Moderation Level

[MJS]

Let me toss this out for consideration and possible resolution. What is the best option if one or two members (who are buddies) continually drop little sarcastic or negative remarks that are designed to put you in a bad light or derail the thread? Probably not quite enough to RTM, or perhaps it is but I'm hesitant. Almost like a drive-by. Usually sarcastic or off-topic and definitely non-constructive. The ignore feature isn't an option imo as it is often a personal zinger. And I think a lot of people would feel compelled to defend themselves. I don't want to overburden the mods, but at the same time this sort of thing just really needs to stop. Too be honest, if these folks really had a legitimate dislike of/for me I'd rather them just be upfront and say exactly how they feel and why and then see if there is any validity to it. If so, then it can be addressed. If it isn't valid, then they really need to zip up the sarcasm.

My intention isn't to act like them or go to their level. But sometimes you just have had it up to your eyeballs with them and you engage them which ends up in warnings and thread closings. I've tried the pm route, neither wishes to engage. Not enough of an audience in a pm. I've offered to give them free reign in an off-board venue, neither will accept. They seem content to zip in for a drive-by and then zip out. Or mix in some unnecessary sarcasm or negative comments with something legitimate. I'm not talking about simple disagreement, I'm talking about simple uncivil behavior.

So I'd like to hear your thoughts. Appreciate it.

You could hit the RTM. The mods will review and either adress it or if the majority feel its not actionable, we usually send a PM to the reporting person, advising them of such.

You could PM one of the mods, saying something like, "Hey can you check out this post. Seems like rude, but I'm not really sure, so rather than hit the RTM...."

Just a side note. The RTM feature has been abused in the past and at times, it still is. Like Bob said, its primary function is for rule violations. Could you hit it in the scenario you gave above? Sure, but of course, IMO, it'd be good to be pretty close to certain that it is a violation. Thread derailment....valid reason to RTM. Constantly being on the fence tossing little jabs. Yeah, thats something thats valid, as it happens all the time.

 

[Bob Hubbard]

As per the number of requests we're seeing these last few days, we're considering putting the KMA section under full moderation.
Meaning, you make a post, the -only- person who will see it until a mod gets around to reading it and oking it is you.

I always try to give our members what they want, and well, that seems to be what is wanted.
I don't understand this request, it'll really slow things down, but that seems to be the desire.

 

[Twin Fist]

who would possibly think this is a good idea?

 

[Bob Hubbard]

People who didn't get the message the last few times.

 

[Carol]

Hmmm.............I'm not seeing a lot of Supporting Members out there in KMA land.

You cause migraines for the volunteer mod staff here, the least you can do is kick in and help keep the lights on.

C'mon, kick in! Who's gonna put money where their mouth is? ** throws down gauntlet **

[FAQ] What is a Supporting Member? How do I become one?

 

[Dirty Dog]

Hmmm.............I'm not seeing a lot of Supporting Members out there in KMA land.

You cause migraines for the volunteer mod staff here, the least you can do is kick in and help keep the lights on.

C'mon, kick in! Who's gonna put money where their mouth is? ** throws down gauntlet **

[FAQ] What is a Supporting Member? How do I become one?

I fully agree that full moderation would suck. I also agree that being a supporting member is a good thing. I don't recall exactly, but I think my supporting membership came pretty soon after my registration as a new user.

And I try not to cause too many migraines.

 

[Twin Fist]

this is like the longest streak with no infractions since i joined for me....lol

 

[Bob Hubbard]

Actually, what we are leaning towards is just putting the 4 or 5 people in question in a 'all posts moderated' group which will be reviewed as we can, and let everyone else go as usual. Seems more fair to only moderate the folks demanding it.

 

[Jenna]

I agree. When it all kicks off in the playground / schoolyard, the teachers really must intervene. No right thinking person can expect infants and juniors to have acquired the sense to resolve situations theirselves. Really, what were you thinking, Bob and Mods? And just for the record, my dolly IS prettier than your dolly! And all y'all dollies!

 

[ralphmcpherson]

Actually, what we are leaning towards is just putting the 4 or 5 people in question in a 'all posts moderated' group which will be reviewed as we can, and let everyone else go as usual. Seems more fair to only moderate the folks demanding it.

I think thats the best outcome. Ive been here for the best part of 3 years now and up until recently Id never really felt any tension here (I still dont really). If there are people breaking the rules then I dont see a problem with their posts being moderated if it comes to that, but Id hate to see it get to a point where someone is heavily moderated just because people complain about them and for no other reason. Providing that person is respectful in their posts. Merely having a difference of opinion is not fair means for extra moderation though in my opinion.

 

[andyjeffries]

I think thats the best outcome. Ive been here for the best part of 3 years now and up until recently Id never really felt any tension here (I still dont really).

I agree with this, there generally isn't tension. Sure there are people on here who obviously don't get along (there's only one in my ignore filter and I may be removing that soon), but at the end of the day we're probably all adults, so if people are bickering, either filter out the meat of what they're saying or just ignore the bickering and skip ahead or read a different thread. Without the heat in the debate, the place would probably be a lot quieter...

 

[ralphmcpherson]

I agree with this, there generally isn't tension. Sure there are people on here who obviously don't get along (there's only one in my ignore filter and I may be removing that soon), but at the end of the day we're probably all adults, so if people are bickering, either filter out the meat of what they're saying or just ignore the bickering and skip ahead or read a different thread. Without the heat in the debate, the place would probably be a lot quieter...

Exactly right Andy, I actually think its a good thing that we have people who are genuinely passionate about their beliefs, irrespective of what they are. There are people here I dont agree with, but I dont hold it against them personally, we just have different views on tkd which leads to good healthy debate. There are definetly people here who dont agree but very rarely, if ever, do people cross the line from what Ive seen (or maybe Im going to the wrong threads).

 

[chrispillertkd]

I agree with this, there generally isn't tension. Sure there are people on here who obviously don't get along (there's only one in my ignore filter and I may be removing that soon), but at the end of the day we're probably all adults, so if people are bickering, either filter out the meat of what they're saying or just ignore the bickering and skip ahead or read a different thread. Without the heat in the debate, the place would probably be a lot quieter...

Passionate debate, yes. Repeatedly insulting people, no.

Pax,

Chris

 

[MJS]

Chris is correct. IMO, some good, strong, passionate debate is good, and it does make a thread rather interesting. I've passionately debated with many on here, about various things. Though I may disagree with what they're saying, it really takes away from the enjoyment of posting, if people start tossing in veiled insults, rude comments, etc.

Ex: Sorry, I disagree with you, and we may be at a point where we'll have to just agree to disagree. I'm set in my views, you in yours.

or...

You know what....you've got your head shoved so far up your *** its not even funny. The stuff that you're saying right now is so dumb. Why dont you get a clue!

Which one is the better route to take? I'd say option 1.

 

[andyjeffries]

Chris is correct. IMO, some good, strong, passionate debate is good, and it does make a thread rather interesting. I've passionately debated with many on here, about various things. Though I may disagree with what they're saying, it really takes away from the enjoyment of posting, if people start tossing in veiled insults, rude comments, etc.

Ex: Sorry, I disagree with you, and we may be at a point where we'll have to just agree to disagree. I'm set in my views, you in yours.

or...

You know what....you've got your head shoved so far up your *** its not even funny. The stuff that you're saying right now is so dumb. Why dont you get a clue!

Which one is the better route to take? I'd say option 1.

Don't get me wrong, I agree with you that option 1 is better, but as an adult I can skip over option 2 if people choose to use it ;-)

I'd rather than than quiet threads and everyone falling over themselves to be polite and responses being less than open.

It's your call at the end of the day, I'm just saying it's a risk that it would go too far the other way if mods have a heavy hand - and personally I'd hate to see this forum (the TKD section of it) die off..

 

[dancingalone]

Give the offenders penalty points if necessary and move on. I think the idea of moderating a handful of people so that their posts stay in a queue until released seems silly.

As for the locked thread about Disabled people and black belts, can a moderator reopen it as soon as the judicial review is over? I think it was a good, interesting thread and it's a shame that discussion has been shut off.

 

[Cyriacus]

Passionate debate, yes. Repeatedly insulting people, no.

Pax,

Chris

Yep.

Exactly right Andy, I actually think its a good thing that we have people who are genuinely passionate about their beliefs, irrespective of what they are. There are people here I dont agree with, but I dont hold it against them personally, we just have different views on tkd which leads to good healthy debate. There are definetly people here who dont agree but very rarely, if ever, do people cross the line from what Ive seen (or maybe Im going to the wrong threads).

Yep.

I tend to disagree with some of what Puunui and MasterCole have to say.
But I can also see plenty I do agree with, and recognize the presence of reasoning and enough experience to warrant having those opinions, so its cool.
Its Good, in fact.

Plus, in debating some things, You have a chance to put a point across. The important thing is that both sides are prepared to possibly have to agree with the other, or agree to disagree, even if they dont like what theyre agreeing with. Its at that point that often, insults start flying. Unfortunately.
Which is unfortunate, really.
A good debate, even if youre both right, or both wrong, or ones right and ones wrong, can lead to learning more about the topic at hand, regardless. Or just learning more about your own opinion of it. Or you might learn something completely new.
Thats the beauty of a debate.
Even if the debate is You defending a viewpoint. Because if You succeed, thats all the more reason to possess it.

And so forth.

What needs to be moderated is when a debate turns into repetition of the same statements in different wording, essentially trying to hammer a view into the other person. Or criticizing them for not outright agreeing with You.

 

[Bob Hubbard]

The problem is finding a balance between allowing people to work things out as adults, and needing to burp colicky babies who are prone to projectile vomiting and feces slinging.
Confuse the 2, you kill the forum.
Ignore the 2nd, you kill the forum.
The babies run topics into the dirt, and drive off all 'other' views.

When there's a perception that the babies are running the playpen, we get numerous reports with comments like "I know you arent going to do anything about this....."

I don't want to do heavy moderation.
It's a lot of work.
It slows down discussions.
It's -A LOT- of work.
It can kill discussions.
Did I say we don't want to do heavy moderation?

So, no 'putting anything into a delayed review queue. Instead we've decided to focus a harder look at the people we see often in those same reports.
No, it's probably not fair to run their reported posts through a .000001 micron filter.
No, it's probably not fair to do the same to their reporters posts.
But, we'll go by 'letter of the law' and infract accordingly, and in a couple of weeks the water is cleaner.
My staff's under instructions to go right to point infractions for the 'usual names', as all of them have had the requisite 62 chances and a donut already.

Because it's the same couple of people going round and round nipping and barking and sniping and taking little shots at each other who play little games that are causing all the headaches, and we're tired of it.

Please, discuss what you want....but do it without the little digs. Unless you're 12. Then get off the site, we have rules against pre-teens on here.

Danke.

 

[shesulsa]

I stand firm that there are people who get off just watching productive conversation get shut down as we've seen happen to some potentially good threads here. It's a game. There is the type of person who really doesn't see what they're doing is blatantly against the rules so it becomes regular vernacular for those people. I think that's a double-edged sword in that it's good to look at intent ... but it's important to look at the effect of such ignorance. If people are being driven away from your business ... ya gotta fix the problem. Toxic relationships aren't like wine - they need to be thrown out with the vinegar.

 

[jks9199]

I stand firm that there are people who get off just watching productive conversation get shut down as we've seen happen to some potentially good threads here. It's a game. There is the type of person who really doesn't see what they're doing is blatantly against the rules so it becomes regular vernacular for those people. I think that's a double-edged sword in that it's good to look at intent ... but it's important to look at the effect of such ignorance. If people are being driven away from your business ... ya gotta fix the problem. Toxic relationships aren't like wine - they need to be thrown out with the vinegar.

I agree; there are people out there who get a sense of power or control by causing threads to close. They're often folks who are careful enough to toe the line -- almost exactly. They'll run their toes right up to the line, smudge it, but argue they never crossed it. And they didn't -- in any one post. But, as a whole? Hell, yeah.

What can be really frustrating is when the problem children also have something valuable to contribute. If they'd just drop the grade school crap...