MMA is the fad right now I believe

[jezr74]

In my limited knowledge of MMA training, don't they focus on a few good moves of each category so to speak. eg. Strikes, Kicks, Grapples, Pins, etc.

I wouldn't call them jack of all trades, but have a focus group of moves that help in the cage. Of course, any style previous trained, or coached to use your strengths can still apply.

Also, agree with others. Not a fad.

 

[Transk53]

Mmm, could have sworn fad was an ice lolly. Oh hang on, no that was a Fab ice lolly, like MMA. Lots of sugar, no stick.

You don't like ice lollies? Outrageous

 

[Tez3]

You may not have experienced the skepticism toward the relevancy of grappling but it exists. Perhaps others will chime in and validate this from their experience too. One particularly hard headed poster here recently went on about how he or a true high level tkd master could easily handle a grappler. There are many who decry the benefits of grappling because it's "not good in the streets" allegedly. Many people still refuse to admit that a well rounded fighter needs some grappling knowedge especially in the needle ridden and broken glass covered streets!

I would say that scepticism is probably confined to the closed world of the internet warrior, I have seen the opposite on here too, that only grappling is the answer to everything. Out in the real world martial artists tend not to bother themselves with other arts and just get on with their own training.

 

[Mephisto]

I would say that scepticism is probably confined to the closed world of the internet warrior, I have seen the opposite on here too, that only grappling is the answer to everything. Out in the real world martial artists tend not to bother themselves with other arts and just get on with their own training.

I train FMA and thus have a lot of friends that do it. Many of them also train RBSD. A lot of them have gotten the wrong idea about grappling. As you mentioned the opposite is true in many cases, I know some very close minded judo guys, but at least they test everything they do. My point was that mma did show that a striker can't rely on his striking ability alone to keep him from getting tied up in the clinch or taken down.

 

[Tez3]

My point was that mma did show that a striker can't rely on his striking ability alone to keep him from getting tied up in the clinch or taken down.

That's one of those yes and no things, I've seen MMA fights that never went to the ground the entire fight and I've seen fights that had no stand up in. I think too many people's idea of MMA is gained just by watching the UFC which to me is a rather limited view. I've seen thousands of fights in over 15 years or so and I'm not sure that MMA proves a lot other than it's very good entertainment. Rather I should say people will use it to prove what they want, in many ways MMA is all things to all people. Grappling people will say as you said, it proves you need grappling, stand up people will say it proves you can fight off a grappler etc etc It does prove all those things of course which sounds like it's in danger of being an oxymoron but to be honest I wish people would see MMA as MMA rather than trying to use it to prove anything. It's full contact competition fighting in which fighters use techniques they find work for them in winning (hopefully!) fights.

 

[Drose427]

Why do you want to learn the grappling art? Sometime you just don't want to meet your fist with your opponent's face. What's the option? You can either control your opponent while standing, or take him down and then control him on the ground. In either case, you can ask him if he is willing to stop bothering you.

Since you can test your grappling skill in safe environment, the grappling art will always be more popular than the striking art. The day that you realize that you can take your opponent down with full force, the day that you will like the grappling art.

Can you

- take your opponent down? You know you can.
- knock your opponent down? You may not too sure about it.

To clarify, Grappling is more on how to stop an opponent on the ground, not just take them down. Nearly all the striking styles teach a variety of Sweeps, locks, etc. But once the opponent is down, the choice is end it with a strike or walk away. Whereas, grappling gives a middle ground of holding them down there.

I personally would rather just end it after the take down, but that brings up all kinds of legal troubles. Legally speaking, many cops will say when he's down you can't touch him unless he tries to attack you again. I roll with with my BJJ and old wrestling buddies, but thats so if I trip or get taken down I can handle myself. Frankly, If someones attacked me, I dont have an issue with a good right cross to his jaw, but I've been in gloves since I was young. Many people are shy about hitting anyone in general!

Another big misconception I've seen among grapplers (not as much here but I assume its because many people here are instructors and know this already), no matter how much you train there will never be a guarantee that you'll land any clinch or lock. I hear the "well thats what they train for 3 hours a day" argument all the time, but its irrelevant. I train for 3 hours in striking and take-downs, but there's no guarantee that I'll land a finisher. It's more about odds.

At the end of the day, it's really about preference. Even with BJJ, if the cop on the scene feels like being a jerk, you can get into some trouble. Especially after the Rear Naked being in the news so much lately

Not all of this was meant for you KF Wang, I'm sure you are far more experienced with grappling than I! I just wanted to break it down a little more for anyone else here

 

[Tez3]

So, off we go on the grappling train again.............................

 

[Transk53]

So, off we go on the grappling train again.............................

Yep. I think the term "stand up" is lost in translation these days.

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

Yep. I think the term "stand up" is lost in translation these days.

IMO, you have to take your opponent down first before you can control him on the ground.

If MA = kick + punch + lock + throw + ground game then

grappling = lock + throw + ground game

The throw is stand up throw, but lock can be both stand up lock and ground game lock.

 

[Tez3]

IMO, you have to take your opponent down first before you can control him on the ground.

If MA = kick + punch + lock + throw + ground game then

grappling = lock + throw + ground game

The throw is stand up throw, but lock can be both stand up lock and ground game lock.

Look, I don't want to cut you off in your prime but the thread is about " MMA, whether it's a fad or not". It's not about grappling and how good or not it is in any situation.

 

[Transk53]

IMO, you have to take your opponent down first before you can control him on the ground.

If MA = kick + punch + lock + throw + ground game then

grappling = lock + throw + ground game

The throw is stand up throw, but lock can be both stand up lock and ground game lock.

You are obsessed with grappling, I am with stand up. Don't get it about always going to ground.

 

[Tez3]

this thread is about MMA, the competition, the style, the promotions like Pride and UFC not whether grappling in the street is better than stand up, not whether you can fight off cops etc etc etc. It's on the MMA section and while I think the OP somewhat late in realising about MMA it is still about MMA......not just grappling.

Mephisto and I were discussing grappling within an MMA fight not grappling for the street or just grappling. While we may appear to disagree we do know what grappling is and what we are talking about!

 

[PhotonGuy]

So whats your point photonguy? You didn't really tell us what you want from this thread, you didn't ask a question. Is MMA a fad? Maybe that should have been in the op. You make some good points. MMA may have silenced the grappling skeptics, of course some still ignore it as a very important range to train because "the streets", where you're always fighting a horde of people on asphalt covered with broken glass. I think mma has raised the bar as to what constitutes a good fighting system. It hasn't eliminated the need for striking specialists and grappling specialists. Mma may be popular right now but I'm not sure it qualifies as a fad. I suppose it means how you define a fad. Typically I think of a fad as something that reaches a peak of popularity than all but vanishes from the public eye. I don't think this will be the case with mma, it's popularity may decline some but I think it will still be quite visible in our culture. Just as boxing was once more popular and the popularity declined, but it has always been a presence and you'll see a boxing match on a a sports bar on any given weekend night. Like mma boxing set a precedent for the art of punching within its ruke set. You'd think with all the systems out there that punch another styke completely separate from boxing could enter the ring and give the boxers a run for their money but it's not the case. Boxing is still relevant and will remain that way.

I was just stating my observations of MMA. It seems to be the big thing in the martial arts world right now. Perhaps fad wasn't the proper term to use, I should've said it was really popular right now. Will that popularity stay where its at? Who knows.

 

[PhotonGuy]

This is the same way Kickboxing started in the west. You did karate, then added boxing. For a hobby level practitioner doing it all at once makes the most sense. You don't need everything in wrestling, BJJ and Muay Thai for MMA. A lot of the stuff in those "base" styles is not going to be useful in MMA. Take the stuff that applies to MMA out of them, add in the specific things that are just relevant to MMA (ex G&P, cage/wall work, etc) and you have a complete system. There is no reason to learn spider guard or low singles and a ton of other stuff that doesn't really apply.

For a pro trying to make a career out of it cross-training is going to have more benefit, but they have a lot more time to train and there is a point of diminishing returns. But until the amateur side of the sport gets sorted out and can handle recreational practitioners and youth safely on a large scale most top level fighters are going to come in with a base in something else that they started competing in when they where young.

I once saw a small documentary that briefly discussed the history of kickboxing, that American boxers started adding in the basic kicks to their boxing styles and thus kickboxing came to be. I also heard once that Bruce Lee coined the term kickboxing and that those kicking shield started out as nothing more than those football shields that players run into that Dan Insanto incorporated into his martial arts training from when he used to play football.

 

[drop bear]

In my limited knowledge of MMA training, don't they focus on a few good moves of each category so to speak. eg. Strikes, Kicks, Grapples, Pins, etc.

I wouldn't call them jack of all trades, but have a focus group of moves that help in the cage. Of course, any style previous trained, or coached to use your strengths can still apply.

Also, agree with others. Not a fad.

Not really. The classes are broken up into styles generally. So if you do wrestling,boxing,muay Thai,bjj etc. You do all of it.

so you wont be as good as a boxer who is training six days a week. But you are doing really real boxing against real boxers.

Even if you do mma striking against real boxers.

And that is the difference between mma and the concept of this pick the best moves and integrate them idea.

 

[jezr74]

Not really. The classes are broken up into styles generally. So if you do wrestling,boxing,muay Thai,bjj etc. You do all of it.

so you wont be as good as a boxer who is training six days a week. But you are doing really real boxing against real boxers.

Even if you do mma striking against real boxers.

And that is the difference between mma and the concept of this pick the best moves and integrate them idea.

But you wouldn't be doing the whole syllabus for each style right? Just the parts that would increase your success in a match?

 

[drop bear]

You are obsessed with grappling, I am with stand up. Don't get it about always going to ground.

you are correct. The worst place you can be on the street is underneath a grappler.

(see what i did there?)

 

[drop bear]

But you wouldn't be doing the whole syllabus for each style right? Just the parts that would increase your success in a match?

We don't because we don't have the syllabus trained guys. To a certain degree. (we are a small club in a rural town) but for those that do. They absolutely train the systems.

So when our judo guy actually turns up for example. It is gi on bow in and do judo. It is not mma no gi judo throws.

 

[drop bear]

So here is integrated mma.(one of the best in Australia)

here is there legitimate bjj course. Nd in that photo is Adrian pang. Mma fighter in a gi with a belt on.

BJJ Integrated MMA Brisbane Australia

 

[Transk53]

you are correct. The worst place you can be on the street is underneath a grappler.

(see what i did there?)

Yeah, but no. Do you like hairy armpits lol.