatever the reasons that people have for bad behavior, make no mistake, they are fully aware of what they are doing and simply choose to ignore the TOS, mod warnings, and friendly 'heads up' comments from others.

We can discuss why we need to behave or we can just behave. Personally, I trust the mod staff to make the best decision about how to handle it. Whatever decision is made, the rest of us need to respectfully abide by.