MMA vs Kung Fu Day 2 Sparring Results

[JowGaWolf]

Day 2 of sparring is done. Now I get a week of healing time. Here's the recap.

I tried the "short jump technique" and had mix results. It was difficult for me to execute it in a high stance. To be honest it's difficult to execute anything in a high stance. I knew what I was walking into and it's I'm just amazed that so many Kung Fu practioners even want to stand that tall with a grappler. But anyway, I tried the one technique that I thought would be able to drop enough weight onto my sparring partner. I had about 6 failures and 1 successful application (kind of), which isn't that bad for doing something for the first time.

1. Timing has to be spot on. There's no room for imperfection in that high stance.
2. The 6 failures either forced me to go to the ground. I'm not a grappler at this point, so that was bad news.
3. The 1 successful application did what I expected but I couldn't take advantage of it because of the tall stance. When I did the little jump, my sparring partner's grip released causing my leg to be free from the grab not not free from the grab. He was able grab my leg and gain control. Tall stances means that feet are close together and that my ability to retreat is greatly reduce.
4. I ate a lot of overhand rights. I was however able to land a technique on him using the long fist punches, but I'm still not really throwing them. Not until he gets better at defending them.
5. My kicks were landing good. He was originally brushing off my kicks without understanding the actual danger. That changed when I landed a few solid kicks that made him acknowledge the effectiveness of them. He says now he respects them a little more.

Overall it was a good night for the techniques that I already knew, but a rough night for the new stuff I tried. Oh I also went for a ride on a hip toss. I was hoping to play around the high stance a little more but tonight was the last time for me to mess with that. Next stop for me will be mid level stances. I'm giving up the high stances for now.I may or may not come back to it at a later day.

I just can't understand why so many of the Kung Fu people want to stand so tall. They practice low stances every week, but when it comes to fighting some of them (not all) stand tall and just make every thing so difficult. Now I'll get to take my week of healing before getting busy with the mid level stance. I forgot to take video this time. sorry about that.

 

[Alan0354]

Still no video?

 

[JowGaWolf]

Still no video?

I'll definitely get video this next round. I plan on getting some video during my next sparring session because I'll be sparring in my normal fighting stance height. No more high stance for me. I'm waiting for a pair of wrestling shoes to be shipped.

 

[Jared Traveler]

Day 2 of sparring is done. Now I get a week of healing time. Here's the recap.

I tried the "short jump technique" and had mix results. It was difficult for me to execute it in a high stance. To be honest it's difficult to execute anything in a high stance. I knew what I was walking into and it's I'm just amazed that so many Kung Fu practioners even want to stand that tall with a grappler. But anyway, I tried the one technique that I thought would be able to drop enough weight onto my sparring partner. I had about 6 failures and 1 successful application (kind of), which isn't that bad for doing something for the first time.

1. Timing has to be spot on. There's no room for imperfection in that high stance.
2. The 6 failures either forced me to go to the ground. I'm not a grappler at this point, so that was bad news.
3. The 1 successful application did what I expected but I couldn't take advantage of it because of the tall stance. When I did the little jump, my sparring partner's grip released causing my leg to be free from the grab not not free from the grab. He was able grab my leg and gain control. Tall stances means that feet are close together and that my ability to retreat is greatly reduce.
4. I ate a lot of overhand rights. I was however able to land a technique on him using the long fist punches, but I'm still not really throwing them. Not until he gets better at defending them.
5. My kicks were landing good. He was originally brushing off my kicks without understanding the actual danger. That changed when I landed a few solid kicks that made him acknowledge the effectiveness of them. He says now he respects them a little more.

Overall it was a good night for the techniques that I already knew, but a rough night for the new stuff I tried. Oh I also went for a ride on a hip toss. I was hoping to play around the high stance a little more but tonight was the last time for me to mess with that. Next stop for me will be mid level stances. I'm giving up the high stances for now.I may or may not come back to it at a later day.

I just can't understand why so many of the Kung Fu people want to stand so tall. They practice low stances every week, but when it comes to fighting some of them (not all) stand tall and just make every thing so difficult. Now I'll get to take my week of healing before getting busy with the mid level stance. I forgot to take video this time. sorry about that.

It seems like his wrestling is good. Why not learn wrestling and how to defend against it? Am miss reading all of this? It sounds like you are trying to come up with ideas, instead of study what has proven to work in wrestling defense?

Don't take that wrong, I'm just genuinely trying to understand your situation.

 

[JowGaWolf]

Why not learn wrestling and how to defend against it? Am miss reading all of this? It sounds like you are trying to come up with ideas, instead of study what has proven to work in wrestling defense?

My wrestling defense starts at a medium height stance level. This is where I normally train and spar. Someone told me I should learn how to fight in a high stance so being open minded, I gave it a try. I don't like it. I wouldn't recommendit unless person wants to experiencefirst handthe problemsit will bring them. I tried the Wing Chun stance as well. I didn't like that either.

 

[JowGaWolf]

Don't take that wrong, I'm just genuinely trying to understand your situation.

I can only use Jow Ga kung fu and Shuai Jiao. My goal is to be a good representation of Jow Ga Kung Fu. If I'm doing BJJ then it means I'm not representing Jow Ga. I can't learn Jow Ga if I'm doing BJJ. Shuai Jiao is the exception because I believe that it is the grappling component of kung fu. I don't have anything against BJJ. it's just that I can only be good with Jow Ga by using Jow Ga.

 

[Yokozuna514]

I can only use Jow Ga kung fu and Shuai Jiao. My goal is to be a good representation of Jow Ga Kung Fu. If I'm doing BJJ then it means I'm not representing Jow Ga. I can't learn Jow Ga if I'm doing BJJ. Shuai Jiao is the exception because I believe that it is the grappling component of kung fu. I don't have anything against BJJ. it's just that I can only be good with Jow Ga by using Jow Ga.

I can appreciate what you are looking to do here. One of the things I thought I would comment on (you may have already discussed this or mentioned it before) is have you considered what your height and weight is when selecting the techniques you are going to use in this experiment. For example, you mentioned that you tried a high stance but didn't find much success with it. Have you considered that this stance may not be suitable to be used on this particular opponent considering you are smaller than he is comparatively. A higher stance may be more effective if you were perhaps taller and had a longer reach to keep your opponent at bay.

I know you mentioned that you would be switching to a lower stance in the future. Are their any other adjustments you can make that will allow you to use your particular body mechanics to greater effect. Are there any techniques, tactics or strategies you can use against this particular opponent to unlock his weakness ? Everyone has a weakness but not everyone has the same key to unlock it.

 

[JowGaWolf]

have you considered what your height and weight is when selecting the techniques you are going to use in this experiment. For example, you mentioned that you tried a high stance but didn't find much success with it.

Yes. When I was teaching the sparring classes I lean that done techniques have Specific height requirements. Standing too high or too low can break a technique or cause a technique to lose optimum positioning making it difficult it less powerful. It could be the difference between throwing someone and being thrown.

Size wise we are the same height. I'm heavier but he stronger.

 

[Yokozuna514]

Yes. When I was teaching the sparring classes I lean that done techniques have Specific height requirements. Standing too high or too low can break a technique or cause a technique to lose optimum positioning making it difficult it less powerful. It could be the difference between throwing someone and being thrown.

Size wise we are the same height. I'm heavier but he stronger.

Ok fair enough. Have you considered tactics and strategies that will help you gain the upper hand ?

I thought I read somewhere that there was a slight difference in size but if you are close than conditioning will be the next factor to swing the tide. If you have more gas, you can do a lot more.

 

[Flying Crane]

My wrestling defense starts at a medium height stance level. This is where I normally train and spar. Someone told me I should learn how to fight in a high stance so being open minded, I gave it a try. I don't like it. I wouldn't recommendit unless person wants to experiencefirst handthe problemsit will bring them. I tried the Wing Chun stance as well. I didn't like that either.

From my way of seeing it, you fight according to the methodology in which you trained. That can actually mean different things and allows room for lots of interpretation and creativity, it in no way locks you into an inflexible or mandatory approach to combat.

But if your understanding of your methodology does not include fighting from a high stance, why would you waste time and energy on trying to do it with this mma guy? And why would you try using a stance from wing Chun, if that is not what you trained? Wing Chun stances are designed to function within the wing Chun approach to training and combat, which is different from jow ga. I don’t understand why you would use this arrangement with the mma guy to experiment with things that you do not train, or go against your own fundamental understanding of how to approach things.

 

[Alan0354]

It seems like his wrestling is good. Why not learn wrestling and how to defend against it? Am miss reading all of this? It sounds like you are trying to come up with ideas, instead of study what has proven to work in wrestling defense?

Don't take that wrong, I'm just genuinely trying to understand your situation.

I think it's best to learn what works rather than insisting on come up with a way within your own style to fight against it. That's what MMA is all about. They don't resist new ideas, they just welcome new ideas and incorporates into the MMA. They don't worry about pride. I think pride is the biggest road block.

Funny today when I was driving out, I notice a Ralph Gracie BJJ school close to where I live, like 1mile. I was so tempted to stop and watch. I kept telling myself no, I am too old and injured already, it's not a good idea. But it's tempting. It would be so nice to learn BJJ, all the take down defense and the ground game that I never have a chance to learn. that I know I am chopped meat when facing them. I am not going to make excuses that I am old and all that, it just is.

 

[JowGaWolf]

Ok fair enough. Have you considered tactics and strategies that will help you gain the upper hand ?

I thought I read somewhere that there was a slight difference in size but if you are close than conditioning will be the next factor to swing the tide. If you have more gas, you can do a lot more.

Yep. I've increased my conditioning and it seems he is increasing his as well. I see him lifting weights more, I've been doing more cardio and stuff that makes me tired. Trying to get to a point where I don't get tired. I've been working on leg endurance as well since I've noticed a decline in some of the leg positions I used to be strong in.

But if your understanding of your methodology does not include fighting from a high stance, why would you waste time and energy on trying to do it with this mma guy?

A Jow Ga teacher first introduced the idea of fighting in higher stance. So me being open minded I decided to explore. I spar to learn and not to win and some times I will put myself in a position to see what happens next. How will my sparring partner respond. How will I respond. My sparring partner and I are similar. Some of the attacks he did with me was to see how I respond. He's trying to get a feel for me as well. He has seen me train on my own, so I can only assume he knows I can do more than what I have shown. Same with him. I've seen him train and I know his skill set is deeper than what he has shown. If I was trying to win in sparring or out do him then it would be a waste of time.

Since I'm exploring things in a high stance, the best that I can do is pay attention and learn as I go. For example, my sparring partner leaves himself open for my front and side kicks. He's not good with seeing strikes that rise from the bottom. I've been crescent kicking and half moon kicking the mess out of his gloves all this time. He hasn't quite figured out what to do with those kicks yet. It wasn't until he had a heavy kick to his ribs did he decide to try to grab my front kicks. Not that he's doing that I can do some other nice tricks for when he grabs.
He's right handed but he's comfortable with fighting against a South Paw. He uses a squared stance so foot hooks are difficult. Always have to practice analyzing on the fly. I haven't gotten a good look at his foot work yet because of sparring in a high stance. Once I lower my stance the footwork will start to become more visible and I'll be able to time his steps.

And why would you try using a stance from wing Chun, if that is not what you trained? Wing Chun stances are designed to function within the wing Chun approach to training and combat, which is different from Jow Aa. I don’t understand why you would use this arrangement with the mma guy to experiment with things that you do not train, or go against your own fundamental understanding of how to approach things.

When I'm in a high stance my front kick tends to have foot placement that is more similar to Wing Chun front kick. It's not that I'm trying to kick like Wing Chun, it's just physics and when my stance is high, my feet are closer together, so I placed my feet to see if I could pick up a glimpse of something. Again, because I have nothing to lose. I can afford to do things like this, make mistakes, and not pay a price for it. The only glimpse that I caught was that a person can only retreat as far has their rear leg.

As far as me going against my fundamental understanding of how to approach things. That started weeks ago when I decided to spar in a high stance which for the longest have said no to. For me the high stance will be nothing more than me taking a break at a distance that my opponent can't easily close.

 

[JowGaWolf]

I think it's best to learn what works rather than insisting on come up with a way within your own style to fight against it.

The down side to this approach is that you don't learn anything about your own system. There are things in Jow Ga that I didn't think would work only to find out that I misunderstood it. It wasn't until I had a better understanding of the context in which to use the technique, that it worked. I think you have experienced some of the same thing experience when you thought something was useless but after it was explained to you better you learned that it was more useful than you originally thought it would be.

There are things that I do in Jow Ga kung fu that wasn't taught to me. The only thing I had were the basics and I took a deeper look and tried to understand more about what I was doing and discovering where the limits were. You can hear the Sifu talk about how my sweeps are different from what we practiced and taught in school. The long fist combo used against the first guy is of my own design. It is not taught in the schools.

You will also see me use some of the same techniques that you referred to as MMA footwork.

I think I was around 185 pounds. I definitely moved faster. I think this was my first year in the school
The first guy was an amateur boxer. The second guy trained in Shuai Jiao before coming to the Jow Ga school. The third guy was just a brawler. There's no way I would have been able to do any of this if I didn't dig deeper within my own style. You will also see me use some of the same techniques that you referred to as MMA footwork.

The laughter in the video is because I went ole skool and landed a double punch. Someone was talking crap so I sent it lol.

 

[JowGaWolf]

I was so tempted to stop and watch. I kept telling myself no, I am too old and injured already, it's not a good idea. But it's tempting. It would be so nice to learn BJJ, all the take down defense and the ground game that I never have a chance to learn.

Go watch and sign up if you like it.

I am not going to make excuses that I am old and all that, it just is.

If your doctor gives you the green light then take it. Just be old doing BJJ.

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

I spar to learn and not to win and some times I will put myself in a position to see what happens next.

In sparring, some people just

1. looks for opening,
2. creates opening,

he then attacks that opening.

IMO, 1 < 2.

If you use plan 2, you will force your opponent to fight the way that you want to fight.

For example, if your opponent attacks you, you can move back and let him to strike into the thin air. You will then jump back in and attack.

What do you think about this sparring strategy?

 

[JowGaWolf]

For example, if your opponent attacks you, you can move back and let him to strike into the thin air. You will then jump back in and attack.

What do you think about this sparring strategy?

I've used it before with success which is why I train to punch while moving backwards. For some people, move forward and punch don't happen at the same time, which gives me the opportunity to punch then when they move forward.

 

[dunc]

Love this thread and how you're putting yourself out of the comfort zone

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

I've used it before with success which is why I train to punch while moving backwards. For some people, move forward and punch don't happen at the same time, which gives me the opportunity to punch then when they move forward.

I like to train my guys to move forward. As long as you can keep your opponent busy, you will find opportunity.

 

[Buka]

I teach my guys to move in every direction. Fighters that always move forward try to keep you off your stance, but to me, they're like food delivery. Bless their hearts.

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

I teach my guys to move in every direction. Fighters that always move forward try to keep you off your stance, but to me, they're like food delivery. Bless their hearts.

IMO, to run your opponent down is the highest level of MA skill.