MartialTalk and the COVID-19 Pandemic

[JowGaWolf]

god you are dim

the pie chart is in white for all the times youve been wrong and blue for if you were correct

here it is again

Now Sir... Calm down. now. I need to get back in your car

and show me your Pie Chart and Data Sir. A blank sheet is the absence of data sir which is why you can't hand me a blank drivers license sir. Now if you can't show me your Pie Chart and data sir. I'm gonna have call some of my boys and you WILL spend time in corner.

 

[Dirty Dog]

ATTENTION ALL USERS:
The insults, name calling, and generally nastiness needs to stop, otherwise people will find themselves on vacation from MT.

Mark A. Cochran
@Dirty Dog
MartialTalk Senior Moderator

 

[drop bear]

freedom has always been temper by rules of society, you have absolute freedom to go and live some where else where the rules suit yoy better, people generaly dont want to move to a third world hell hole, so they give up some freedom for economic advatage/security

thats the nature of the social contract, you allow others to rule, in returm they look after you, sort of

the problem with the covid rules are they are not looking after your economic and security needs. the rules are not at all proportionate to the riskin the amount of freedom they remove.

ive seen no evidence that the various lock down measures have saved even a single life, the best they do is slow down the spread, the same number of people will die, just over a longer time period. so its all a pointless exercise in butt covering

Our results have been good. And we don't have many restrictions now because we don't have the covid issue to warrant it.

Victoria was the worst hit had the most cases, had the most deaths. And had the hardest lockdown.

Now there are no new cases. In Victoria.

Obviously the states that don't have covid. Don't have covid deaths.

 

[jobo]

Our results have been good. And we don't have many restrictions now because we don't have the covid issue to warrant it.

Victoria was the worst hit had the most cases, had the most deaths. And had the hardest lockdown.

Now there are no new cases. In Victoria.
View attachment 23326

Obviously the states that don't have covid. Don't have covid deaths.

if the stare with the hardest lock down, most cases had that a very good indexation that lock downs dont work ?

 

[drop bear]

if the stare with the hardest lock down, most cases had that a very good indexation that lock downs dont work ?

No. Victoria screwed its first lockdown. Publicly and obviously and got smashed. And so had to go in to a second one.

They quarantined people in a hotel with the worlds dodgiest security firm they could find to supervise them.

So acting like Muppets during a lockdown is the deciding factor as to whether lockdowns work.

Victoria hotel quarantine failures 'responsible' for Covid second wave and 768 deaths, inquiry told

There is a whole bunch of talky talk about it in that link but basically casual security guard shirt fillers got employed to do this job and started shagging the quarantinenies and letting them out for bribes.

 

[JowGaWolf]

Our results have been good. And we don't have many restrictions now because we don't have the covid issue to warrant it.

Victoria was the worst hit had the most cases, had the most deaths. And had the hardest lockdown.

Now there are no new cases. In Victoria.
View attachment 23326

Obviously the states that don't have covid. Don't have covid deaths.

That looks impressive. Too bad Victoria didn't get it right the first time.

 

[drop bear]

That looks impressive. Too bad Victoria didn't get it right the first time.

I just read on reddit (so take that with a grain of salt) the longest lockdown in the world.

It was a harsh hard measure and nobody liked it.

A timeline of the restrictions.
Victoria announces Melbourne to return to lockdown – as it happened | Coronavirus | The Guardian

 

[JowGaWolf]

Sweden's Herd Immunity Theory what it is now

What it they thought.

What the plan is now. Sounds like "Herd Immunity is a Bust"

 

[_Simon_]

ive seen no evidence that the various lock down measures have saved even a single life, the best they do is slow down the spread, the same number of people will die, just over a longer time period. so its all a pointless exercise in butt covering

Our state's new daily cases were escalating quite rapidly, and we went into quite a hard lockdown and mandatory masks. Reached a peak of 725 new daily cases and dozens of deaths daily. The last consecutive 23 days we've had zero new cases, and zero deaths. It's almost as though we've wiped out majority of traces of covid in our state as a result.

Many, many potential lives saved. You don't think slowing down the amount of people infected and dying until a vaccine comes makes a difference? The same number of people WON'T die.

If we do it and keep things open safely (which pretty much all industries here are back open, economy will be back and booming), I'd say this would absolutely be the way to go until a vaccine comes.

 

[_Simon_]

What would that evidence look like?

It's okay I've provided some above , have a feeling it will be thoroughly rejected for god knows what reason.

 

[_Simon_]

Our results have been good. And we don't have many restrictions now because we don't have the covid issue to warrant it.

Victoria was the worst hit had the most cases, had the most deaths. And had the hardest lockdown.

Now there are no new cases. In Victoria.
View attachment 23326

Obviously the states that don't have covid. Don't have covid deaths.

Yep, for all the haters of the restrictions over here, us Victorians smashed it! Honestly feels really bizarre not having any new cases for ages..

 

[jobo]

Our state's new daily cases were escalating quite rapidly, and we went into quite a hard lockdown and mandatory masks. Reached a peak of 725 new daily cases and dozens of deaths daily. The last consecutive 23 days we've had zero new cases, and zero deaths. It's almost as though we've wiped out majority of traces of covid in our state as a result.

Many, many potential lives saved. You don't think slowing down the amount of people infected and dying until a vaccine comes makes a difference? The same number of people WON'T die.

If we do it and keep things open safely (which pretty much all industries here are back open, economy will be back and booming), I'd say this would absolutely be the way to go until a vaccine comes.

potential lives,? what does that mean,

how many were actually saved,

that was the question?

 

[_Simon_]

potential lives,? what does that mean,

how many were actually saved,

that was the question?

True, that sounds weird XD. Potential deaths avoided more like it!

Well it's a hypothetical as to how many would be saved, so unanswerable.

You seem to stating that even if we did a lockdown to slow the virus, it would only slow the cases and deaths eventually occurring, that is, that they would die anyway from it, just later.

I'm saying slowing the whole thing down (and potentially even wiping the virus out of the community), inching forward and getting that much closer to the time of getting a vaccine, will mean less cases and deaths in the future (and overall).

 

[jobo]

True, that sounds weird XD. Potential deaths avoided more like it!

Well it's a hypothetical as to how many would be saved, so unanswerable.

You seem to stating that even if we did a lockdown to slow the virus, it would only slow the cases and deaths eventually occurring, that is, that they would die anyway from it, just later.

I'm saying slowing the whole thing down (and potentially even wiping the virus out of the community), inching forward and getting that much closer to the time of getting a vaccine, will mean less cases and deaths in the future (and overall).

well the vacine is a red herring, as ive said several times the goal is to vacinate 3% of the worlds population in months, no one kbows how many months, 6,12 20? it will takes years, possibky a decade or more to vacinate the large proportion of the population requored to say youve eeradicated the deseas4, it took 20 odd years to vqvine the world against small pox and that really was a killer in to the many 100s of milkion.

so inching closer to the vacine may be over optinistic, microning closer is more like it.

in the mean time, they slow it down, you lift the restrictions and it speeds up again.

no lives are being saved, eventually it will have killed all the weak and deaths will stop, that is likely to happen a lot sooner than the vacine
a peophe are seeing is the headline daily death rate, lower that and govenments claim its working, it will just kill the same number a bit slower

 

[_Simon_]

well the vacine is a red herring, as ive said several times the goal is to vacinate 3% of the worlds population in months, no one kbows how many months, 6,12 20? it will takes years, possibky a decade or more to vacinate the large proportion of the population requored to say youve eeradicated the deseas4, it took 20 odd years to vqvine the world against small pox and that really was a killer in to the many 100s of milkion.

so inching closer to the vacine may be over optinistic, microning closer is more like it.

in the mean time, they slow it down, you lift the restrictions and it speeds up again.

no lives are being saved, eventually it will have killed all the weak and deaths will stop, that is likely to happen a lot sooner than the vacine

Meh... dunno. I'm no expert on vaccination protocols etc. But I do agree that it will take some time, but who knows how long. Like I said in another post somewhere, I'm uneasy about the vaccine being potentially rushed before we have more information and how it would go long term.

What I'm saying is, getting things to a stable, safe level and maintaining that (as we learn more about the virus too), a 'Covid-normal' is what we've deemed it, is what I'd say the best bet. Until a sure vaccine comes. Of course there'll be outbreaks, but it seems we're learning more and more about the virus and what we can do to prevent its community transmission.

 

[jobo]

Meh... dunno. I'm no expert on vaccination protocols etc. But I do agree that it will take some time, but who knows how long. Like I said in another post somewhere, I'm uneasy about the vaccine being potentially rushed before we have more information and how it would go long term.

What I'm saying is, getting things to a stable, safe level and maintaining that (as we learn more about the virus too), a 'Covid-normal' is what we've deemed it, is what I'd say the best bet. Until a sure vaccine comes. Of course there'll be outbreaks, but it seems we're learning more and more about the virus and what we can do to prevent its community transmission.

but commubiry is iyr most valuable asset,

its nessersary for our physical and mental well being and our economic survival,

thats what being removed, in return for absolutly nothing but posertive head lines,

vacines only work when you have vacinated 90 odx % of the worlds population, its all about herd immunity not indevidual protection

as ive said before, we have a vacine that claimed to be 90 odd % effective and a disease that has a survival rate of 99%,

even when they have stated vacinating people, the death rate will stay the same, untill the point that have reached saturation level, so 2010 at a guess,

we cant survive a 10 year lock down either mentally or economically,

 

[_Simon_]

but commubiry is iyr most valuable asset,

its nessersary for our physical and mental well being and our economic survival,

thats what being removed, in return for absolutly nothing but posertive head lines,

vacines only work when you have vacinated 90 odx % of the worlds population, its all about herd immunity not indevidual protection

as ive said before, we have a vacine that claimed to be 90 odd % effective and a disease that has a survival rate of 99%,

even when they have stated vacinating people, the death rate will stay the same, untill the point that have reached saturation level, so 2010 at a guess,

we cant survive a 10 year lock down either mentally or economically,

Absolutely. 100%. But using our example, what we did was short term hardship for LONGTERM gain. This isn't a quick fix. We sacrificed a very short period of time (relatively speaking) to get things to stabilise, so NOW we do not have to keep bouncing in and out of lockdowns. THAT was the aim, to avoid the constant in and out of lockdowns. Now we're in a position where we can enjoy community.

And NOW we realise this isn't about the people with the loudest voice. And that it's truly about working together on this. Working through a pandemic is actually bringing us CLOSER together. And that in order to keep everything we've worked so hard for, we have to work together and keep each other safe by following the expertise and health directives.

It takes patience, and surrendering the instant gratification of 'I don't like this lockdown I want it to end now!'. Bigger picture.

 

[jobo]

Absolutely. 100%. But using our example, what we did was short term hardship for LONGTERM gain. This isn't a quick fix. We sacrificed a very short period of time (relatively speaking) to get things to stabilise, so NOW we do not have to keep bouncing in and out of lockdowns. THAT was the aim, to avoid the constant in and out of lockdowns. Now we're in a position where we can enjoy community.

And NOW we realise this isn't about the people with the loudest voice. And that it's truly about working together on this. Working through a pandemic is actually bringing us CLOSER together. And that in order to keep everything we've worked so hard for, we have to work together and keep each other safe by following the expertise and health directives.

It takes patience, and surrendering the instant gratification of 'I don't like this lockdown I want it to end now!'. Bigger picture.

but thatrs my point, there isnt any long term gain, the virus is now endemic, it will return, you live in a very lowly populated country, so things may happen slower

the current estimate in the uk is one in 80 have the virus, thats most of a million people, thats 10, thousands deaths give or take, thats after a 4 month lock down and three weeks into another one, with out the lock down they may have died sooner, but they will soon be dead, so it didnt work in saving their lives

mean while we borrowed 22 billion just in October to try and pay for it all, the chancellor has warned this level of borrowing cant be sustained and it cant, the first victims offfff a government freeze on spending are the old and the weak and the vulnerable, thats the very people who are dieing of covid, the lock down isnt helping them and the government cuts will get them anyway

 

[dvcochran]

I found this site this morning. I am not familiar with it but it seems to do a good job of breaking things down across the globe.
U.S. Death Rate 1950-2020

Looking at the first graph it is interesting how low and flat it is years 2008-2013. Then it has a steady trajectory year to year going forward.

 

[elder999]

Confused About Masks? Here’s What Scientists Know

"The accumulating research may be imperfect, and it’s still evolving, but the takeaway is simple. Right now, masks are necessary to slow the pandemic."

"Among public health experts, there is near-unanimous endorsement of universal mask mandates to shield people from the virus and slow the pandemic.

“The more people who wear a mask, the more the community is protected and therefore the more you individually benefit,” said Dr. John Brooks, chief medical officer of the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention’s Covid-19 response program. “It’s like a herd effect.”"