Michael Savage

[Kacey]

Do you think that is a large number of people?

A single misinformed person is one too many. Too many people think that those with college degrees (no matter what the degree is in), and celebrities know everything - why else do people care what celebrities think about elections? And too many of the people who care what celebrities think will take what Michael Savage said as gospel, simply because he said it - to the great detriment of those affected by autism, either directly or indirectly.

Do you really care what those morons think?

Personally? Not at all. Professionally? I must; as a special education teacher I see more autistic children, and more of the autism spectrum, than most people - and I must differentiate for my colleagues, too many of whom hold opinions similar to Michael Savage's, between those who are truly autistic, or have ADHD, or are schizophrenic, or one of any number of other developmental, biochemical, learning, visual, auditory, and/or metabolic disorders (along with those who have rotten home lives, significant cultural differences, or other explanations for their behaviors) and those who are just normal, run-of-the-mill adolescents who'd rather talk in class than listen to the teacher.

I have to convince teachers who want kids to all sit down, shut up, and absorb the information presented (regardless of whether that information is presented in an appropriate format for the student or not), and regurgitate it back (regardless of whether the method of regurgitation is appropriate to the student or not) - and I have to do it to people who listen to Michael Savage and those like him, and want to know why little Johnny gets special treatment because he has a diagnosis of Asberger's (when, in the teacher's mind, little Johnny is just a bratty kid prone to tantrums), and why little Janey gets special treatment because she has dyslexia (when, in the teacher's mind, little Janey could read if she'd just work harder), and why little Joey gets special treatment because his mother took him off his medication again (when, in the teacher's mind, little Joey shouldn't be in school at all if he's going to act like that - the voices in his head notwithstanding), and why little Tranh gets special treatment because she still thinks in Korean (when, in the teacher's mind, if she can't speak English, she shouldn't be in the class at all) ... I could go on, but perhaps by now you've gotten the idea.

And then, of course, there are the parents who object to having little Johnny and little Janey and little Joey, and even little Tranh (who's wonderfully well behaved... because she's too shy not to be; no one around her speaks her language) in class with their perfect little darlings, except when having them around provides an excuse for their perfect little darlings doing poorly; after all, they don't have Special Education teachers modifying their work, or English as a Second Language teachers providing extra help - that must be why the failed; it couldn't possibly be because their little darlings don't do homework, don't bring school supplies, stay up playing video games until 2 am - nope, must be because they aren't getting all those special services.

So, do I care what "those morons" think? Only when it affects me personally or professionally - which it does all the time.

 

[Empty Hands]

While Savage may have hurt some people's feelings, he has drawn a lot attention to the "cause" of autism - you can't buy this kind of publicity.

The ends do not justify the means. His comments could have inadvertently cured cancer, and what he did would still be wrong.

 

[arnisador]

The ends do not justify the means. His comments could have inadvertently cured cancer, and what he did would still be wrong.

Eh...you know, if he had cured cancer, I'd have given him a pass.

It seems he meant to comment on those who physician-shop for designer diagnoses. As a college prof. we see it all the time: Johnny has a learning disability, so he gets 50% extra time on tests. Mikey is just plain dumb, so he doesn't. Sometimes Johnny really does have dyslexia, Asperger's Syndrome, traumatic brain injury, etc. (yes I've had all of those and more) and deserves a break. Sometimes Johnny's rich parents have bought him bonus time by finding a physician willing to sign anything to get them out of his office. Sometimes Johnny has problems for severe that 300% extra time wouldn't help him and shouldn't be studying this kind of material in college.

Bringing attention to the issue of paid-for diagnoses is fine. How he did it left much to be desired. I have a little sympathy for those who must speak in real time without prepared notes, but it sounds like he makes his living being a jerk for those who like to listen to that sort of thing. His listeners aren't the sort of people who will change the world, so what does it matter what he says to them? I presume he's paid to preach to the choir.

 

[DustinJolley]

Well, look at the fact that Savage is almost universally despised by Liberals, Conservatives, Moderates, Republicans, Democrats, Independents, Bill O'Reilly, Al Franken, Sean Hannity, Keith Olbermann, etc...

 

[shesulsa]

Aflac has pulled their ads from his show as has Radio Shack and Sears. Anheiser-Busch states they have never advertised during his show.

Supertalk - a network of conservative talk radio stations - has dropped him stating his comments border on "hate speech."

One article I read today rang SO VERY TRUE for me; if we would all just follow the lesson we were taught in kindergarten - ignore him and he'll stop it - might be good advice ... but the problem is so very many people just don't do anything and apathy is the seed of permission.

 

[DustinJolley]

Hate speech, I think is an understatement. This guy's a nut!

 

[DavidCC]

Hate speech is a term for speech intended to degrade, intimidate, or incite violence or prejudicial action against a person or group of people

I believe his intent was to draw attention to the problems of over-diagnosis and over-medication of children. Which is exactly what has happened...

Of course in order to measure his intent all you have to go on are his statements. Once can beleive everything he says, nothing he says, or pick and choose statement by statement and say "this one he means" "this one is a lie". If you are picking and choosing which statements to take at face value and which to call false , how can you be sure you are not making that determination in order to support your own pre-existing opinions?

Which gets to the very weakness of hate-speech laws, they are judged based on the intent of the speaker, which cannot be objectively known.

 

[shesulsa]

I believe his intent was to draw attention to the problems of over-diagnosis and over-medication of children. Which is exactly what has happened...

Of course in order to measure his intent all you have to go on are his statements. Once can beleive everything he says, nothing he says, or pick and choose statement by statement and say "this one he means" "this one is a lie". If you are picking and choosing which statements to take at face value and which to call false , how can you be sure you are not making that determination in order to support your own pre-existing opinions?

Which gets to the very weakness of hate-speech laws, they are judged based on the intent of the speaker, which cannot be objectively known.

Okay ... but if I want to make the point that ... say ... McDonald's is bad for you, it would be completely irresponsible of me to carry on about the kind of people who work AT McDonald's. It's a tangent opinion that has absolutely nothing to do with any kind of rational argument about the quality of McDonald's cuisine. My point would be completely overshadowed by my opinion of the toothless, obese and pubescent nimrods who purposely insert pubic hair, spittle and unmentionable bodily fluids into your food.

Capice?

 

[DustinJolley]

That's very gross, shesula! Lol.

 

[DavidCC]

Okay ... but if I want to make the point that ... say ... McDonald's is bad for you, it would be completely irresponsible of me to carry on about the kind of people who work AT McDonald's. It's a tangent opinion that has absolutely nothing to do with any kind of rational argument about the quality of McDonald's cuisine. My point would be completely overshadowed by my opinion of the toothless, obese and pubescent nimrods who purposely insert pubic hair, spittle and unmentionable bodily fluids into your food.

Capice?

well, get a few million people to listen to your radio show and then we'll see who knows how to draw attention to an issue...

cmopared to all the good-natured care-bearism that autism support organizations have been using, Savage's remarks generated much more attention for your cause.

If that offends you, then ask all the orgs in your sig to send back the money they got from people who gave in response to this controversy.

To say out of one side of your mouth "this is terrbile he should be removed from the air" and "thanks for your donation" out of the other is pure hypocrisy.

 

[tshadowchaser]

personal opinion but comparing McDonalds food to anything is gross and possibly an insult to that which is referenced

 

[tshadowchaser]

I believe his intent was to draw attention to the problems of over-diagnosis and over-medication of children. Which is exactly what has happened...

Now I may agree that way to many children are over-diagnosed, over medicated, and possibly should just have had a good swat on the back side once in a while to help them pay attention, but that dose not include those with real mental problems. Some of those diagnosed with autism truly have autism and they have needs way beyond a spoiled brat or a child that may have problems that are not autistic. The problem i needs much study, even if we have come a long way in the last few years to understand the problem. Children suffering from any learning disability need help.

Again I will say I think many are misdiagnosed but those with a real problem do not need to be poked fun of and the problem should not become part of any hate speech

 

[shesulsa]

well, get a few million people to listen to your radio show and then we'll see who knows how to draw attention to an issue...

cmopared to all the good-natured care-bearism that autism support organizations have been using, Savage's remarks generated much more attention for your cause.

If that offends you, then ask all the orgs in your sig to send back the money they got from people who gave in response to this controversy.

To say out of one side of your mouth "this is terrbile he should be removed from the air" and "thanks for your donation" out of the other is pure hypocrisy.

Ah. So ... if someone calls me a slut, I should shut up and be grateful for the press? Because no press is bad press?

Those links have been in my signature since April, friend. I have not used Savage's idiocy to solicit donations for autism - your accusation of such is just as irresponsible and incorrect as Savage's upon parents of autistic children - nor will I.

 

[arnisador]

I have not used Savage's idiocy to solicit donations for autism

That isn't what he said. He said that surely such a surge in donations surely has occurred.

your accusation of such is just as irresponsible and incorrect as Savage's upon parents of autistic children

That isn't what he said. He was attempting to attack the parents of non-autistic children who are, in his opinion, gaming the system. He did so a in rude and poorly phrased way that didn't even clearly make his own point, but he wasn't targeting the parents of actually autistic children.

 

[DustinJolley]

Actually, he was attacking the parents of autistic children. "In 99 percent of cases, it's a brat who's PARENTS haven't told the kid to cut the ACT out." That somebody doesn't find that offensive is insulting and stupid. Harsh I know, but as a person with Asperger's, I think I know what I'm talking about.

 

[arnisador]

Actually, he was attacking the parents of autistic children.

Actually, that statement is false. He was attacking parents of non-autistic children who seek a diagnosis of autism (or similar) in hopes of obtaining financial support, medication, etc. He may not have done it well, but seeing the comment sin context makes it clear. When you quote "In 99 percent of cases, it's a brat who's PARENTS haven't told the kid to cut the ACT out." you don't know what "It" refers to.

I'm loathe to defend him but his opponents are now guilty of mischaracterization also.

That somebody doesn't find that offensive is insulting and stupid.

That you would tell others what they should find offensive, and label them "stupid" if they disagree with you, is insulting and ignorant.

 

[shesulsa]

Actually, that statement is false. He was attacking parents of non-autistic children who seek a diagnosis of autism (or similar) in hopes of obtaining financial support, medication, etc. He may not have done it well, but seeing the comment sin context makes it clear. When you quote "In 99 percent of cases, it's a brat who's PARENTS haven't told the kid to cut the ACT out." you don't know what "It" refers to.

Now that's using semantics to defend the tactics - and I'm sorry, but I'm sick and tired ... no matter the cause ... of the use of this kind of tactic to incite emotions to sway opinions and bring about neglect. You're a mathematician and surely you would loathe to prove that 99% of the people who show up at the welfare line with children they want labeled autistic 1) actually want the diagnosis and/or 2) have a child who doesn't fit the diagnosis.

I'm loathe to defend him but his opponents are now guilty of mischaracterization also.

That you would tell others what they should find offensive, and label them "stupid" if they disagree with you, is insulting and ignorant.

I can't tell others what to feel or think ... but I damn sure will tell people what I as the parent of an autistic person - who neither wanted the diagnosis nor GOT ANY DAMN HELP FROM THE GOVERNMENT FOR IT - feels and thinks about this kind of tactic.

This diagnosis was hard to get at one time and help for it even harder. There are, quite unfortunately, many people who still feel very much the way Savage put it, Arni ... that "there's nothing wrong with that kid a good spanking wouldn't cure." I heard it from my in-laws ... and I think that 15 years, several physical attacks and an arson attempt later they still feel that way.

I suppose it's hard to comprehend the damage the Savage blathering actually does to people, their families, chances for recovery and support unless you're walking in autistic moccasins.

*sigh*

 

[DustinJolley]

Look, arnisador, I'm probably one of the biggest Conservatives on this forum. However, that doesn't mean I necessarily agree with anything that "Dr." Savage says. I probably agree with you less than I agree with him on political matters, but who cares? And how exactly were his hateful comments about autism taken out of context? You still haven't explained that to me.

 

[Marginal]

Actually, that statement is false. He was attacking parents of non-autistic children who seek a diagnosis of autism (or similar) in hopes of obtaining financial support, medication, etc. He may not have done it well, but seeing the comment sin context makes it clear. When you quote "In 99 percent of cases, it's a brat who's PARENTS haven't told the kid to cut the ACT out." you don't know what "It" refers to.

I'm loathe to defend him but his opponents are now guilty of mischaracterization also.

The problem with the Savage quote is, stat's meaningless. 99% of misdiagnosed kids? What a staggeringly large percentage! How many fall under that percent? Dunno. That's not important.

 

[DavidCC]

I have not used Savage's idiocy to solicit donations for autism ... nor will I.

Do you lead those organizations? if not, can you get similar pledges from those that do? Of course not! it would be ridiculous for them to turn away money that they need so badly to help kids who need help.