Cyriacus
Senior Master
Is the idea that its the backbone of all martial arts shrowded in mystery as well, or only the justification?
MMA is like Facebook?
- Thread starter FrontKick-Jab-Punch
- Start date
Is the idea that its the backbone of all martial arts shrowded in mystery as well, or only the justification?
Kalamazoo Ninja
Yellow Belt
Just because you can't trace its origins over thousands of years doesn't mean it has no historical importance.
You make an awful lot of self-contradictory statements. You claim all (serious) martial arts come from China. And you claim that "Ninjutsu is the backbone of all martial arts".
How is it possible that the Japanese art of Ninjutsu could both originate in China AND be the backbone of Chinese martial arts?
And your dismissal of any art originating in Africa or South America as "savages hitting each other with sticks" is frankly racist as well as ignorant.
And then there's this claim. More rampant ignorance. The history of Nunjutsu is no more "shrouded" than that of most other arts.
Kalamazoo Ninja
Yellow Belt
I don't claim Ninjutsu as the backbone our Grandmaster Hatsumi Sensei does and I agree. I'm not racist. I hate you dog. Ninjutsu came from China (supposedly) and was perfected in Japan
Kalamazoo Ninja
Yellow Belt
My signature wins 
MMA is just a sport meant for entertainment.
MMA is just a sport meant for entertainment.That's a bold statement. So are you implying that only the Chinese were capable of a sophisticated way of defending themselves? Because I have to say that your views, if that is indeed what you are claiming, is wrong.
The Chinese did influence martial styles as much as any country at war with another influences their opponent. However there are many forms that are RADICALLY different from the Chinese styles of the period in which they both were developed. To say China influenced many styles would be correct, but to say China was the origin of all martial arts is not.
I would also like to point out that BJJ teaches you how to break limbs and kill someone if necessary. All arts used in MMA do have lethal techniques. However considering we aren't running a gladiator arena with fights to the death, you don't see lethal techniques used, or at least applied in a lethal manner. It doesn't mean the fighters are incapable of such.
Can you show me a quote where Hatsumi Sensei makes this claim?
Oh, so you DO make the claim, then. Self contradictory much?
Then it's probably best if you don't make such racist statements.
Why, because I point out how silly and self-contradictory your claims are? Wouldn't it be better if you actually SUPPORTED your claims instead?
How can you possibly know this, when "The history of the origins of Ninjutsu have always been shrouded in mystery"?
You need to make up your mind and decide which claims you're going to support....
Kalamazoo Ninja
Yellow Belt
African kung fu is weak
Hahaha usually I don't, and I don't plan on doing it anymore either. His claims are obviously not backed up by historical evidence and his last post made his intentions more than obvious.
Sometimes feeding the troll is the best and fastest way to prove conclusively that they ARE a troll. Then the solution is simple.
Kalamazoo Ninja
Yellow Belt
Dirty Dog I actually have these things called books. Weird huh? Try reading Hatsumi's 'way of the ninja' or 'unarmed fighting techniques of the samurai' my sources are all there. Also I have this thing called A REAL TEACHER who I study martial arts under. My Sensei is 5th Dan in the bujinkan and would gladly support my statements besides that racist one
Cyriacus
Senior Master
Kalamazoo Ninja
Yellow Belt
If I'm a troll then you are all troll meat Nam Nam Nam Nam Nam IMA eat u
Way to get way off subject you guys and gang up on the Ninja...typical (spits in disgust)
Way to get way off subject you guys and gang up on the Ninja...typical (spits in disgust)
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Chris Parker
Grandmaster
Miles (Kalamazoo).
You might want to step back a bit, as almost everything you've said here, with regards to martial arts, history, ninjutsu, MMA, and everything else, is wrong. In fact, the only thing I can't say is wrong is when you said your teacher is a fifth dan in the Bujinkan... but, bluntly, that doesn't really mean much either.
I sincerely hope that you reconsider making such statements, as you're not only making yourself look bad (and heading for a quick ban from the site, with the rules and policies here), but you are making the art you study look bad as well (by misrepresenting it and being a rather poor ambassador).
You might want to step back a bit, as almost everything you've said here, with regards to martial arts, history, ninjutsu, MMA, and everything else, is wrong. In fact, the only thing I can't say is wrong is when you said your teacher is a fifth dan in the Bujinkan... but, bluntly, that doesn't really mean much either.
I sincerely hope that you reconsider making such statements, as you're not only making yourself look bad (and heading for a quick ban from the site, with the rules and policies here), but you are making the art you study look bad as well (by misrepresenting it and being a rather poor ambassador).
If you feel that any member here has violated the site's Rules, please use the RTM button to notify the Staff. (The RTM button is a black triangle with an exclamation point that you'll find at the bottom left side of each post.) We'll look into it and take any appropriate action. To respond in kind opens you up to various sanctions and punishments. For example, a challenge post is an immediate and permanent ban...
jks9199
MT Asst. Administrator
OP
OP
FrontKick-Jab-Punch
Yellow Belt
I'm amused-slash-horrified that my question brought about all this. Then again, it wasn't my question that did it. I've only been on Martial Talk for four days, and already I've learned that 50% of the stuff I post will degenerate into an imagined badassery showdown. I mean, that's really what ALL message boards are like, but I somehow thought one with martial artists on it would be better, not worse.
I'll go ahead and be the one to instigate this time, so that at least when people get pissy at my post, it can be about something I actually wrote. =) I don't like MMA. There is no art to it at all, so it breeds thugs. It's like prison brawling. Sometimes it's quite skilled, yes, but often it really isn't at all. And watching people lie on the ground atop one another, barely moving, occasionally twitching out a punch, is about as entertaining as watching the "what's on TV" channel scroll by. The video some poor kid posted about a supposed Shaolin monk vs. a TKD fighter was more entertaining than any MMA match I've seen lately (I mention him as he made the comment that the video showed a better fight than most MMA matches, and then 6000 people tried to message board-assassinate him)(I agree with him, although what he posted wasn't really a fight)(it doesn't matter). I think people that learn a martial art truly and deeply first, and then want to go test it in MMA are okay, like our most recent winner who's name I forget at the moment but who actually has the right attitude (humble, polite, respectful), but people who try to "learn" MMA aren't getting any more out of it than if they took a cooking class and learned nothing but how to make microwave meals. Even if they were really tasty, they aren't really the same as being a chef.
In sum: MMA is okay as a sport if you like being bored 80% of the time, and has no value as a true martial art. There, is that offensive and instigatory enough? Now you can all tell me how easily MMAers can kick my TSD *** and maybe some of my Kung Fu friends will come defend me and we can get a big canvas ring to fight in and the audience can shout "kumite!" as we fight and we can recreate "Bloodsport." =)
FKJP; sarcasm estimate: 75 - 85%
I'll go ahead and be the one to instigate this time, so that at least when people get pissy at my post, it can be about something I actually wrote. =) I don't like MMA. There is no art to it at all, so it breeds thugs. It's like prison brawling. Sometimes it's quite skilled, yes, but often it really isn't at all. And watching people lie on the ground atop one another, barely moving, occasionally twitching out a punch, is about as entertaining as watching the "what's on TV" channel scroll by. The video some poor kid posted about a supposed Shaolin monk vs. a TKD fighter was more entertaining than any MMA match I've seen lately (I mention him as he made the comment that the video showed a better fight than most MMA matches, and then 6000 people tried to message board-assassinate him)(I agree with him, although what he posted wasn't really a fight)(it doesn't matter). I think people that learn a martial art truly and deeply first, and then want to go test it in MMA are okay, like our most recent winner who's name I forget at the moment but who actually has the right attitude (humble, polite, respectful), but people who try to "learn" MMA aren't getting any more out of it than if they took a cooking class and learned nothing but how to make microwave meals. Even if they were really tasty, they aren't really the same as being a chef.
In sum: MMA is okay as a sport if you like being bored 80% of the time, and has no value as a true martial art. There, is that offensive and instigatory enough? Now you can all tell me how easily MMAers can kick my TSD *** and maybe some of my Kung Fu friends will come defend me and we can get a big canvas ring to fight in and the audience can shout "kumite!" as we fight and we can recreate "Bloodsport." =)
FKJP; sarcasm estimate: 75 - 85%
Hey Miles, you seem to be pretty excited about studying ninjutsu. I'm going to offer some advice which will probably be really helpful if you plan to continue that study. If you're wondering about my credentials to offer said advice, I spent about 8 years in the Bujinkan and had acheived dan ranking before moving on to other arts. You might also want to pay attention to Chris Parker, who has over two decades of ninjutsu experience.Kalamazoo Ninja said:
Offering to fight someone because they are dismissive of your opinions is pretty much directly opposed to the principles of ninjutsu and the spirit of the Bujinkan. It makes you and your teacher look bad. It can also get you banned from this forum.Kalamazoo Ninja said:
An important aspect of historical ninjutsu was information gathering. That means that if you have no direct experience of a subject, it would be wise to learn as much as possible from people who do have that experience before spouting out absolute pronouncements.Kalamazoo Ninja said:
I was the person who stated earlier that modern MMA has pretty much developed into its own style. I don't compete in MMA, but I have taken quite a few MMA classes as a supplement to my BJJ practice. I regularly train with people who compete in MMA at both amateur and professional levels. My statement was based on that experience. An actual ninja who was under the original impression that MMA was not a style would be asking me questions about the basis of my statement rather than dismissing it as an indicator of idiocy.
If you ever have to use your Bujinkan Budo Taijutsu techiques in real life, I certainly hope the losers will not end up dead. I also certainly hope that you hope the same thing.Kalamazoo Ninja said:
Cyriacus
Senior Master
None of that was offensive, or instigatory. And frankly, noone is going to sing the praises of MMA over TSD. You cant honestly think any of us would.
See now, i for one wouldnt be upset with you because of your opinion. You dont have to like MMA.
Id just like to point out that MMA isnt what you described at all, and that id like an example of a match where people were laying on the ground doing nothing. Id also like one where that wasnt the result of someone forcibly restraining the other person in order to have that effect. Yes, MMA is rough, so are alot of systems. They arent aesthetically pleasing. They arent as technically precise (may i remind you im not just referring to MMA). They dont have to appeal to you. But might i ask that you be repelled by them for reasons that can be justified, even if its just a simple 'i dont like it', rather than calling it an untechnical laying on top of each other prison brawl thug fest with no 'art' to it at all? Does it occur to you that the 'art' side of things is only a good thing if its something you want?
You couldnt pay me to learn an 'art'. But if thats what you like, i have nothing against what youre doing, and i dont look at you as being a dancer whos scared of doing any real violence. Now, however you just reacted to reading that, is how someone feels when you call them a thug or a prison brawler because they arent into the 'art'. Or when you boil a whole system down to laying on top of each other twisting, much like how i could say that you hop around each other jabbing pathetically at the air.
I wouldnt say any of those things because A: Theyre false, and B: Youre doing what you like. Youre learning an art, great. That doesnt change the fact that you couldnt pay me to learn an art, and that the absense of an art doesnt render something thuggish.
You dont like MMA as it is. Fine. But much like the imaginary criticisms of TSD i brought up, theyre reasons you pick up along the way that can be torn down very, very easily.
In closing, if MMA is your definition of thuggish and prisoner brawling, you may need to read up on how thugs do violence and what a prison brawl looks like
See? Where not bad people. And may i please remind you that youre the one who came in here, and presented the idea that MMA is, as you put it, "What I mean by that is, on FB we may have 100s of superficial friends, but that doesn't necessarily mean we've developed true, deep friendships there. I heard someone argue that MMA is like that: by combining so many techniques and styles, a practitioner may be a skilled fighter overall, but doesn't have any depth in a particular style or art. Thoughts?"
Your viewpoint was obvious. None of us were offended. Did you expect us to be offended when you elaborated? We answered your question.
Steve
Mostly Harmless
How many people have you killed? I ask because I would like to gauge your credibility.
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