Mexico: Two-thirds of Mexican migrants undocumented

[5-0 Kenpo]

Well, that's precisely why I qualified it, but who commits the greater crime here, the employee, or the employer?

Does it matter? They are both doing something illegal. Punish them both.

ANd they don't act in ways that make millions of their citizens leave. The balme for that rests strictly on the shoulders of those who pay them-many of whom are corporations like Walmart, Tyson Foods, and Swift &Co.

That is a very simplistic argument to make. There are a multitude of reasons, including the one you suggest, that Mexicans come to the U.S.A., including abject poverty in Mexico, availabilty of illegal jobs in the U.S., free benefits (including welfare, school for children, etc.), the lack of any citizenary responsibility.

 

[elder999]

Does it matter? They are both doing something illegal. Punish them both.



That is a very simplistic argument to make. There are a multitude of reasons, including the one you suggest, that Mexicans come to the U.S.A., including abject poverty in Mexico, availabilty of illegal jobs in the U.S., free benefits (including welfare, school for children, etc.), the lack of any citizenary responsibility.

THe immigrants are punished-they are incarcerated and deported. This is the extent of what our government can do to them, and what it does. I've yet to hear anyone suggest that they be imprisoned, and thus cost us more in tax dollars, but a couple of ore corporate built, owned and run prisons might just turn that corner for us.....

And it's not a simplistic argument at all-we've always had illegal immigrants and "guest workers," for all those reasons you outlined, but it's only become a "problem" and a clarion call issue for the right in the past couple of years.Why?Prior to NAFTA,they'd come up here, cut my grapes, pick my apples, take my money, and go back to Mexico...no problem for anyone.....now it's different.

 

[Big Don]

Anyone who thinks they all used to go "home to Mexico" doesn't live in a border state.
There are Mexican nationals here, who, except for having caught an amnesty would still be illegal and have been here thirty or forty years.

 

[elder999]

Anyone who thinks they all used to go "home to Mexico" doesn't live in a border state.
There are Mexican nationals here, who, except for having caught an amnesty would still be illegal and have been here thirty or forty years.

Yeah that's funny. I live,and grow grapes, apples, apricots, pumpkins, corn and peaches-among others- in a border state, but hey-what do I know?

 

[Big Don]

Yeah that's funny. I live,and grow grapes, apples, apricots, pumpkins, corn and peaches-among others- in a border state, but hey-what do I know?

You do, and you believe they go home...to Mexico? Hey, did you know gullible isn't in the dictionary?

 

[elder999]

You do, and you believe they go home...to Mexico? Hey, did you know gullible isn't in the dictionary?

No, I don't believe that-but I knew it to be true before NAFTA-hell, on more than one occasion, I drove them there myself.

 

[5-0 Kenpo]

THe immigrants are punished-they are incarcerated and deported. This is the extent of what our government can do to them, and what it does. I've yet to hear anyone suggest that they be imprisoned, and thus cost us more in tax dollars, but a couple of ore corporate built, owned and run prisons might just turn that corner for us.....

And it's not a simplistic argument at all-we've always had illegal immigrants and "guest workers," for all those reasons you outlined, but it's only become a "problem" and a clarion call issue for the right in the past couple of years.Why?Prior to NAFTA,they'd come up here, cut my grapes, pick my apples, take my money, and go back to Mexico...no problem for anyone.....now it's different.

Ok. you argue against yourself here. First you say that the reason for illegal immigration "rests strictly on the shoulders of those who pay them-many of whom are corporations like Walmart, Tyson Foods, and Swift &Co." But when I bring up other issues that cause illegal immigration, you then say "we've always had illegal immigrants and "guest workers," for all those reasons you outlined". Which is it? You can't have it both ways.

And it has been a problem for those in border states for many years, not just recently. I remember 20 years ago when I was a child my mother arguing against illegal immigrants. I also remember at 15 being turned down for a part-time job at a video store because I didn't know how to speak Spanish.

The reason it has become a problem in so-called "recent years" is mainly two-fold. First, 9/11 and the problems with immigration enforcement, both legal and illegal, that have allowed many people from many different countries to come here and cause a multitide of problems, from terrorism to crime to job stealing.

The second, is that now the problems of the border states have spread throughout the country. No longer is it just Arizona, California, Nevada, and Texas suffering, but more northern states are sufferin the same problems that we have there.

 

[thardey]

I have a friend who has been in America both legally, on a visa, and illegally, when it expired. Now he's back in Mexico, doing work for the poor.

We went down to see him a couple of years ago, (we went to the mountains of Oaxaca) and most of the young men there had their sights set on coming to the U.S., so they could make money and send it home to their families. All of them were trying to save up enough money ($3000 at the time) to pay the "coyotes" to smuggle them across the border. We (including our friend who had gotten a visa) would encourage them to get visas, and come legally, and spend the money on a plane ticket and fly to America, or save it and take a bus. No one we talked to even knew that it was possible to get a visa. One kid was over halfway to his Bachelor's degree, and he still wanted to migrate as soon as possible. We told him to get his degree, then apply for a work visa. He had never heard of that before. We asked him what the (state-run) school was teaching him about emigrating, and he said that they taught that the only way into the U.S. was by sneaking across the border, and that once you get there, you get "free" health care, because they'll treat you even if you can't pay.

It's in the Mexican government's best interest to have illegal immigrants in the U.S., because they generate more money (as a whole, not per person), without paying income taxes, or social security, and most of that money gets sent to Mexico, which stimulates the Mexican economy. That's why they don't whine about Americans crossing their borders -- we bring money with us, and spend it in Mexico.

I'm also willing to bet that a large part of the Mexican "border patrol" gets kickbacks from the coyotes, and so they are willing to help them get money. Bribes are extremely common in Mexico, and that can be a lucrative source of income.