Mixed Martial Arts and knife work?

Taiji Rebel said:
The original poster was referring to sports-based practitioners. And the term MMA definitely refers to a sport. It's strange how these kind of martial arts and sports are often confused with the practice of self-defence.
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He did say “or”. But with that said, here is a quote from one “mma” website
“Does MMA work for self-defense? The simple answer is YES. Learning MMA is one of the best things that you can do to defense yourself, gain confidence, and become a walking weapon….”
I think that you are putting “mma” in a smaller box than I am.
 
Taiji Rebel said:
The original poster was referring to sports-based practitioners. And the term MMA definitely refers to a sport. It's strange how these kind of martial arts and sports are often confused with the practice of self-defence.
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There is no confusion. These kinds of sports are the practice of self defence.

Someone literally attacks you. And you defend yourself.
 
Holmejr said:
He did say “or”. But with that said, here is a quote from one “mma” website
“Does MMA work for self-defense? The simple answer is YES. Learning MMA is one of the best things that you can do to defense yourself, gain confidence, and become a walking weapon….”
I think that you are putting “mma” in a smaller box than I am.
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Real knife attacks are vicious and frenzied. Most often victims are not even aware a knife was involved. They just get stabbed and die. MMA training is perfect for preparing for MMA competitions. Yes, it can get you fit and strong too but most hard sports training can do the same. Does it really prepare you for real self-defense situations though? I think not!
 
drop bear said:
The practice of self defence is always done with rules.

It is not always a contest which is generally where the issue lies.

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My error was in the use of the word practice. Apologies for that. Martial Arts and combat sports are often believed to be good ways to prepare for defending oneself. Yes, the techniques from these sports/arts can be applied in real life and used to counter an attack in some cases. But the video you have shared is not indicative of a real-life knife attack. If you believe this is adequate training for reality then I am not sure how to respond. Okay, I'll finish with the following comment. Rory Miller and authors of a similar ilk are definitely worth studying if you, or anyone else here, is really looking to understand true self-defence concepts and training methods.
 
Taiji Rebel said:
My error was in the use of the word practice. Apologies for that. Martial Arts and combat sports are often believed to be good ways to prepare for defending oneself. Yes, the techniques from these sports/arts can be applied in real life and used to counter an attack in some cases. But the video you have shared is not indicative of a real-life knife attack. If you believe this is adequate training for reality then I am not sure how to respond. Okay, I'll finish with the following comment. Rory Miller and authors of a similar ilk are definitely worth studying if you, or anyone else here, is really looking to understand true self-defence concepts and training methods.
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Tim kennedy is of similar ilk. That is why I used that video.

sheepdogresponse.com

About Tim Kennedy

sheepdogresponse.com sheepdogresponse.com

Exept he practices what he preaches. Where trying to find evidence of Rory Miller actually fighting anyone is almost impossible.

And that is the difference in these methodologies. One is theoretical and one is practical.
 
There is a program called adopt a cop. That helps train police on what is basically civilian BJJ. They basically let cops join the local BJJ school.

bjj-world.com

Research shows 48% less injuries to police officers training in Jiu-Jitsu within an "Adopt a Cop" program - BJJ World

Police departments across the USA implementing Jiu-Jitsu training through the “Adopt a Cop” program With the light of attention now focused on police departments following public outcry over police violence, more and more agencies are recognizing that their cops require more training in how to...
bjj-world.com bjj-world.com

And it is massively successful from a saftey stand point.

Which for someone like myself who has done industry specific defence training is not at all suprising. (But kind of nice to see this stuff confirmed.)

And a reflection on the short comings of the methodology of those sorts of specific programs.

And it boils down to the people training do not develop the depth of knowledge about the subject without the refereed contested nature of combat sports.
 
Taiji Rebel said:
The original poster was referring to sports-based practitioners. And the term MMA definitely refers to a sport. It's strange how these kind of martial arts and sports are often confused with the practice of self-defence.
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You don’t see any overlap?
 
Taiji Rebel said:
Real knife attacks are vicious and frenzied. Most often victims are not even aware a knife was involved. They just get stabbed and die. MMA training is perfect for preparing for MMA competitions. Yes, it can get you fit and strong too but most hard sports training can do the same. Does it really prepare you for real self-defense situations though? I think not!
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Except for when they aren’t.

I’m not trying to downplay the dangers of a knife attack, nor the often dismal training that passes for “knife defense”. But nothing is absolute. Not every knife attack is vicious and frenzied nor done by a highly experienced career criminal.
 
Taiji Rebel said:
Real knife attacks are vicious and frenzied. Most often victims are not even aware a knife was involved. They just get stabbed and die. MMA training is perfect for preparing for MMA competitions. Yes, it can get you fit and strong too but most hard sports training can do the same. Does it really prepare you for real self-defense situations though? I think not!
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So if by chance of a skilled mma fighter were to take up knife fighting would his mma be a hinderance? “Wait, i can’t kick another man there, it’s breaking the rules!!”
 
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Taiji Rebel said:
Real knife attacks are vicious and frenzied. Most often victims are not even aware a knife was involved. They just get stabbed and die.
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I've treated hundreds of people for stab wounds. They all knew they were stabbed. A few didn't notice right away, because the wounds were pretty trivial. The vast majority not only survived, they were never in any real danger of dying.
Hyperbole and dramatic claims don't make for good discussion.
 
Dirty Dog said:
I've treated hundreds of people for stab wounds. They all knew they were stabbed. A few didn't notice right away, because the wounds were pretty trivial. The vast majority not only survived, they were never in any real danger of dying.
Hyperbole and dramatic claims don't make for good discussion.
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I treated a guy who didn't know he was stabbed.

And he had a sucking chest wound.
 
Carrying a knife comes with a certain amount of responsibility. If you have to defend yourself do you automatically draw the knife and escalate?
Hopefully not. But what if you don’t? What if things go bad, you’re on the ground and more opponents jump in? Or what if your first opponent escalates in some way?

If you haven’t practiced accessing your knife in a ground scramble, do you really want a real-deal self defense scenario to be the first time you do?
The amount of space you have is different. Where your elbows go will be different. Your angles of opportunity will be different. How you use your vision will be different. Your draw will be different, most times much different.

IF a person trains in knife work, ground fighting with an edged weapon should be included as part of it.
 
drop bear said:
I treated a guy who didn't know he was stabbed.

And he had a sucking chest wound.
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I've treated people who claimed they didn't know they were stabbed. I've treated people who insisted they just woke up with a knife sticking out of them. Unless there were a lot of substances involved, they were lying. You may rarely find that one in a million who never noticed, but it's pretty silly to base your argument on that.

And just an FYI... a sucking chest wound, initially, is one of those minor wounds I mentioned. It only becomes a big problem when the chest cavity gets a lot of air in it, and that takes time. Assuming the person was stabbed with a regular knife and not a machete or an axe, it's going to take a few minutes before they really notice any difficulty breathing.
 
Dirty Dog said:
I've treated people who claimed they didn't know they were stabbed. I've treated people who insisted they just woke up with a knife sticking out of them. Unless there were a lot of substances involved, they were lying. You may rarely find that one in a million who never noticed, but it's pretty silly to base your argument on that.

And just an FYI... a sucking chest wound, initially, is one of those minor wounds I mentioned. It only becomes a big problem when the chest cavity gets a lot of air in it, and that takes time. Assuming the person was stabbed with a regular knife and not a machete or an axe, it's going to take a few minutes before they really notice any difficulty breathing.
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This guy wasn't lying and didn't know. And really didn't look at all happy by the time an ambulance arrived to get him.

And I don't base my arguments on any amount of anecdotal evidence.
 
Dirty Dog said:
I've treated people who claimed they didn't know they were stabbed. I've treated people who insisted they just woke up with a knife sticking out of them. Unless there were a lot of substances involved, they were lying. You may rarely find that one in a million who never noticed, but it's pretty silly to base your argument on that.
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A story I got from my dad, while he was an officer in the NYC projects.
He showed up to a call, where they missed whatever happened, but came upon a guy that was shot in the leg. They're conversation went something like:
Victim "Get me to a hospital, I've been shot!
LEO "What happened? Who shot you? Similar questions"
Victim "Nobody shot me!"
LEO "Wait..you just said you were shot"
Victim "Can't you see my leg? There's a bullet in it! Take me to the hospital!"
LEO "So you were shot?"
Victim "Nobody shot me, aren't you listening?"
LEO "So if you weren't shot you don't need to go to the hospital"
Victim "Of course I need to go. There's a bullet in my leg."

Per my dad, this continued for about five minutes going round and round before the ambulance showed up.
 
Martial arts are not designed as modern day defense systems. MMA, Boxing and other combat sports are competition-based arts. They have very little to do with learning how to defend yourself outside of the gym. Inside the ring/cage these systems are perfectly suited to learning to defend against your opponent. When the Gracies first arrived on the scene, the martial arts industry started promoting ground-fighting and grappling for the street. At the time, a friend of mine wondered how effective all this really was. Jujutusu, for example, was first used and promoted for self-defense back in the early 1900s. When you look into the history of the sport and martial arts, you can see how everything goes around in circles.
 
Taiji Rebel said:
.... They have very little to do with learning how to defend yourself outside of the gym. Inside the ring/cage these systems are perfectly suited to learning to defend against your opponent. ...
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Is there any street rule against hiting somebody in the face (in selfdefence situation) with hook, jab, uppercut etc.? Like a boxer?
Is there any street rule against kicking somebody (in selfdefence situation) with highkick, lowkick, middlekick, tornado kick, qm kick etc.? Like sport kickboxer boxer, sport thai boxer, sport katarekas etc?
Is there any street rule against taking somebodys down (in selfdefence situation) with shoots, throws, slams? Like wrestlers, judokas, jujiteiros, sambists, etc?
Is there any street rule against choking somebodys out (in selfdefence situation)? Like judokas, jujiteiros, sambists?
Or maybe there is a rule against using elbows and knees?
Or being fit, strong and athletic? Or have a good timig?

There is no referee "in da streetz"? Good, I can maul the robber as long as I want and nobody will stop me :)
 
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PLEASE READ: regarding the updated knife training links...

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