MMA as self defense

[Tez3]

Yeah, I can see that is what you were saying, but that was a different argument to what we were saying (hence me being able to agree with everyone... you don't really hate me, do you? I mean, I'm really very nice.... or so I've managed to lead people to believe....).

We were simply saying that the results of training is that you will follow that training under pressure. That can be positive and useful, or it can be less than ideal. I personally think there are plenty of examples of both. The example given here is one of putting too much trust in something being what it isn't, and buying into the belief that it is effective and useful where it isn't.

As for Iain, I have huge amounts of respect for him (he's actually the cover story of our local MA magazine in the most recent issue, which is one of two reasons I bought it).

Nah course I don't hate you! In fact I'm going to have to PM you about a certain person who's trying to take over training, he isn't getting enough blood to smell lol! Turned into a real pain. I'll do it a bit later have to get some sleep before nightshift.

Of course that chap could have responded with a shoot because that's the only technique he knows how to do lol! Beginners tend to go with what they know how to do rather than use a technique they have picked out as being appropriate....what I'm trying to say is there's too many variables to decide that you fight like you train exactly, I would say more you fight with the techniques you know you can do, a beginner may only have a couple, a master several more or they may have too many! the MMA lad may have responded differently if he'd been more experienced and though aha a nice punch will do the trick (or whatever) or better still the 'on me toes' technique away from the knife wielder. It doesn't have to be the style he trains in that makes him react like that it could be sheer lack of experience. A white belt in any style could do an equally inapt move yet they train self defence intently.
You know I'm thinking now the title of the thread is skewhiff, probably inviting misconceptions etc


Iain came to training with a yellow... okay gold trackie top on with Australia writ large across it, (just to please the Aussies).

 

[Kempojujutsu]

I now England and probably most of Europe things are very different from here in the U.S in regards to training. I was watching the episode of Michael Bisping, and they said he had training in Jujutsu, karate, kickboxing etc.

Here in the U.S when you talk about MMA espcially on the local/ameatur level, most guys have never trained before. Most guys are little wanna be gang bangers, or have been in trouble with the law. Or are your local tough guy who gets in fights every weekend at the bar/pub.

I have guys that come in every week wanting to know when they can fight in the cage. So we start them out with about 20 minutes of cardio training. They next thing you know these tough guys are huffing and puffing and ready to puke. Most of the time it only takes 5 minutes to get this result.

MMA in Europe it seems like, the people are farther adavanced then their counter parts here in the U.S. Again this maybe why there is so much confusing in this tread.

 

[Chris Parker]

Hey Irene,

Nah course I don't hate you! In fact I'm going to have to PM you about a certain person who's trying to take over training, he isn't getting enough blood to smell lol! Turned into a real pain. I'll do it a bit later have to get some sleep before nightshift.

Oh good! I feel better now....

Of course that chap could have responded with a shoot because that's the only technique he knows how to do lol! Beginners tend to go with what they know how to do rather than use a technique they have picked out as being appropriate....what I'm trying to say is there's too many variables to decide that you fight like you train exactly, I would say more you fight with the techniques you know you can do, a beginner may only have a couple, a master several more or they may have too many! the MMA lad may have responded differently if he'd been more experienced and though aha a nice punch will do the trick (or whatever) or better still the 'on me toes' technique away from the knife wielder. It doesn't have to be the style he trains in that makes him react like that it could be sheer lack of experience. A white belt in any style could do an equally inapt move yet they train self defence intently.
You know I'm thinking now the title of the thread is skewhiff, probably inviting misconceptions etc

I think it's a little more accurate to say that you fight (act/respond) with the tactics you have trained, and hopefully you have trained a number of different physical "techniques" to express those tactics successfully. But whether you have only one technique, or many, you will still respond based on your training (caveat: provided it has been taken as "powerful" and "successful" on an unconscious level... and in that aspect I believe MMA and sport systems probably excel).

Iain came to training with a yellow... okay gold trackie top on with Australia writ large across it, (just to please the Aussies).

"Australian Gold" we call that colour.... some others choose to call it Canary Yellow, but they don't count.... Well done to him!

 

[Tez3]

I now England and probably most of Europe things are very different from here in the U.S in regards to training. I was watching the episode of Michael Bisping, and they said he had training in Jujutsu, karate, kickboxing etc.

Here in the U.S when you talk about MMA espcially on the local/ameatur level, most guys have never trained before. Most guys are little wanna be gang bangers, or have been in trouble with the law. Or are your local tough guy who gets in fights every weekend at the bar/pub.

I have guys that come in every week wanting to know when they can fight in the cage. So we start them out with about 20 minutes of cardio training. They next thing you know these tough guys are huffing and puffing and ready to puke. Most of the time it only takes 5 minutes to get this result.

MMA in Europe it seems like, the people are farther adavanced then their counter parts here in the U.S. Again this maybe why there is so much confusing in this tread.

Ah gang bangers! Now you see we have another language problem a gangbang in the UK is an orgy and gang banger well you can guess so it makes me smile when I see the American version as I see a massive love in not a fight.

We tend not to get so many people coming into the MMA that are u/t hardmen (under training, squaddie word) we get more martial arts people and boxers ( yes I know that a martial art) Judo players and BJJ people. there's all the wannabes of course but they don't go anywhere near training.
Bisping trains at Wolfslair and his coaches include some very good at self defence techniques. Some like Karl Tanswell are known for SD and MMA. Three fighters off the top of my head that you may have seen;
Ross Pearson BB in TKD and brown in Judo
Dan Hardy BB TKD
Paul Daly BB karate.

http://www.clubbchimera.com/?p=131

 

[Kempojujutsu]

Ah gang bangers! Now you see we have another language problem a gangbang in the UK is an orgy and gang banger well you can guess so it makes me smile when I see the American version as I see a massive love in not a fight.

Well in the U.S it also means that too. But it also means some wanna be street thug that belongs too some affliated gang.

 

[teekin]

I now England and probably most of Europe things are very different from here in the U.S in regards to training. I was watching the episode of Michael Bisping, and they said he had training in Jujutsu, karate, kickboxing etc.

Here in the U.S when you talk about MMA espcially on the local/ameatur level, most guys have never trained before. Most guys are little wanna be gang bangers, or have been in trouble with the law. Or are your local tough guy who gets in fights every weekend at the bar/pub.

I have guys that come in every week wanting to know when they can fight in the cage. So we start them out with about 20 minutes of cardio training. They next thing you know these tough guys are huffing and puffing and ready to puke. Most of the time it only takes 5 minutes to get this result.

MMA in Europe it seems like, the people are farther adavanced then their counter parts here in the U.S. Again this maybe why there is so much confusing in this tread.

I think Tez's 1st reaction not so far off !!!!!! just sayin' :lol:


Lori

 

[sgtmac_46]

You know, I think it does actually fit with Kempojujutsu's understanding, in that the guy who rushed a knife did so because that is what he had trained as a successful strategy. With your guys, as you say, they are dominantly TMA guys who have trained MMA as well (and have a seperate but integrated self defence training as well), so I would hope that they would respond a little differently... but they would still be responding (fighting) the way they had trained. Kempojujutsu's guy simply didn't have the training background your guys do, but the ideas as to the effects of training on actions stand, on both your parts.

I don't see much better response among quite a few TMA systems, either, especially the Korean and Japanese empty hand systems, that tack on knife defense as an addition.

Quite frankly, unless it's from the FMA's or Malaysian arts, most of what I see will get you killed about as fast as those same folks claim MMA will.

 

[TheLegend731]

I think mma could teach you to fight effectively. Self-defense however, may not be its strongpoint, because I don't see self-defense as mma's main objective. There are arts that are designed just for fighting and some that were made just for self-defense. Some are known as killing arts for self-defense.

So, although I do think that an mma practitioner may have an edge over an average person, it might be not be as effective as an art that specializes in real scenario self-defense like krav maga or systema.

 

[Tez3]

The constituent parts that make up MMA are designed for self defence, as most fighters I know are very skilful in their TMA's it stands to reason they can defend themselves just fine. It doesn't take the brain of Stephen Hawking to be able to switch from rules to non rules. We can all switch on to running like hell to save our lives even if we only jog for fun or even not at all.

 

[sgtmac_46]

The constituent parts that make up MMA are designed for self defence, as most fighters I know are very skilful in their TMA's it stands to reason they can defend themselves just fine. It doesn't take the brain of Stephen Hawking to be able to switch from rules to non rules. We can all switch on to running like hell to save our lives even if we only jog for fun or even not at all.

Yeah, no kidding.......it always amuses me the folks who claim that MMA fighters can't defend themselves because they spend all their time fighting in a ring.......but the person making the claim doesn't seem to find it ironic that they think they CAN defend themselves, despite spending most of their time in an office or factory.