MartialTalk and the COVID-19 Pandemic

[dvcochran]

It's not me. It's you. Your first response is to think someone is a LIBERAL and from there everything that follows is based on that concept of what you think LIBERAL means who you think fits it. When you don't agree with something you automatically reduce someone to a POLITICAL DEFINITION of LIBERAL.

This is you "
"So yes, me and others are going to perceive your 'freedom' rhetoric to disclude jails and actions without recourse.
Again; substance to show you line of freedom thinking is rather embellished and liberal. You are on the lunatic fringe with this"

This is me

But you don't read this. You just go straight political and define someone as LIBERAL
And this is point I'm making. You even proved my point by your statement when you bring this statement. "No recourse when someone wrongs"

Spend less time trying put people in to Political Drama character boxes.

So you are embarrassed that you are a liberal? I am confused.

Seriously though, how is saying a statement is rather embellished and liberal have anything to do with politics? You are the one jumping to the political spectrum, taking something out of context and obviously getting your feelings hurt. Weird.

As the old saying goes; "If you cannot take the heat...".

 

[dvcochran]

Current results speak for themselves:

Checking quickly this morning, Taiwan has an infection rate of about .002% and a mortality rate of about 1.1%. That's based on my quick math with rounded numbers, so please feel free to double check my numbers. Similarly, New York State has an infection rate of close to 3% and a mortality rate of almost 6%. So, far less population density, yet three times the infection rate per capita, and six times the morbidity. That's alarming.

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South Dakota has a population of about 885,000 people, living on 77k sq. miles. That's 11.3 square miles per person. Here's what they look like this morning:

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That's an infection rate of about 7.8%. Their morbidity is surprisingly low. I'm not sure if that's good news or not (hopefully it is). I'm not sure they will be able to sustain those low death rates. It doesn't appear so, considering they reported 30 deaths just yesterday.

To clarify for you and @Bruce7 , I was saying Taiwan is quite small in size.

Taiwan is about 3.4 times smaller than New York.
New York is approximately 122,283 sq km, while Taiwan is approximately 35,980 sq km, making Taiwan 29.42% the size of New York.

I made no reference to infection or mortality rates.

 

[dvcochran]

In a poker game, that's not much. Doesn't sound like much... such a small number. However, these percentages, and even fractions of percentages, are exceedingly important when they represent actual lives.

In the USA, we have somewhere in the area of 11.5 million cases with 250k deaths. That's a death rate of just north of 2%, not even considering the number of people who are admitted to the ICU who experience serious symptoms and survive. We're hitting about 170k new cases reported every day, with ICUs filling to capacity, and are approaching 2k deaths per day.

We have a total population of about 330 million people. That leaves, one, two, add a few... over 315 million remaining who could become infected, and as the rate of infection is exponential, we could get there pretty quickly. 2% of 315 million is 6,300,000 people who could die if infected. If a vaccination could reduce the infection rate by 95%, we're talking potential risk for about 285,000,000 people mitigated and reducing the pool of people who could become infected to a literal fraction of the population. And that's how herd immunity comes into play safely.

And for what it's worth, the difference between 1% and .1% in a population as large as in the USA represents a lot of people. I mean .1% of 330 million people is still 3.3 million people.

Quoting published numbers are easy. If only the number were reliable. But run with it if you wish.
I cannot fathom how complex our country has made this and the reasons are sickening. Incentivised (yea, I know it is not a proper word) , weaponized, leveraged; all the nasty descriptors of your choosing but non the less true.
It is relative easy to find death statistics for the years or months prior to 2020. But just try to find gross numbers for 2020, then by month, then by COD. Very, very difficult, closer to impossible. And every source you find has an accuracy disclaimer regarding Covid-19. Just disgusting. Are people dying from pneumonia, flu, even colds, just like every other year? Sure but try to find those stats. Impossible. A lot of dark places I choose not to venture in to.
This thing is not total BS by no stretch but is damn sure has a lot in there.
So go ahead and pile on; I have big shoulders and some of you seriously need to wake up.

 

[dvcochran]

well the uk deaths from the virus reached irs peak last month, but the total deaths in the uk was only eight more than last october, so somethibg is very wrong some where with the figures

It would be nice to find accurate number for 2020 deaths in the US.

 

[JowGaWolf]

sympoms like dieing,

didn't realize that was a symptom. I won't pick on you for "dieing"

 

[JowGaWolf]

So you are embarrassed that you are a liberal? I am confused.

I'm not a liberal. Never have been one. I keep telling you that. but you don't listen and yes you are confused

 

[dvcochran]

I'm not a liberal. Never have been one. I keep telling you that. but you don't listen and yes you are confused

I get that. I understand that from jump. You are the one that took the use of the word 'liberal' so out of context and offensive. I am not at all liberal but I am not offended by someone who rationally is. That just seems harder and harder to find theses days. I just hope some conservatives don't start acting the same way. Get the hint?

 

[Monkey Turned Wolf]

So there seems to be an unnecessary argument going on here, which hopefully my interjection is helpful rather than pointlessly inserting myself.

I think the confusion is misinterpreting what jowga initially said. He was saying that any law takes away freedom. He wasn't making a value statement about that. I think we can all agree it's a good thing we're not free to murder anyone that we want. But that is a freedom we don't have. That opens a whole other can of worms involving freedom to vs. freedom from but too political to discuss on this forum.

I think, dv made the assumption from that that he was saying that lack of freedom is a bad thing, and attributed it to being 'beyond liberal', not realizing jowga wasn't supporting this idea of anarchy and just stating that restrictions do exist in the US. If anything, he seems to be supporting those restrictions in regards to his response to job.

But then jowga saw the liberal thing and assumed dv's response was the result of making an assumption on jowga's values based on the belief that he's liberal.

And yet both of you seem to agree restrictions are needed. And seems to be very off-track from the original point.

 

[jobo]

didn't realize that was a symptom. I won't pick on you for "dieing"

drowning on your own fluid, asphyxiation, is a symptom, no symptoms, no asphyxiation, no death,

 

[JowGaWolf]

So there seems to be an unnecessary argument going on here, which hopefully my interjection is helpful rather than pointlessly inserting myself.

I think the confusion is misinterpreting what jowga initially said. He was saying that any law takes away freedom. He wasn't making a value statement about that. I think we can all agree it's a good thing we're not free to murder anyone that we want. But that is a freedom we don't have. That opens a whole other can of worms involving freedom to vs. freedom from but too political to discuss on this forum.

I think, dv made the assumption from that that he was saying that lack of freedom is a bad thing, and attributed it to being 'beyond liberal', not realizing jowga wasn't supporting this idea of anarchy and just stating that restrictions do exist in the US. If anything, he seems to be supporting those restrictions in regards to his response to job.

But then jowga saw the liberal thing and assumed dv's response was the result of making an assumption on jowga's values based on the belief that he's liberal.

And yet both of you seem to agree restrictions are needed. And seems to be very off-track from the original point.

That's correct

 

[Steve]

So there seems to be an unnecessary argument going on here, which hopefully my interjection is helpful rather than pointlessly inserting myself.

I think the confusion is misinterpreting what jowga initially said. He was saying that any law takes away freedom. He wasn't making a value statement about that. I think we can all agree it's a good thing we're not free to murder anyone that we want. But that is a freedom we don't have. That opens a whole other can of worms involving freedom to vs. freedom from but too political to discuss on this forum.

I think, dv made the assumption from that that he was saying that lack of freedom is a bad thing, and attributed it to being 'beyond liberal', not realizing jowga wasn't supporting this idea of anarchy and just stating that restrictions do exist in the US. If anything, he seems to be supporting those restrictions in regards to his response to job.

But then jowga saw the liberal thing and assumed dv's response was the result of making an assumption on jowga's values based on the belief that he's liberal.

And yet both of you seem to agree restrictions are needed. And seems to be very off-track from the original point.

Extremists can only see two categories of people: those who agree with them and everyone else. It's no surprise to me that when one's view of conservatism is rigid and severe, everyone else will appear to be a liberal. It's all relative. Ronald Reagan was a liberal by today's measure.

 

[Steve]

drowning on your own fluid, asphyxiation, is a symptom, no symptoms, no asphyxiation, no death,

If language matters, that's actually a cause of death, not to be confused with manner of death, which can be natural, accident, suicide, homicide, or undetermined.

You've created a causal relationship in your post, but having a cause/effect relationship doesn't make two things the same. When I eat bananas, I get the rumble tummy every time. Then I fart, and then my family gets upset because it stinks. This is a predictable and reliable cause and effect relationship. Even though this is reliable, the banana doesn't suddenly become the fart, and their reaction to my fart does not become my fart (or a banana), just because it happens every time. The banana and the fart exist independently of the reaction.

 

[Bruce7]

It would be nice to find accurate number for 2020 deaths in the US.

If you do not wish to believe the total number of deaths that is your right.
You believe the numbers are to high and I believe the numbers they are to low.

A number we can agree on is hospitalization.
You can not argue about whether a hospital is full or not.
Use the hospitalization numbers as an indicator as how bad the virus is hurting Americans.

 

[jobo]

If language matters, that's actually a cause of death, not to be confused with manner of death, which can be natural, accident, suicide, homicide, or undetermined.

You've created a causal relationship in your post, but having a cause/effect relationship doesn't make two things the same. When I eat bananas, I get the rumble tummy every time. Then I fart, and then my family gets upset because it stinks. This is a predictable and reliable cause and effect relationship. Even though this is reliable, the banana doesn't suddenly become the fart, and their reaction to my fart does not become my fart (or a banana), just because it happens every time. The banana and the fart exist independently of the reaction.

it depends when you plug into the issue

if you find someone dead of covid then that definitely a symptom of having covid

if you catch them just before death then slow asphyxiation id the main symptom, then they die and death is once again a symptom

nb, the banana does indeed become the fart, at least part of it does, thats where farts originate from, digested food

 

[jobo]

If you do not wish to believe the total number of deaths that is your right.
You believe the numbers are to high and I believe the numbers they are to low.

A number we can agree on is hospitalization.
You can not argue about whether a hospital is full or not.
Use the hospitalization numbers as an indicator as how bad the virus is hurting Americans.

hospital are never full, they can always fit a few more in if they tried, then tend to run out of beds, but buy a few beds and they are not full again

 

[jobo]

Extremists can only see two categories of people: those who agree with them and everyone else. It's no surprise to me that when one's view of conservatism is rigid and severe, everyone else will appear to be a liberal. It's all relative. Ronald Reagan was a liberal by today's measure.

BUT THAT CLASSIFICATION DOES SEEM TO CAPTURE YOU AS WELL

 

[Bruce7]

IMO Texas especially Houston has the best hospitals in the country.
We also have most infections than any other state.
We also have the most recovered from covid.
Our death rate per million people is one of the best.
Had our hospital have not been so good, our number of dead would have been more like New York.

This is why hospitalization rate is a better indicator as to how we are doing.

 

[Steve]

hospital are never full, they can always fit a few more in if they tried, then tend to run out of beds, but buy a few beds and they are not full again

you may find reading about population limits and exponential growth interesting.

 

[jobo]

IMO Texas especially Houston has the best hospitals in the country.
We also have most infections than any other state.
We also have the most recovered from covid.
Our death rate per million people is one of the best.
Had our hospital have not been so good, our number of dead would have been more like New York.

This is why hospitalization rate is a better indicator as to how we are doing.

WELL IF YOUVE HAD THE MOST CASES, YOUR ALSO LIKELY TO HAVE THE MOST RECOVERED

most people recover all on their own

 

[jobo]

you may find reading about population limits and exponential growth interesting.

hospital are deemed full when there are no beds left, they are clearly not full at that point