MMA is the most traditional martial art

[gerardfoy50]

Eh, maybe. Under a completely different ruleset. AND still no connection to modern MMA. Spiritual ancestor? Yes.

my original point was that many guys say MMA is not a real martial art, i wonder if in 500 bc some spartan boxing coach was telling his students those pankration guys aren’t real martial artist. It’s just silly

 

[Monkey Turned Wolf]

my original point was that many guys say MMA is not a real martial art, i wonder if in 500 bc some spartan boxing coach was telling his students those pankration guys aren’t real martial artist. It’s just silly

Was that your point? You didn't say that at all. But yeah, there probably were boxing coaches that told their students pankration guys aren't real martial artists. There were probably pankration coaches that told their students boxers aren't real martial artists.

And yes, it is silly. Back then and today.

And it still doesn't make it a traditional art as your title claims.

 

[Alan0354]

I can understand and agree if people treat MA as ART, that there is no right or wrong, no better or worst. That each art is their own. Like people say you cannot compare different sports like football or basketball, or painting vs music..........

BUT, that's not what a lot of people in MA are saying. They talk about winning and who is more effective, more deadly. They themselves always COMPARE their style to others and criticizing others. THAT THEY THEMSELVES OPEN THE DOOR for comparison. I am not criticizing people practice Lion Dance, but when they start talking about how they use this move to defeat other style, then they put themselves mix in with other MA.

The one good thing about fighting art is, two people walk into the ring, and one walk out. All talk is cheap, it's so easy if people insist theirs are better. I just call it as I see it. When someone stop making excuses, that there's too many rules and all that. Just enter the ring/octagon, USE THEIR OWN STYLE and win some fights, that will change people's mind over night. If you really don't want rules, challenge an MMA on the street, video tape it and post on youtube, you'll be famous. Of cause you have to be good and challenge someone in MMA that is good, not picking on a MMA student.

There are BIG rewards if any style get into the Octagon and win WITH their style(don't fight like MMA and call it their style). Look at Gracie, he whoop the butts of all styles at the very beginning. Look at all the Gracie BJJ schools around, I even have one within 2 miles. Don't anyone want their style to be so famous. It comes with a lot of money also. So any style that think they are better, go win a few fights on tv, the reward is big. One butt kicking speaks a 1000 words.

 

[Monkey Turned Wolf]

I can understand and agree if people treat MA as ART, that there is no right or wrong, no better or worst. That each art is their own. Like people say you cannot compare different sports like football or basketball, or painting vs music..........

BUT, that's not what a lot of people in MA are saying. They talk about winning and who is more effective, more deadly. They themselves always COMPARE their style to others and criticizing others. THAT THEY THEMSELVES OPEN THE DOOR for comparison. I am not criticizing people practice Lion Dance, but when they start talking about how they use this move to defeat other style, then they put themselves mix in with other MA.

The one good thing about fighting art is, two people walk into the ring, and one walk out. All talk is cheap, it's so easy if people insist theirs are better. I just call it as I see it. When someone stop making excuses, that there's too many rules and all that. Just enter the ring/octagon, USE THEIR OWN STYLE and win some fights, that will change people's mind over night. If you really don't want rules, challenge an MMA on the street, video tape it and post on youtube, you'll be famous. Of cause you have to be good and challenge someone in MMA that is good, not picking on a MMA student.

I don't know if you realize, but you're the one who brings this up 90% of the time, at least on here. I assume it's the same in your discussions out of here. You start discussions (or steer discussions) to compare the other styles to MMA. You're the one who open the door.

 

[gerardfoy50]

Was that your point? You didn't say that at all. But yeah, there probably were boxing coaches that told their students pankration guys aren't real martial artists. There were probably pankration coaches that told their students boxers aren't real martial artists.

And yes, it is silly. Back then and today.

And it still doesn't make it a traditional art as your title claims.

i Disagree I think MMA was always there, just people didn’t talk about it until tv made it popular again, just cause it didn’t have a governing body, licence fees, belt progress etc. but even if we say it started in the 90s how long until it’s tarditiona, do we need belts and gratings first

 

[drop bear]

I'm not suggesting a continue lineage between the ancient greeks and Randy Couture. You said the key to be traditional is a passing along of the style across generations. I'm just wondering what that magic number is. Is it two generation? 10 generations? MMA has to be getting close, right?

I think wrestling might actually have a pretty solid line.

You could probably draw one to randy.

 

[drop bear]

BUT, that's not what a lot of people in MA are saying. They talk about winning and who is more effective, more deadly. They themselves always COMPARE their style to others and criticizing others. THAT THEY THEMSELVES OPEN THE DOOR for comparison. I am not criticizing people practice Lion Dance, but when they start talking about how they use this move to defeat other style, then they put themselves mix in with other MA.

Yeah. most of the time we are discussing that MMA is objectively better.

If you want to compare full time gyms with multiple reputable specialist coaches. To two nights a week in someone's back yard from a guy who nobody knows if he is good or not.

You are going to have to bend some reality to make those comparable.

 

[Oily Dragon]

I think wrestling might actually have a pretty solid line.

You could probably draw one to randy.

There is, and there isn't.

 

[Oily Dragon]

Yeah. most of the time we are discussing that MMA is objectively better.

If you want to compare full time gyms with multiple reputable specialist coaches. To two nights a week in someone's back yard from a guy who nobody knows if he is good or not.

You are going to have to bend some reality to make those comparable.

Depends on the back yard

 

[drop bear]

There is, and there isn't.

I am pretty sure Greco Roman wrestling has a pretty solid history.

 

[drop bear]

Depends on the back yard

Correct. It could be this backyard.

But that is not most backyards.

 

[Oily Dragon]

I am pretty sure Greco Roman wrestling has a pretty solid history.

I think people forget that oral and written traditions predate modern history by a lot, and we should be critical but fair. There's a loooong line of these arts, not always measurable as specific real people (sometimes they're fake like Superman, but hey...if he's cool why not the Five Shaolin Elders?)

Hell the entire "Kung Fu doesn't work" trope. Ok, then explain China's massive war machine.

 

[frank raud]

i Disagree I think MMA was always there, just people didn’t talk about it until tv made it popular again, just cause it didn’t have a governing body, licence fees, belt progress etc. but even if we say it started in the 90s how long until it’s tarditiona, do we need belts and gratings first

Sigh.. did it start in the 90's (hmm, hardly ancient)? MMA as a sport/ martial art was always there? Where? The reason the UFC shook the martial arts world is, so few people had ever seen striking and grappling combined so effectively, and tested in a full contact setting.

"tv made it popular again" When was it popular before TV?

 

[drop bear]

I think people forget that oral and written traditions predate modern history by a lot, and we should be critical but fair. There's a loooong line of these arts, not always measurable as specific real people (sometimes they're fake like Superman, but hey...if he's cool why not the Five Shaolin Elders?)

Hell the entire "Kung Fu doesn't work" trope. Ok, then explain China's massive war machine.

The difference between the great sword and the testudo.(I think it is called that)

 

[frank raud]

I am pretty sure Greco Roman wrestling has a pretty solid history.

Prior to 1848?

 

[Oily Dragon]

The difference between the great sword and the testudo.(I think it is called that)

That was adorable.

It's almost like somebody wrote instructions down.

 

[drop bear]

That was adorable.

It's almost like somebody wrote instructions down.

By the way. Here are some guys who thought kung fu doesn't work.

 

[drop bear]

Prior to 1848?

I haven't looked that hard in to it.

 

[Steve]

my original point was that many guys say MMA is not a real martial art,

I think most people here would agree with you on this.

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

Hell the entire "Kung Fu doesn't work" trope. Ok, then explain China's massive war machine.

The goal of the traditional CMA is to train weapon fight. You start with open hand training. You then move into weapon training.

dagger -> staff -> single edge knife -> double edges sword -> spear -> Guan Dao -> ...

One of my favor jokes is:

A MMA girl challenged a CMA girl. During the challenge day, the MMA girl brought her boxing gloves. The CMA girl brought her Guan Dao.