MMA vs Boxing vs Kung Fu vs My Rambling

[Oily Dragon]

Good video. Looks like San Shou guys have been studying Muay Thai. With that said, letting go and releasing it a beginner technique. There are many variations including yanking first(to further disrupt the balance) before letting go and striking. Also several sweeps are taught after grabbing and retaining the leg.

it goes both ways. Chinese and Thai kickboxing arts are literally tied at the hip for over a thousand years. Talk about Kung Fu cousins.

I think MT is just a little more striking, and San Shou a little more throwing oriented, based on the scoring.

In some San Shou matches, you get bonus points for throwing your opponent into a moat. In MT, it's a decisive KO.

 

[Jared Traveler]

it goes both ways. Chinese and Thai kickboxing arts are literally tied at the hip for over a thousand years. Talk about Kung Fu cousins.

I think MT is just a little more striking, and San Shou a little more throwing oriented, based on the scoring.

In some San Shou matches, you get bonus points for throwing your opponent into a moat. In MT, it's a decisive KO.

It's my understanding that the Thai's intentionally crafted the rules of Muay Thai to make sure it didn't look like Judo. Because the Japanese invaded and occupied Thailand the Thais has some reasons to exclude judo, even though their art was and still is influenced by judo.

 

[Jared Traveler]

Here is a good example. I use the catch and release version, because it is the most basic.

 

[Oily Dragon]

It's my understanding that the Thai's intentionally crafted the rules of Muay Thai to make sure it didn't look like Judo. Because the Japanese invaded and occupied Thailand the Thais has some reasons to exclude judo, even though their art was and still is influenced by judo.

There no wrapping your fists with hemp in Judo.

 

[Jared Traveler]

There no wrapping your fists with hemp in Judo.

I have a black belt in judo, I can confirm this is true.

 

[JowGaWolf]

It's my understanding that the Thai's intentionally crafted the rules of Muay Thai to make sure it didn't look like Judo. Because the Japanese invaded and occupied Thailand the Thais has some reasons to exclude judo, even though their art was and still is influenced by judo.

I thought Muay Thai boxing came from Muay Boran and that Muay Thai boxing was created because the original fighting was too brutal so Muay Thai boxing became the sport while Muay Boran remained the "killing art" as it contains weapon techniques. MMA took a similar path. Sports that are too brutal don't last long. It wears the fighters down quickly and fighters begin to understand that the victories are not worth the injuries.

 

[Jared Traveler]

I thought Muay Thai boxing came from Muay Boran and that Muay Thai boxing was created because the original fighting was too brutal so Muay Thai boxing became the sport while Muay Boran remained the "killing art" as it contains weapon techniques. MMA took a similar path. Sports that are too brutal don't last long. It wears the fighters down quickly and fighters begin to understand that the victories are not worth the injuries.

Muay Thai has many influences, including western boxing. Hints the hand techniques, competition ring and weight classes.

 

[JowGaWolf]

Muay Thai has many influences, including western boxing. Hints the hand techniques, competition ring and weight classes.

Maybe but there is only going to be a limited way to throw a straight punch , jab, and upper cut. Look at ancient Greek and Egyptian art that depicts fighting sports. But I do agree with the big boxing gloves and ring. My guess is that those were a better design and worked well for containing a fight.to a small area. Modern gloves vs ancient gloves? I'll take modern gloves. I would hate to get hit with a hand wrapped in cord.

 

[Jared Traveler]

Maybe but there is only going to be a limited way to throw a straight punch , jab, and upper cut. Look at ancient Greek and Egyptian art that depicts fighting sports. But I do agree with the big boxing gloves and ring. My guess is that those were a better design and worked well for containing a fight.to a small area. Modern gloves vs ancient gloves? I'll take modern gloves. I would hate to get hit with a hand wrapped in cord.

I trained a little Lethiwe when I was in Burma. It's hard to know if they copy the Thais now, or how much the Thais copied them. But I found their skill much more basic than my training in Thailand. Sometimes to the point of not understanding certain concepts very well.

 

[Oily Dragon]

I trained a little Lethiwe when I was in Burma. It's hard to know if they copy the Thais now, or how much the Thais copied them. But I found their skill much more basic than my training in Thailand. Sometimes to the point of not understanding certain concepts very well.

Lethwei is just more brutal, especially with head attacks allowed. It takes a rare person to take part in that.

Thai boxing civilized Siamese martial arts the same way Queensbury civilized European pugilism.

And yeah it's all the same muck. Thais, Burmese, Chinese, British have been beating each other up since they started trading tea.

 

[JowGaWolf]

I would like to see the medical understanding of injuries during the early brutal periods as the fighting was transitioning into a sport. I wonder how concussions were perceived. Sometimes when I hear the stories about someone dying 3 days later, or going home and dying, I think "Was it a concussion and not a vital point attacked with chi."

 

[drop bear]

Here is a good example. I use the catch and release version, because it is the most basic.

You also want to be careful dumping people to hard in sparring. Which is also why this is a good option.

 

[Jared Traveler]

You also want to be careful dumping people to hard in sparring. Which is also why this is a good option.

This method of catch and release is also useful when your opponent is up against the ropes and you aren't able to manuever much.

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

Here is a good example. I use the catch and release version, because it is the most basic.

Why do you want to release your opponent's kicking leg after you have caught it? If you hook his rooting leg, or just lift his leg over your shoulder, he will be down.

 

[Jared Traveler]

Why do you want to release your opponent's kicking leg after you have caught it?

If you hook his rooting leg, he will be down.

Why would you want to release your opponents kicking leg after you have caught it? This is a fantastic question that I asked myself a lot when I started Muay Thai. Coming from a Judo/Sambo background, it didn't make sense to me either. But perhaps I have some insight on that now.

First this is a beginner technique. In the beginning you may not have great control, or have great sweeps. Releasing the kick and striking is a simple counter that does not require the skill it takes to maintain control and sweep.

Second a big part of Muay Thai is disturbing your opponents balance, so you land solid strikes while he is in a position of disadvantage. This is a simple, great way to do it.

Third, the fact that you don't have a strong preference between striking vs clinching is part of what makes you so dangerous. If done correctly a Muay Thai practitioner can strike with no grip, or clinch and throw. And not have a strong preference either way. Verses a grappler who has to maintain his control in order to make his game work.

These are a few of the reasons I can think of.

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

Why would you want to release your opponents kicking leg after you have caught it? This is a fantastic question that I asked myself a lot when I started Muay Thai. Coming from a Judo/Sambo background, it didn't make sense to me either. But perhaps I have some insight on that now.

First this is a beginner technique. In the beginning you may not have great control, or have great sweeps. Releasing the kick and striking is a simple counter that does not require the skill it takes to maintain control and sweep.

Second a big part of Muay Thai is disturbing your opponents balance, so you land solid strikes while he is in a position of disadvantage. This is a simple, great way to do it.

Third, the fact that you don't have a strong preference between striking vs clinching is part of what makes you so dangerous. If done correctly a Muay Thai practitioner can strike with no grip, or clinch and throw. And not have a strong preference either way. Verses a grappler who has to maintain his control in order to make his game work.

These are a few of the reasons I can think of.

If you have 2 options:

1. Knock your opponent down while he is standing.
2. Take your opponent down and then knock him out while he is on the ground.

Which option do you prefer?

IMO, if you

- hold a match box and punch it, the match box will fly away.
- put a match box on the ground, even a kid can step on and smash it.

 

[Oily Dragon]

I would like to see the medical understanding of injuries during the early brutal periods as the fighting was transitioning into a sport. I wonder how concussions were perceived. Sometimes when I hear the stories about someone dying 3 days later, or going home and dying, I think "Was it a concussion and not a vital point attacked with chi."

Well I can tell you that some Dim Mak/Yuet attacks target the liver, which in TCM is connected to the eyes (meridians are conceptual channels that sort of connect real anatomic relationships based on observation).

Early Chinese physicians figured out damaged or diseased liver caused jaundice, which is often found early as yellow eyes, then yellow skin etc. So if I strike your liver and damage it (before modern trauma medicine), you actually might die a few days later because your body is filling up with bilirubin.

Most old, legit Dim techniques are based around that simple idea, that there are things you can strike (organs, nerves, arteries) that do actually cause slow death. And all modern combat sports tend to not only ban these sorts of techniques, but also account for then in terms of standby EMTs.

Not sure about the long term mortality of someone whose liver or kidney bursts from a strike...never want to find out

 

[Jared Traveler]

If you have 2 options:

1. Knock your opponent down while he is standing.
2. Take your opponent down and then knock him out while he is on the ground.

Which option do you prefer?

IMO, if you

- hold a match box and punch it, the match box will fly away.
- put a match box on the ground, even a kid can step on and smash it.

One aspect to consider is that the Thais work very hard at not getting swept when their leg is grabbed. They are also great at getting their leg back on the ground and getting out. They work at these skills harder than any system I have seen. Sweeping and throwing them is not an easy task.

So if you had to chose between attempting a sweep but failing vs unbalancing them and landing a solid shot, it becomes an attractive option.

 

[drop bear]

Why do you want to release your opponent's kicking leg after you have caught it? If you hook his rooting leg, or just lift his leg over your shoulder, he will be down.

Yeah that. Do that to me and I would kick your head off

 

[Jared Traveler]

It's a skill progression. After learning to safely catch the kick(most important) and release/strike. Then you move to catch/pull, to further unbalance before striking.

And you learn catch and throws:

Then eventually you learn sweeps and dumps.