MMA Anarchist Ordered to Surrender Passport

[Archangel M]

But that's the double standard in our system that wastes so much time and manpower. Because of a person's celebrity status, he can get away/not get away with something? I don't think someone should be punished any more or less than another person due to celebrity. But that's my opinion.

Eh..incarceration is on the table for all of them. Its not a "double standard". It's a choice available at sentencing. "Play the game take your chances".

 

[seasoned]

Where is that coming from?

We have lots of tolerence over here, we even have a Bill of Rights.

He has every right to expouse his veiws.

I have every right to hold him in disdain for being a meathead Anarchist covered in Soviet symbolic tattoos.

I guess the tattoos are a part of that free speech thing also.

I say if you want to enjoy the freedom, then adhear to the laws of the land. Just because we are free to be an a-hole, does not mean we have to be one.

 

[Tez3]

Actually, as of July 29, 2009.........Monson has pled guilty.........the judge has accepted the plea. Your protocol has been met, and Monson is NO LONGER 'Innocent until proven guilty'........Monson is now guilty........so you can end your silly line of argument, as it is defunct.

You're not seeing the big picture are you? What makes our countries different from countries such as Iraq, Iran,Burma, China, Zimbabwe etc? It's that we have justice systems that, while not perfect, do try to be open and fair. We know that there's miscarriages of justice and people who sometimes get away with things they shouldn't but we don't have the show trials, the guilty because I'm the leader of the country and say you are and all the rest of the stuff the unfree part of the world has.

Do you undrstand how precious the 'innocent until proven guilty' thing is? And while you may not like it the fact that everyne is allowed legal representation is more that many countries allow.

I was brought up with my mother's stories of living under the Nazis and how all freedoms were taken away, how people were hauled away by the police to be questioned, already thought guilty and then executed without trial so to me the rights our countries have aren't just a silly line of argument, they damn well mean something, something worth dying for if necessary. You may only want those rights for those you deem worthy but what makes our countries better than many is that those rights are for all.

My point is not whether Jeff has been silly, childish or annoying but that he is entitled to the same rights of being thought innocent until found guilty, the right to a fair trial and representation just the same as everyone else. If you can't see that, there's no amount of my explaining, will ever convince you of what a great thing it is to have.

He's been found guilty after a fair trial, don't you think that him having that is something you can be proud of? Aren't you proud of your countries justice system or would you prefer Chinas?

 

[Tez3]

Apparently you have problems with hyperbole for the sake of making a point.....if you actually thought the poster SERIOUSLY suggested tagging should really be a capital offense, something was lost in translation.

As for being a 'Smart guy'.......I never found Jeff Monson to be that, exactly.

So where exactly does the poster say he wasn't serious?

Do you know Jeff then?

 

[Archangel M]

He's been found guilty after a fair trial, don't you think that him having that is something you can be proud of? Aren't you proud of your countries justice system or would you prefer Chinas?

He's talking about people telling others who are NOT on a jury or a judges bench that they cant have an opinion (or at least express one) on a person because... "INNOCENT TILL PROVEN GUILTY". I can rant and rave that this guy is guilty as SIN and deserves the CHAIR! all I want. I'm not on the jury....

It's a legal rule...not a social one.

 

[Tez3]

He's talking about people telling others who are NOT on a jury or a judges bench that they cant have an opinion (or at least express one) on a person because... "INNOCENT TILL PROVEN GUILTY". I can rant and rave that this guy is guilty as SIN and deserves the CHAIR! all I want. I'm not on the jury....

It's a legal rule...not a social one.

If you were facing charges you'd hope people thought you were innocent until proven guilty though wouldn't you? It wouldn't just be a legal law then. Imagine if all your family, friends, work colleagues etc all had you down as guilty because they are entitled to their opinion rather than carry on what may be a legality but in practice is a reasonable way to think. At any rate it's a better way to think that getting carried away with self rightousness.

so the guy did something stupid, he's pleaded guilty, fine him, make him clean it off etc, what really is the problem? Is it that he's a non conformist? an MMA fighter, tattooed or you suspect him of being that most unholy of things, a communist, shock, horror! I suspect thats it really...he's one of those dam commies ain't he!
You don't see a guy behaving badly, you see a communist and there's nothing too bad for one of them is there?

 

[sgtmac_46]

So where exactly does the poster say he wasn't serious?

Do you know Jeff then?

I know sarcasm and hyperbole.........it's lost on some people.

 

[sgtmac_46]

You're not seeing the big picture are you? What makes our countries different from countries such as Iraq, Iran,Burma, China, Zimbabwe etc? It's that we have justice systems that, while not perfect, do try to be open and fair. We know that there's miscarriages of justice and people who sometimes get away with things they shouldn't but we don't have the show trials, the guilty because I'm the leader of the country and say you are and all the rest of the stuff the unfree part of the world has.

Do you undrstand how precious the 'innocent until proven guilty' thing is? And while you may not like it the fact that everyne is allowed legal representation is more that many countries allow.

I was brought up with my mother's stories of living under the Nazis and how all freedoms were taken away, how people were hauled away by the police to be questioned, already thought guilty and then executed without trial so to me the rights our countries have aren't just a silly line of argument, they damn well mean something, something worth dying for if necessary. You may only want those rights for those you deem worthy but what makes our countries better than many is that those rights are for all.

My point is not whether Jeff has been silly, childish or annoying but that he is entitled to the same rights of being thought innocent until found guilty, the right to a fair trial and representation just the same as everyone else. If you can't see that, there's no amount of my explaining, will ever convince you of what a great thing it is to have.

He's been found guilty after a fair trial, don't you think that him having that is something you can be proud of? Aren't you proud of your countries justice system or would you prefer Chinas?

HE HAS BEEN FOUND GUILTY ALREADY.....IN A COURT......HE PLED GUILTY AND THE JUDGE ACCEPTED HIS PLEA! If you don't understand that, I can't say it in smaller words. He's met ALL CRITERIA to be considered now 'GUILTY'.

What you're doing now is called PUNTING!

By the way....your diatribe about the justice system to cover your butt on not knowing that Monson has ALREADY been convicted, and your little 'Innocent Until Proven Guilty' was classic......China, Iran.........You even managed to include the NAZIS in your diatribe, therefore invoking Godwin! That earns you the DRAMA QUEEN OF THE WEEK title......CONGRATULATIONS! opcorn:

 

[sgtmac_46]

I understand where you're coming from. But I don't think this incident should warrant jail time. It's a waste of time and money on so many levels.

Besides, I think this is blown way out of proportion. What about the people that graffiti on a regular basis? Should we throw them in prison for painting on public property? Or should we fine them when we catch them, and be happy that some guy has a job to clean that stuff up.

Graffiti on public property isn't right. But I don't think it's that serious.

I like how you distinguish 'Painting on public property'........because you'd feel different if it was your garage door painted.

By the way.....who do you think PAYS for repainting public property? I DO! How much do you think it costs to repaint a building?

Snowman needs to thaw his punk *** in a jail cell for a couple months as an example.

 

[Gaius Julius Caesar]

I think an instance of immaturity does not warrant jail time. The umbrella term "anarchy" does have negative connotations for the conservative, but doesn't necessarily mean the man meant that the capitol building should burn down.

In a way, this particular act of graffiti is a clear cut example as to why one would tag an anarchist symbol on a capitol building... Because the State is busy spending taxpayer money to prosecute what should be considered a misdemeanor, or simply warrant a fine and slap on the wrist.

I see this more as a joke, and Monson is winning that one.

Personally, I don't think it's tasteful to graffiti that sort of thing. It doesn't usually get your point across and some poor city worker has to make time to clean it up. There are much better ways to stir the pot in America... Like post in online forums.

I do have to ask: where does the meathead thing come from? Apparently, the guy has some smarts to understand different levels of anarchism, and get a Master's in (what I'm assuming) Social Work. Would certain prejudices and herd mentality possibly color that particular quip? Maybe.

But I won't go overboard, like the State of Washington. Because then the anarchist would prove a point to both the state and on a social level, since we're here discussing it behind our keyboards.

I call him a meathead because if you read the article, he spouts off all the non thinking regergitated cliche's "Send your people off to die." (They voulunteered) and what not.

He might be intellagent and have a masters degree but he has little common sense. Some intellagent people have to overcomplicate or cant see things for how they are.

I dont think he should go to jail, that's a waste of time and taxpayer money, just make him pay a fine. I'm half way between a Conservative and Libertarian myself and thing less people should go to jail (Kill mureders and child moesters, jail robbers and rapist and gang leaders/ drug kingpins, send addicts to rehab and make jerks like Monsson pay fines. Less money spent, less hardinging of criminals i.e. a pothead goes in an armed robber comes out, people who need help get a chance at it and more money back into our system)

I have no intrest in stiffleing what he says, he has every right to say anything and I have a right to shoot it down.

 

[sgtmac_46]

If you were facing charges you'd hope people thought you were innocent until proven guilty though wouldn't you? It wouldn't just be a legal law then. Imagine if all your family, friends, work colleagues etc all had you down as guilty because they are entitled to their opinion rather than carry on what may be a legality but in practice is a reasonable way to think. At any rate it's a better way to think that getting carried away with self rightousness.

so the guy did something stupid, he's pleaded guilty, fine him, make him clean it off etc, what really is the problem? Is it that he's a non conformist? an MMA fighter, tattooed or you suspect him of being that most unholy of things, a communist, shock, horror! I suspect thats it really...he's one of those dam commies ain't he!
You don't see a guy behaving badly, you see a communist and there's nothing too bad for one of them is there?

Imagine if your friends and co-workers were stupid enough to buy your 'I'm innocent' protestations after seeing pictures of you spray painting the pillar in question, complete with an article interviewing you about doing just that, along with graffiti that fits your motif.........you'd have some stupid friends and family!


As for communists, why do you give them a pass? You wouldn't give a Neo-Nazi a pass......and communists killed more people in the 20th Century than even the Nazis. 'Beneath the 'Heil Hitler, he might be a good guy'.

Face it.....Jeff 'The Snowman' Monson is a jackass........his ACTIONS and his WORDS prove exactly that. Having TALENT doesn't equal having CHARACTER!

 

[sgtmac_46]

I call him a meathead because if you read the article, he spouts off all the non thinking regergitated cliche's "Send your people off to die." (They voulunteered) and what not.

He might be intellagent and have a masters degree but he has little common sense. Some intellagent people have to overcomplicate or cant see things for how they are.

I dont think he should go to jail, that's a waste of time and taxpayer money, just make him pay a fine. I'm half way between a Conservative and Libertarian myself and thing less people should go to jail (Kill mureders and child moesters, jail robbers and rapist and gang leaders/ drug kingpins, send addicts to rehab and make jerks like Monsson pay fines. Less money spent, less hardinging of criminals i.e. a pothead goes in an armed robber comes out, people who need help get a chance at it and more money back into our system)

I have no intrest in stiffleing what he says, he has every right to say anything and I have a right to shoot it down.

A Masters in Psychology is not that impressive. The folks I went through my Psychology program with were mostly morons who couldn't tie their shoes without moral support.....and the teachers weren't much better.

It's not even the subject matter itself, it's that Psychology and Sociology programs attract that sort of person.

 

[Gaius Julius Caesar]

Imagine if your friends and co-workers were stupid enough to buy your 'I'm innocent' protestations after seeing pictures of you spray painting the pillar in question, complete with an article interviewing you about doing just that, along with graffiti that fits your motif.........you'd have some stupid friends and family!


As for communists, why do you give them a pass? You wouldn't give a Neo-Nazi a pass......and communists killed more people in the 20th Century than even the Nazis. 'Beneath the 'Heil Hitler, he might be a good guy'.

Face it.....Jeff 'The Snowman' Monson is a jackass........his ACTIONS and his WORDS prove exactly that. Having TALENT doesn't equal having CHARACTER!

Great point, as someone who remebers the cold war, who's step father had family in Poland and fought in S.E. Asia, I find this "No big deal" attitude towards communist and kids wearing Che "I executed thousands for disagreeing with me" Guavera t-shirts disgusting.

Yeah, nothing wrong with communism, it's o.k. to limit peoples potential, to kill them when they speak out against the system, to seize their property or just kill them because they are in the way...NOT!

Funny, if someone wears a Nazi t- shirt, most people would have no problem watching that person get their butt kicked, but would scream travisty if you did it to some little suburban Trotsky in a Che t.
(Not that either should be assulted, just riddiculed.)

 

[sgtmac_46]

Great point, as someone who remebers the cold war, who's step father had family in Poland and fought in S.E. Asia, I find this "No big deal" attitude towards communist and kids wearing Che "I executed thousands for disagreeing with me" Guavera t-shirts disgusting.

Yeah, nothing wrong with communism, it's o.k. to limit peoples potential, to kill them when they speak out against the system, to seize their property or just kill them because they are in the way...NOT!

Funny, if someone wears a Nazi t- shirt, most people would have no problem watching that person get their butt kicked, but would scream travisty if you did it to some little suburban Trotsky in a Che t.
(Not that either should be assulted, just riddiculed.)

PRECISELY! The same folks who can write of a 'Che Lives' shirt as 'No big deal' would get apoplectic at seeing someone wearing something with a Nazi symbol on it.......and that's no defense of Nazis, but making the point that the Nazis weren't the ONLY evil folks who slaughtered MILLIONS in the 20th Century......in fact the Communist body count FAR EXCEEDS that of all the 'Fascists' combined.

 

[Archangel M]

If you were facing charges you'd hope people thought you were innocent until proven guilty though wouldn't you? It wouldn't just be a legal law then. Imagine if all your family, friends, work colleagues etc all had you down as guilty because they are entitled to their opinion rather than carry on what may be a legality but in practice is a reasonable way to think. At any rate it's a better way to think that getting carried away with self rightousness.

I guess it's good Im not his friend, family or co-worker then.

The real fact of the matter is the "HES INNOCENT TILL PROVEN GUILTY" typically only gets whipped out when the person involved is known/liked or supported by the arguer. Otherwise they wouldnt give a damn what some nobody on the net thought.

 

[Cryozombie]

Being an 'Anarchist' is understandable in a 17 year old kid.......it's pathetic when you still buy in to that crap at 38.......it illustrates an utter lack of personal moral development.

:2xBird2: :2xBird2:

I think a lot of people with this attitude need to know what the hell they are talking about before they make these kind of broad sweeping statements.

the 17 year old "dude, anarchy rules!" b.s. is quit different from the organized thought out Ideas that people like Murry Rothband, Tom Hobbes, etc... wrote about.

I don't think that what Monson did was right, it was pretty stupid, and I'd say it falls into the 17 year old mindset catagory... but dont lump all of us in that area just cuz you don't agree with the overall "tenets" of Anarchism. Or, go ahead and do it, just dont cry when people lump "all cops" in the same group as the ones who shove tasers up mens *******s to make them comply.

K?

 

[Tez3]

Oh my you lot really get worked up about things as small as this don't you and you call me a drama queen rofl.
It's a bit of graffiti, it's probably what anarchists do as their mid life crisis instead of buying a motor bike. You'd think he'd attacked the president the way you lot go on, I get you don't like his views, I get that it upsets you that people like me think you are right wing McCarthyites but I also bet none of you know Jeff.
I hope you all enjoyed your little witch hunt, it certainly amused me to see you all get your knickers in a twist lol and I can tell you now that Jeff will certainly be howling with laughter, after all, you've proved him right.

For the record I actually do believe in innocent until proven guilty for everyone and hey make fun of my mother all you like, shows you up not me. To get that nasty in what is basically just an internet discussion is very sad.
Sarcasm and hyperbole? refuges of a lesser mind tbh.

 

[Tez3]

 

[sgtmac_46]

:2xBird2: :2xBird2:

I think a lot of people with this attitude need to know what the hell they are talking about before they make these kind of broad sweeping statements.

the 17 year old "dude, anarchy rules!" b.s. is quit different from the organized thought out Ideas that people like Murry Rothband, Tom Hobbes, etc... wrote about.

I don't think that what Monson did was right, it was pretty stupid, and I'd say it falls into the 17 year old mindset catagory... but dont lump all of us in that area just cuz you don't agree with the overall "tenets" of Anarchism. Or, go ahead and do it, just dont cry when people lump "all cops" in the same group as the ones who shove tasers up mens *******s to make them comply.

K?

Hey, uh.......which mindset are you in if you're tagging buildings with a can of spray paint, genius.........here's a hint.....'dude, anarchy rules!'

As to 'Anarchists' the ideological underpinnings are so convoluted as to make the word for the most part useless.......someone who says 'I'm an anarchist' doesn't explain a damn thing.

 

[sgtmac_46]

Oh my you lot really get worked up about things as small as this don't you and you call me a drama queen rofl.

I'm not the one worked up, or accusing other people of making fun of their mother. This whole argument a mild amusement to me.......I see how worked up your getting in this guys defense and I just figured i'd play along.

It's a bit of graffiti, it's probably what anarchists do as their mid life crisis instead of buying a motor bike. You'd think he'd attacked the president the way you lot go on, I get you don't like his views, I get that it upsets you that people like me think you are right wing McCarthyites but I also bet none of you know Jeff.
I hope you all enjoyed your little witch hunt, it certainly amused me to see you all get your knickers in a twist lol and I can tell you now that Jeff will certainly be howling with laughter, after all, you've proved him right.

'McCarthyites' never killed anyone........but communists certainly did.......and it's obvious reading Monson's views that he's not an 'Anarchist' (regardless of what he calls himself) but is, instead, a communist. He put his views out there to be critiqued.

For the record I actually do believe in innocent until proven guilty for everyone and hey make fun of my mother all you like, shows you up not me. To get that nasty in what is basically just an internet discussion is very sad.
Sarcasm and hyperbole? refuges of a lesser mind tbh.

Yeah, in a court of law, genius.......but not in a 'check your brain at the door' sense......that's just silly. As for your mother......who made fun of your mother?

As for sarcasm and ridicule..........it's the best defense against stupidity known to man.