I have to say it was an interesting and fruitful meet up, Zeny was in town for some family business and we arranged a face to face meeting, primarily for me to experience his style of tai chi, with all that had gone done here in these forums I was more than curious how it would feel and work against a Chen style 'wrestling' approach.
The short summary is that despite the deviation from what most of us practice in our tai chi, his style definitely works. I have come to appreciate what he has shown me and I think it is never bad to learn from anyone who has anything good to share.
Ok, the slightly longer breakdown is as follows:
Zeny's lineage is from the Cheng Man Ching style, characterized by the 37 step 'short form' derived from Yang Cheng Fu's 108 form. The stark difference is the extremes to which this lineage emphasizes on being 'empty', or as Zeny puts it: Extreme Yang comes from Extreme Yin... My own experience from my teacher is more of the interplay of Yin and Yang, interchanging fullness with emptiness when pushing hands.
I think most of the differences in opinions in the threads that Zeny has posted stems from the descriptions of concepts, such as his 'no force pushes', 'equal distribution of qi(chi) instead of sinking', not using peng jin etc. Some of these contradictions I think (and I did spend hours pondering after our meeting) are semantic in nature, such as his 'no force' pushes aren't no force to the receiver, but it certainly would feel like 'no force' to the giver; that just describes the the sensations, not the physical reality.
The equal distribution of qi was more interesting, Zeny did demonstrate this and I did it myself to experience the difference, and I have to say there is a real difference in the quality of balance and it did improve my resistance to pushes. His style's approach is rooted in defense, in that he maintains his body equilibrium and quality steadfastly within his 'sphere' and his attacks occur when his sphere invades yours. My own experience of sinking qi is based on the approach of having an absolutely solid base with a flexible and changing top. In my opinion, his style's peng jin is to be found in this equilibrium concept, which is not as clearly felt externally.
Zeny has over 5 years' experience while I have less than 2 (at least where push hands is concerned), so it is not exactly a meeting of equals. In our short exchange, Zeny has bested me in all my efforts and I have to give him his due recognition, however, I still think his approach may have a bit of deficiency against a more experienced and better trained Chen stylist who can disrupt his sphere and attack his legs. Of course no style of approach is perfect but Zeny's is definitely more than viable and should be appreciated for what it is, despite the perceived incredulous-ness of his descriptions on the forums.
My account is based on very limited experience, as I am no more than a beginner in tai chi, and of course these are but my own opinions and understanding, so I do not wish to be seen to be speaking from a point of any authority.
The short summary is that despite the deviation from what most of us practice in our tai chi, his style definitely works. I have come to appreciate what he has shown me and I think it is never bad to learn from anyone who has anything good to share.
Ok, the slightly longer breakdown is as follows:
Zeny's lineage is from the Cheng Man Ching style, characterized by the 37 step 'short form' derived from Yang Cheng Fu's 108 form. The stark difference is the extremes to which this lineage emphasizes on being 'empty', or as Zeny puts it: Extreme Yang comes from Extreme Yin... My own experience from my teacher is more of the interplay of Yin and Yang, interchanging fullness with emptiness when pushing hands.
I think most of the differences in opinions in the threads that Zeny has posted stems from the descriptions of concepts, such as his 'no force pushes', 'equal distribution of qi(chi) instead of sinking', not using peng jin etc. Some of these contradictions I think (and I did spend hours pondering after our meeting) are semantic in nature, such as his 'no force' pushes aren't no force to the receiver, but it certainly would feel like 'no force' to the giver; that just describes the the sensations, not the physical reality.
The equal distribution of qi was more interesting, Zeny did demonstrate this and I did it myself to experience the difference, and I have to say there is a real difference in the quality of balance and it did improve my resistance to pushes. His style's approach is rooted in defense, in that he maintains his body equilibrium and quality steadfastly within his 'sphere' and his attacks occur when his sphere invades yours. My own experience of sinking qi is based on the approach of having an absolutely solid base with a flexible and changing top. In my opinion, his style's peng jin is to be found in this equilibrium concept, which is not as clearly felt externally.
Zeny has over 5 years' experience while I have less than 2 (at least where push hands is concerned), so it is not exactly a meeting of equals. In our short exchange, Zeny has bested me in all my efforts and I have to give him his due recognition, however, I still think his approach may have a bit of deficiency against a more experienced and better trained Chen stylist who can disrupt his sphere and attack his legs. Of course no style of approach is perfect but Zeny's is definitely more than viable and should be appreciated for what it is, despite the perceived incredulous-ness of his descriptions on the forums.
My account is based on very limited experience, as I am no more than a beginner in tai chi, and of course these are but my own opinions and understanding, so I do not wish to be seen to be speaking from a point of any authority.
