Mc Dojo

[ARNIS PRINCESS]

What do people consider a McDojo?

 

[Spud]

Start with the search function and look for mcdojo in the title.

Many threads on this with different interpretations.

 

[MJS]

What do people consider a McDojo?

1- A place where you can go and the instructor is more interested in taking your money instead of the knowledge he can give you.

2- A belt factory.

3- A school that has 10 yr. olds wearing a 2nd degree black belt.

4-A school that offers the chance to have students open other branches of the school.. The only problem is that when its offered to a guy whos a green belt, but after he goes through the " Instructor Certification Course" he, overnight, becomes a black belt.

5- A place where you can go and you get your black belt in less than a year.

I'm sure that there are more, but those are the only ones that came to mind at the time.

Mike

 

[Spud]

Good Summary MJS

 

[tshadowchaser]

Green belts poseing as black belts and selling rank every 2 months is a verry good discription of a McDojo.
Instructors like those above that can not give you their history and the history of their art is also a good indication But not always (there are always exceptions).
I am also carefull of schools that teach Bjj, tkd, shotokan, kung fu, tai chi, and arobics, etc., etc., all under the same roof. Yes, some may be ligit, but many are of the quality and knowledge as the first mentioned.

 

[hedgehogey]

www.bullshido.net is dedicated to rooting out mcdojos

 

[dubljay]

www.bullshido.net is dedicated to rooting out mcdojos

Right on.... there should be more of these organizations.

 

[auxprix]

It's like profanity. I can't define it but I know it when I see it. They tend to have certain things in common.
1) They are more concerned with business and customer service than the art.
If your master doesn't yell at you every once and a while, you may be in a McDojo. Notice that I said MAY, there are nice instructors out there. What i mean to say by this is that often instructors of McDojos are content with you practicing bad technique as opposed to possibly offending you and loosing your business.
2) They are a part of a large conglomerate.
Not always the case, but if your studio is part of a network of many studios within the nation, it MAY be a McDojo.
3) There is alot of emphasis on promotion, but the place of practice doesn't respect its power to award new belts.
I know too many "karate blackbelts" who have no buisiness being a blackbelt. They kept getting promoted on a basis of the time they've put in, not what they've really learned. I hear that some/many dojos charge for promotions. I personally haven't been to one that does, so I don't know how many partake in this. If your studio has alot of pretty colored belts that they make you buy every few months, you may be in a McDojo.

Disclamer: If your studio does any of these, I don't mean to say that it is a McDojo. I am trying to say that this seems to be a trend among what I consider to be a Dojo that is more interested in making money than preserving the art.

I'm going to add a question to this forum. Has anyone ever practiced at a place that THEY would call a McDojo? If so, please tell us a bit about your experience.

 

[dubljay]

I'm going to add a question to this forum. Has anyone ever practiced at a place that THEY would call a McDojo? If so, please tell us a bit about your experience.

I haven't practiced at one... I showed up to see what it was all about didnt like it... very hokey and unporfessional and left after only 5 mins.

 

[loki09789]

Green belts poseing as black belts and selling rank every 2 months is a verry good discription of a McDojo.
Instructors like those above that can not give you their history and the history of their art is also a good indication But not always (there are always exceptions).
I am also carefull of schools that teach Bjj, tkd, shotokan, kung fu, tai chi, and arobics, etc., etc., all under the same roof. Yes, some may be ligit, but many are of the quality and knowledge as the first mentioned.

Definitely. When there is a 'one stop shopping' impression on the window list of arts but there is only one or two instructors it makes the experienced scratch their heads. I met a guy who was a 'mcdojoist' with one only one student and using a college rec room. I asked him what he style he taught and he said "all styles". At that point I had to walk away.

THe other problem is the lack of cultural/stylistic respect. I know that terms like Karate/Kung Fu and in some areas Kenpo are common usage terms in the general public but it is better (though not cheaper on the sign costs) to either use the style/system name or "Martial Arts." It is better presentation/citation/accuracy and it reduces the "well, we really do this that or the other, but we call it Karate/KungFu/Kenpo because that is what the public knows... people know what 'Martial Arts' means too.

 

[RHD]

I know that terms like Karate/Kung Fu and in some areas Kenpo are common usage terms in the general public but it is better (though not cheaper on the sign costs) to either use the style/system name or "Martial Arts." It is better presentation/citation/accuracy and it reduces the "well, we really do this that or the other, but we call it Karate/KungFu/Kenpo because that is what the public knows... people know what 'Martial Arts' means too.

I think calling your art by any name other than what it is, is shady. In my town, there is at least one TKD school that has Tae Kwon Do, HapKiDo, and Kung Fu on thier sign out front. Funny thing is they only teach Tae Kwon Do. This is misleading and bad business. Better to simply list your school as "martial arts", and then get into stylistic names inside the training hall.

Mike

 

[tshadowchaser]

If the instructor belongs to 4 or 5 organisations and gives rank to the heads of those organisations and they inturn rank him with in their systems you may be in a McDojo

 

[ARNIS PRINCESS]

Why was my thread moved? I wanted to know what the FMAers consider a Mc Dojo. :disgust:

 

[Flatlander]

Why was my thread moved? I wanted to know what the FMAers consider a Mc Dojo. :disgust:

Why would FMAers have, on the average, any differring opinion of what constitutes a McDojo than any other MAist?

 

[ARNIS PRINCESS]

Why would FMAers have, on the average, any differring opinion of what constitutes a McDojo than any other MAist?

Everyone has their own interpretation of what a McDojo is and seeing that the FMAers were using it in the spreading the art thread, under the FMA forum, I wondered what their interpretation was? Putting it in the general forum takes it away from the group of people I was asking. Personally, I only look at a couple of the forums and the only reason that I noticed that it was moved was because someone replied to my post and it wasn't where I originally posted it.

 

[kenpo tiger]

Hi Arnis Princess. I didn't realize the original post was in our forum, but I guess one of the moderators felt it needed to be 'out there' for the guys, too. I think that the interpretations offered by a lot of them are true. My first two schools fell into some or all of the categories, and that's why I found myself at a high rank in each place and feeling like I couldn't 'strut my stuff' if I had to - for whatever reason. In both places I attained my rank by time in, not really by knowledge of the material, although I worked hard and wanted to be a good martial artist. I've posted elsewhere about one of the schools where you bought a belt and where I witnessed a so-called black belt test where half of the participants couldn't do many of their forms. If it's just about the belt and the status of being able to say you're a black belt, then I guess you can go anywhere you can afford to pay for one. I used to be excited that I was moving along so quickly and effortlessly. Then I discovered why. KT

 

[Cryozombie]

Why was my thread moved? I wanted to know what the FMAers consider a Mc Dojo. :disgust:

D@mn those evil Mods.

 

[terryl965]

It's like profanity. I can't define it but I know it when I see it. They tend to have certain things in common.
1) They are more concerned with business and customer service than the art.
If your master doesn't yell at you every once and a while, you may be in a McDojo. Notice that I said MAY, there are nice instructors out there. What i mean to say by this is that often instructors of McDojos are content with you practicing bad technique as opposed to possibly offending you and loosing your business.
2) They are a part of a large conglomerate.
Not always the case, but if your studio is part of a network of many studios within the nation, it MAY be a McDojo.
3) There is alot of emphasis on promotion, but the place of practice doesn't respect its power to award new belts.
I know too many "karate blackbelts" who have no buisiness being a blackbelt. They kept getting promoted on a basis of the time they've put in, not what they've really learned. I hear that some/many dojos charge for promotions. I personally haven't been to one that does, so I don't know how many partake in this. If your studio has alot of pretty colored belts that they make you buy every few months, you may be in a McDojo.

Disclamer: If your studio does any of these, I don't mean to say that it is a McDojo. I am trying to say that this seems to be a trend among what I consider to be a Dojo that is more interested in making money than preserving the art.

[I'm going to add a question to this forum. Has anyone ever practiced at a place that THEY would call a McDojo? If so, please tell us a bit about your experience.]

I have once joined to get additional training for my son's, I heard the instructor was a good student of the Art (Sport side for my boy's) after the first month it was I have a black belt program that will take your son's all the way to black belt, what he did not relize that I was already one, anyway he goes on to say it will be $3000.00 dollars per child I have three, plus the regular $225.00 per month and as a added bonus he would teach them grappling and jujitsu plus weapons. Now mind you we joined for my boy's to get additional training in the sport of Tae Kwon Do not all of this stuff anyway after I said no he said well your boy's are not good enough for the sport circut, anyway we see them from tournament to tournament and my sons just keeps on winning while his students look well you guy's know not to impressive in the judges eye's...That is my experience with a Mcdojo, money motivated looking for the people that don't know any better and pance on them for all they can get out of them false promises....God Bless America

 

[TKD USA]

Wow. Very cool story!

 

[Flatlander]

I have once joined to get additional training for my son's, I heard the instructor was a good student of the Art (Sport side for my boy's) after the first month it was I have a black belt program that will take your son's all the way to black belt, what he did not relize that I was already one, anyway he goes on to say it will be $3000.00 dollars per child I have three, plus the regular $225.00 per month and as a added bonus he would teach them grappling and jujitsu plus weapons. Now mind you we joined for my boy's to get additional training in the sport of Tae Kwon Do not all of this stuff anyway after I said no he said well your boy's are not good enough for the sport circut, anyway we see them from tournament to tournament and my sons just keeps on winning while his students look well you guy's know not to impressive in the judges eye's...That is my experience with a Mcdojo, money motivated looking for the people that don't know any better and pance on them for all they can get out of them false promises....God Bless America

This must be McDojoism in it's extreme. Wow. There should be some governing body which can shut these places down.