How my understanding stances can makes me a better fighter.

[drop bear]

You do understand that many Bjj takedowns are specifically designed to bring down people in traditional MA stances right?

It's not like there's some glorious history of Kung Fu and Karate guys actively stopping grappling takedowns with deep stances. In fact, history shows the exact opposite.

A strong stance opens you up for the single leg. So you go double they stance up then go single and they fall over.

Double to single.

 

[JowGaWolf]

Observation #5 Using stances to make it more difficult for my opponent to hit me in the face. Keep in mind that this is a lower side horse stance. There are 2 ways that use manage attack ranges.

• Move in and out of range
• Use the stance to lengthen or shorten the attack range.

I use wide stances to decreases my opponent's ability to hit me in the face. I use narrow stance to draw my opponent in. This has more to do with sparring and competitive fighting than for use a street fight. It still holds true in a street fight and it can be used in a street fight but, a street fight or self-defense application of this would be different. For now I'll just go over how I use it in sparring.

In sparring, some fighters like to test their range by throwing out a weak jab. When I see this, I'll take a higher stance for the purpose of throwing off his calculations. Even if he doesn't throw out a test punch, I may still take a higher stance and let him land a few punches on my guard. Once he looks as if he's satisfied with the distance, I will then move into a wider stance than the one I had when he started measuring his punching range. There are a couple of benefits for me. Keep in mind

1. A lower stance increases the distance he has to cover in order to punch my face by moving my center line away from him.
   
2. A lower stance lowers my height which also affects the distance that he has to cover to hit my face. A 5 to 6 inch change in height increases the distance about an inch. A medium stance will give me about a foot worth of additional distance. A wide stance which is lower will give me almost 2 feet of distance. This distance will vary with height.
3. A lower stance puts my leg in the way of my opponents forward movement. In order for my opponent to move forward he will have to move to either side of my leg which gives me the opportunity to interfere with my opponents lead leg.
4. A lower stance also puts me under my opponent's guard and places me in a good position to kick as my opponent moves forward.

The downside of this is that moving in and out of various stance heights really works the legs, so if you don't have a strong stance then this will be difficult to do for any extended period. A person will a weak stance will be forced to maintain an almost constant high and rely totally on head movement and fast foot work. If you have the leg endurance and strength then you'll be able to avoid a lot of punches and quickly counter wither with a punch or a kick.

 

[JowGaWolf]

A strong stance opens you up for the single leg. So you go double they stance up then go single and they fall over.

Double to single.

I would like to go against that type of take down. Looks like it would be fun to test out not just my stance but my ability to redirect the person.

 

[drop bear]

I would like to go against that type of take down. Looks like it would be fun to test out not just my stance but my ability to redirect the person.

Honestly you should always be doing that takedown. You don't just do a double leg and then stop.

 

[JowGaWolf]

The term "strong stance" can mean "sitting duck". The stronger your stance is, the harder for you to change

Totally agree. There's a time and place for the "sitting duck" I tend to do it mostly when going against grapplers that try to destroy my root. Out of all of the fighting systems I spar with. Grapplers really make me work my legs.

 

[lklawson]

And you wonder why most street fights go to the ground.

We don't know if most "street fights" do or do not.

The 90% Myth Deconstructed

Peace favor your sword,
Kirk

 

[lklawson]

That's the danger of being on the ground, other people can interfere.

They can't interfere from standing or the clinch?

Peace favor your sword,
Kirk

 

[lklawson]

Stances are changed and adapted according to conditions such as terrain, weather, and techniques anticipated to be used.

Not just stances. Footwork, body movement, heck, massive parts of the entire system are dramatically affected by the physical environment in which a martial art developed.

Soft leather footwear of a Longhunter worn on muddy or dry, leafy, or gravely ground as he's fighting with a BP rifle, tomahawk, and longknife, yield vastly different movement, body positioning, footwork, and a fighting style from that of a duelist fighting a single opponent with a dueling saber, wearing hard soled leather shoes, in a salle. Civilian knife fighting systems of 1400 Germany tended to favor long, straight bladed, pointed knives partly because Europe was in the middle of "The Little Ice Age" and people were wearing more cloths. Conversely, civilian knife fighting systems in the tropical Philippines during 1800 embraced shorter slashing weapons to a much greater degree.

If you really want to learn how to fight in the system you're learning, train in the clothing they wore and on the terrain they fought on. At the very least, try to wear the same footwear.

If you want to train for "self defense in the street" you'd better spend at least some time training in street cloths. Training "in the street" some might not be a bad idea either.

Peace favor your sword,
Kirk

 

[lklawson]

It's just never smart to go to the ground with a bunch of people around you.

It's rarely a "good idea" to try to fight, standing, clinched, knees, or rolling, when you're outnumbered. Being outnumbered is what's known as "Disparity of Force." But sometimes you don't have any choice.

Peace favor your sword,
Kirk

 

[lklawson]

It doesn't matter what they were designed for. If you are on the ground then it makes it easy for other people to interfere and even join in the fight.

Which is true regardless of whether or not the fight has gone to newaza.

Peace favor your sword,
Kirk

 

[lklawson]

In sparring, some fighters like to test their range by throwing out a weak jab

In Bowie Knife sparring, and sometimes old school pugilism, I've had great success by subtly changing the range. Most people will, quite reasonably, focus on the weapon or the extended arm. I sometimes start with "feelers" with my arms extended, well away from my body, and as the engagement progresses, I'll bend them a little bit more and more until my hands are comparatively close to my body. This tricks my opponent into believing that they know what my distance ("measure") is, but I've changed it on them. Then I make an attack and can hit. Of course they have an equally increased chance of hitting me but they don't realize it and still believe that I'm just out of range, or at the very edge of range. It's fun doing it but I always end up explaining the trick to my students and losing that trick.

Peace favor your sword,
Kirk

 

[Bill Mattocks]

Not just stances. Footwork, body movement, heck, massive parts of the entire system are dramatically affected by the physical environment in which a martial art developed.

Soft leather footwear of a Longhunter worn on muddy or dry, leafy, or gravely ground as he's fighting with a BP rifle, tomahawk, and longknife, yield vastly different movement, body positioning, footwork, and a fighting style from that of a duelist fighting a single opponent with a dueling saber, wearing hard soled leather shoes, in a salle. Civilian knife fighting systems of 1400 Germany tended to favor long, straight bladed, pointed knives partly because Europe was in the middle of "The Little Ice Age" and people were wearing more cloths. Conversely, civilian knife fighting systems in the tropical Philippines during 1800 embraced shorter slashing weapons to a much greater degree.

If you really want to learn how to fight in the system you're learning, train in the clothing they wore and on the terrain they fought on. At the very least, try to wear the same footwear.

If you want to train for "self defense in the street" you'd better spend at least some time training in street cloths. Training "in the street" some might not be a bad idea either.

Peace favor your sword,
Kirk

Wasn't what I meant, exactly, but I don't disagree with the points you made.

 

[mograph]

It's rarely a "good idea" to try to fight, standing, clinched, knees, or rolling, when you're outnumbered. Being outnumbered is what's known as "Disparity of Force." But sometimes you don't have any choice.

Just wondering -- if you were outnumbered, and couldn't see an immediate escape route, would it be best to stay on your feet, but keep moving, dodging, parrying until you could create an escape route? (I'm imagining aikido here, I suppose.)

 

[kuniggety]

It's rarely a "good idea" to try to fight, standing, clinched, knees, or rolling, when you're outnumbered. Being outnumbered is what's known as "Disparity of Force." But sometimes you don't have any choice.

Peace favor your sword,
Kirk

Agreed. It was a comparison vs staying on the feet. I am at a point in my training where I prefer grappling over striking (not the case a couple of years ago) but I can't defend/run away as well if I'm on the ground.

 

[JowGaWolf]

They can't interfere from standing or the clinch?

Peace favor your sword,
Kirk

Yes, they can interfere, but standing gives me the mobility that is required to address multiple targets. The strong stance and footing is what helps to keep me off the ground. The better those 2 things are the less likely I'll become a human kicking bag.

 

[JowGaWolf]

Just wondering -- if you were outnumbered, and couldn't see an immediate escape route, would it be best to stay on your feet, but keep moving, dodging, parrying until you could create an escape route? (I'm imagining aikido here, I suppose.)

I would definitely stay on my feet and keep moving. Because I train my stances and foot work. I would make an effort to put one of my attackers on the ground with a sweep or a low kick to the leg. I would parry and attack the limbs. If I can injure their arm or legs then it'll make everything else that much easier. The average person doesn't train stances and will often put their leg in harms way so I want to take advantage of that.

 

[JowGaWolf]

Stance and motion drills for wrestling. I don't use them but since we have mention grappling I though I would be good to show a few and relate it to my stance training

I try to become familiar with the stances that other fighting systems use so that I can understand what I'm seeing. It's really important that I understand how to use my stance against different stances. Sometimes my best option is to be quick with getting in and out of a stance while other times, it's better to stay rooted in a stance.. My theory is that the really low stances in Kung Fu help prevent someone from getting under you to uproot you. It's similar to a low wrestling stance but it allows you to punch and strike more effectively while in that stance. The low stance also sinks the waist out of range for any take downs that are focused on the waist. Wrestling, BJJ, and Judo stance push the waist away from the opponent as well which limits the options of take down offensives.

 

[Don Johnson]

What I've always been told is never get in a stance until it's on.

If you are standing, you are in a stance. The question is how useful is it. From the stance(s) you choose, how smoothly can you quickly and easily move, strike, block, counter, transition, and flow. If you aren't in a useful stance before it's on, you are choosing to begin at a disadvantage.

 

[drop bear]

Just wondering -- if you were outnumbered, and couldn't see an immediate escape route, would it be best to stay on your feet, but keep moving, dodging, parrying until you could create an escape route? (I'm imagining aikido here, I suppose.)

You can't be rendered still at all. Generally you have to fight through the attack and out the other side.

Which is still low percentage.

 

[Don Johnson]

We don't know if most "street fights" do or do not.

The 90% Myth Deconstructed

Peace favor your sword,
Kirk

And 94% of statistics are made up That is why is said "most." My reference actually comes from a friend of mine who is one of the top criminal investigators in the country.