Mma guy is excited about sparring.

[Kung Fu Wang]

I'm doing the first part (the footwork) of this exercise.

SC training is different from most other MA training. You train offense skill first. You train defense skill later.

Most SC teachers won't teach defense skill (such as "leg escape") until 3 years later. The logic is to encourage people to attack, instead of to play defense. No matter how good your anti-takedown skill may be, your still need to develop take down skill first.

Front cut solo:



Front cut application:

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

If you are going to learn something new, why not learn BJJ instead of Chinese wrestling? BJJ is well proven and well respected. You should be able to find Gracie JJ close by.

You have to take down your opponent before you can mount on top of him.

 

[Alan0354]

You have to take down your opponent before you can mount on top of him.

What are you talking about? That's has nothing to do with what I said.

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

What are you talking about? That's has nothing to do with what I said.

You said, "If you are going to learn something new, why not learn BJJ instead of Chinese wrestling?"

Chinese wrestling - take down skill
BJJ - ground skill

 

[Alan0354]

You said, "If you are going to learn something new, why not learn BJJ instead of Chinese wrestling?"

Chinese wrestling - take down skill
BJJ - ground skill

BJJ sure know take down, BJJ is not just ground skill. You watch all the UFC early fights where Gracie took everyone down and beat them to submission(including Judo)? BJJ has been proven on the world stage, took people years before they could solve the puzzle and overcome BJJ strong hold.

To be honest after watching those videos you provided, I have a hard time distinguish those from Judo that I learned before. If I were younger and not injured, I would learn Muy Thai and BJJ together to get the best of both worlds.

Did you read the OP that the choice is ONLY TKD or BJJ within one hour drive?

 

[JowGaWolf]

took people years before they could solve the puzzle and overcome BJJ strong hold.

It only took people years before they could solve the puzzle because of the phase that BJJ went through.
BJJ exploited the fight that TMA systems and other fighting systems fought " Style A vs Style A" BJJ didn't take this path towards their training. They often sparred against people outside of their system. As a result they knew what to expect from other systems and how that would apply to BJJ.

The second phase is the popularity phase where more people cared about learning BJJ than about defeating it. This phase lasted longer than the training phase mention above. How can Jow Ga beat BJJ? I don't know, but I won't learn if I only do BJJ. I have to look within my own system to understand how to apply the techniques against BJJ. If I just do BJJ then I will never find an answer to "How can Jow Ga beat BJJ?" What's worse I won't even be able to answer, "How should I use Jow Ga to deal with BJJ?"

Now we are seeing people from other systems answer these questions. Schools are starting to do more sparring against other fighting systems.

TMA went through a long period of "System A vs System A" but that is starting to change now and TMA will benefit from it. However, BJJ is starting to fall into the same hole that TMA is trying to climb out of. BJJ vs BJJ. Some practitioners are good when going against other BJJ but will lack the skills to go against someone outside of the system. This isn't opinion. This is an opinion stated by one of the Gracies. What was originally done as a fighting system has turned into a sport system and some of the lessons that were taught for fighting in the streets aren't being taught in the sports environment.

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

"How can Jow Ga beat BJJ?"

The following strategy has not been fully developed in BJJ training.

- Take your opponent down.
- Drop your knee/elbow on his body (such as neck, chest, groin, ...) and finish him.

As far as I know, not only BJJ doesn't train this, Judo, American wrestling also don't train this.

If you can smash your opponent's head to the ground by your neck control, and drop your knee on his chest/groin, you may not have to play ground game with him after that.

 

[Alan0354]

It only took people years before they could solve the puzzle because of the phase that BJJ went through.
BJJ exploited the fight that TMA systems and other fighting systems fought " Style A vs Style A" BJJ didn't take this path towards their training. They often sparred against people outside of their system. As a result they knew what to expect from other systems and how that would apply to BJJ.

The second phase is the popularity phase where more people cared about learning BJJ than about defeating it. This phase lasted longer than the training phase mention above. How can Jow Ga beat BJJ? I don't know, but I won't learn if I only do BJJ. I have to look within my own system to understand how to apply the techniques against BJJ. If I just do BJJ then I will never find an answer to "How can Jow Ga beat BJJ?" What's worse I won't even be able to answer, "How should I use Jow Ga to deal with BJJ?"

Now we are seeing people from other systems answer these questions. Schools are starting to do more sparring against other fighting systems.

TMA went through a long period of "System A vs System A" but that is starting to change now and TMA will benefit from it. However, BJJ is starting to fall into the same hole that TMA is trying to climb out of. BJJ vs BJJ. Some practitioners are good when going against other BJJ but will lack the skills to go against someone outside of the system. This isn't opinion. This is an opinion stated by one of the Gracies. What was originally done as a fighting system has turned into a sport system and some of the lessons that were taught for fighting in the streets aren't being taught in the sports environment.

See, I look at things differently and more efficiently. Like I learn TKD/kick boxing, instead of insisting on improving TKD to face newer styles, I would just go learn other styles and put it into my war chest. This is a different world, everything move in warp speed. That's why MMA is the most dominant fighting style bar none. It's not that they have good ideas, it's they learn whatever works. THIS TAKE A LOT OF HUMILITY TO BE HUMBLE to say there are better things they don't know, and willing to learn and improve.

Just look at the MMA fights, from the way they fight, you can tell what year the fight was. This is because they constantly improve and whatever worked before might not work now. Look at Gracie got butt kicked by Matt Huges, then Huges got defeated shortly.

From where I see it, PRIDE is getting in the way and it's the biggest obstacle in this. Just watch, the more each style fight with other style like you suggested, the more they ended up looking like MMA fights. Why not just do what MMA does, incorporate whatever works and get on with it?

Far as I concern, I chose TKD and the school in 1984 because Bruce Lee's was the most effective fighting style at the time. If I were to choose today, TKD would be far from the top pick. I would pick Muy Thai and BJJ and train together, or go to a MMA school.

That said, my TKD teacher actually move towards kickboxing at the time instead of traditional TKD, he actually invited a JJ instructor to teach the class once a while so we get to learn JJ. That, is at least how it should be done. I still think highly of my school, not for TKD, but the openness of my teacher to give us the best he know how at the time. I don't recall my teach ever talked about other styles or criticize other styles. He only taught us the best he knew how. I am sure if he were teaching today, he will put a lot of training in MMA style.

 

[Alan0354]

The following strategy has not been fully developed in BJJ training.

- Take your opponent down.
- Drop your knee/elbow on his body (such as neck, chest, groin, ...) and finish him.

As far as I know, not only BJJ doesn't train this, Judo, American wrestling also don't train this.

If you can smash your opponent's head to the ground by your neck control, and drop your knee on his chest, you may not have to play ground game with him after that.

What make you think BJJ has not improved since Gracie lost? There's only one way to find out, and it's not by talking. I put my money on BJJ.

 

[Flying Crane]

The following strategy has not been fully developed in BJJ training.

- Take your opponent down.
- Drop your knee/elbow on his body (such as neck, chest, groin, ...) and finish him.

As far as I know, not only BJJ doesn't train this, Judo, American wrestling also don't train this.

If you can smash your opponent's head to the ground by your neck control, and drop your knee on his chest/groin, you may not have to play ground game with him after that.

That might work, if you are better than he is. It depends. But there is an ethics problem, however. Doing something like this can lead to a real injury. Are you willing to do that to a sparring partner?

 

[JowGaWolf]

Here's an easy question.

How can TKD beat BJJ with TKD, if TKD has never sparred against BJJ? The only way to find a TKD answer to BJJ is to do a lot of sparring, using TKD against BJJ. It may require that you dig deep into the system.

Like I learn TKD/kick boxing, instead of insisting on improving TKD to face newer styles, I would just go learn other styles and put it into my war chest. This is a different world, everything move in warp speed.

How many times did your TKD training have you spar against BJJ?
How many times did your kick boxing training have you spar against BJJ.?

Things only seem like warp speed when the knowledge is not readily available. The things that I learned about Jow Ga kung fu are things that took me for a long time. But that won't be the same for my students, my students will be able to learn those same techniques within a year easily. The only difference is that the knowledge wasn't readily available to me during my journey which is why it took so long for me to use. While jumping from one system to the next works for you. For other people who have a passion for the system they train in. Jumping around isn't a good option as it won't help them to understand their system more.

That's why MMA is the most dominant fighting style bar none. It's not that they have good ideas, it's they learn whatever works.

The more MMA that I see the less I believes this to be true. MMA fighters tend to use what works best for them and the announcers often highlight this preference that the fighters have.

Just look at the MMA fights, from the way they fight, you can tell what year the fight was. This is because they constantly improve and whatever worked before might not work now.

My guess is that any improvement in a technique is done by someone who isn't hopping around from technique to technique just because they think their technique doesn't work anymore. I can't improve Jow Ga techniques if one day I decided that they don't work anymore so I take another martial arts instead. You can only develop something that you have commitment to. If anything, MMA has a good record of showing that the old stuff works.

From where I see it, PRIDE is getting in the way and it's the biggest obstacle in this. Just watch, the more each style fight with other style like you suggested, the more they ended up looking like MMA fights.

This is not TMA starting to look more like MMA. What we are seeing now is what TMA has always said was possible.

The majority of the techniques used in the video below existed in TMA and old grappling systems way before the MMA that you know, existed.

 

[Alan0354]

Here's an easy question.

How can TKD beat BJJ with TKD, if TKD has never sparred against BJJ? The only way to find a TKD answer to BJJ is to do a lot of sparring, using TKD against BJJ. It may require that you dig deep into the system.

How many times did your TKD training have you spar against BJJ?
How many times did your kick boxing training have you spar against BJJ.?

Things only seem like warp speed when the knowledge is not readily available. The things that I learned about Jow Ga kung fu are things that took me for a long time. But that won't be the same for my students, my students will be able to learn those same techniques within a year easily. The only difference is that the knowledge wasn't readily available to me during my journey which is why it took so long for me to use. While jumping from one system to the next works for you. For other people who have a passion for the system they train in. Jumping around isn't a good option as it won't help them to understand their system more.


The more MMA that I see the less I believes this to be true. MMA fighters tend to use what works best for them and the announcers often highlight this preference that the fighters have.


My guess is that any improvement in a technique is done by someone who isn't hopping around from technique to technique just because they think their technique doesn't work anymore. I can't improve Jow Ga techniques if one day I decided that they don't work anymore so I take another martial arts instead. You can only develop something that you have commitment to. If anything, MMA has a good record of showing that the old stuff works.


This is not TMA starting to look more like MMA. What we are seeing now is what TMA has always said was possible.

The majority of the techniques used in the video below existed in TMA and old grappling systems way before the MMA that you know, existed.

Well, we look at things different, no point of keep going through that.

How's the sparring goes?

 

[JowGaWolf]

What make you think BJJ has not improved since Gracie lost? There's only one way to find out, and it's not by talking. I put my money on BJJ.

The issue isn't about has BJJ improve. The reality is that everyone else has improved in dealing with BJJ. Many of which have found solutions within the systems that they trained. Like I've said many times. The only way to get good with dealing with BJJ is to spar against BJJ. This is what we are seeing where as before. Very few people actually sparred against BJJ so they were unfamiliar with what BJJ tries to do.

Muay Thai fighter escaped BJJ's efforts then made BJJ play the stand up game. Muay Thai guy didn't win with BJJ. At the very least he learned to escape from it. This is an example of finding a solution within one's system.

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

That might work, if you are better than he is. It depends. But there is an ethics problem, however. Doing something like this can lead to a real injury. Are you willing to do that to a sparring partner?

Just like to punch on a heavy bag, you can always drop your knee on a throwing dummy.

 

[Flying Crane]

The issue isn't about has BJJ improve. The reality is that everyone else has improved in dealing with BJJ. Many of which have found solutions within the systems that they trained. Like I've said many times. The only way to get good with dealing with BJJ is to spar against BJJ. This is what we are seeing where as before. Very few people actually sparred against BJJ so they were unfamiliar with what BJJ tries to do.

Muay Thai fighter escaped BJJ's efforts then made BJJ play the stand up game. Muay Thai guy didn't win with BJJ. At the very least he learned to escape from it. This is an example of finding a solution within one's system.

I have no idea who these guys are. Do you know that the one fellow is a BJJ guy? How good is he? What is the extent of his standup striking training? I imagine some folks here will come on and state that he isn’t very good at BJJ so, ya know, it doesn’t count…

 

[JowGaWolf]

Well, we look at things different, no point of keep going through that.

How's the sparring goes?

I will always try to get you to see a larger view. That's just me. It's never ending ha ha ha.

I haven't sparred yet soooo. It is what it is. If he's there today then I will ask him if he would like to spar. If he's not then I'll just go home and take a break from training. I've worked out everyday this week and I hit my limit yesterday. I need my 2 days of healing time and I didn't take it so I'm paying the price. But I'm always up for light sparring. Sparring isn't about winning for me, so on my off days I can still learn something from it. Like become familiar with my opponent and how he moves. Any sparring is an opportunity for front row observation.

 

[Flying Crane]

Just like to punch on a heavy bag, you can always drop your knee on a throwing dummy.

I don’t dispute the idea, but if you test it for real with a sparring partner, you might actually seriously injure him. Smashing his head on the ground, and all. So it is problematic. It’s one of those things that are tough to test for real.

 

[JowGaWolf]

Just like to punch on a heavy bag, you can always drop your knee on a throwing dummy.

Now I want a throwing dummy lol

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

What make you think BJJ has not improved since Gracie lost? There's only one way to find out, and it's not by talking. I put my money on BJJ.

One day when BJJ guys all train like this (a true integration of the striking art and the grappling art), I will agree with you.

The BJJ approach is to take your opponent down and then control him. The better approach is to control your opponent, take him down, and still remain that control.

 

[JowGaWolf]

I don’t dispute the idea, but if you test it for real with a sparring partner, you might actually seriously injure him. Smashing his head on the ground, and all. So it is problematic. It’s one of those things that are tough to test for real.

I have a video of someone getting thrown to the grown and it resulted in broken bones. The only thing worst than hitting the ground is to have your opponent crush you in the process. It's double punishment. I was really mad when it happened, because to me it looked intentional without the understanding of the damage it could do. The lack of understanding made it worse because now it's reckless behavior which I hate more.