MartialTalk and the COVID-19 Pandemic

[Steve]

the other problem is two out of the three vacines are live vacines, now live vactines are ok as lobg as you dont have a compremised immune syatem, in which case its more or less guaranteeing you get the disease, there were thousands and thoysabds of people vacibated agaibst polio, that went to to be crippledby the,disease, that they wouldnt otherwise have contracted

now its may seem obvious to state that the people most at risk from covid are those with comprmised immune system who are the very ones who shouldnt be given a live vacine

im not sure this factor will feature heavily, in which vacine is choosen and who gets it

You don't need 100% vaccinated (or otherwise immune) in order to achieve herd immunity. But, really, why are you worried? You're arguing both sides against the middle. On one hand, you're very laissez faire about the virus in general and accusing folks of overreacting to the danger. And now you're arguing against the vaccine because you might get the virus? LOL. You're all over the place, jobo. I recommend you do more reading. I and others have provided links to a lot of information. I think it would really help you understand the situation if you took a little time to check out those links.

 

[jobo]

You don't need 100% vaccinated (or otherwise immune) in order to achieve herd immunity. But, really, why are you worried? You're arguing both sides against the middle. On one hand, you're very laissez faire about the virus in general and accusing folks of overreacting to the danger. And now you're arguing against the vaccine because you might get the virus? LOL. You're all over the place, jobo. I recommend you do more reading. I and others have provided links to a lot of information. I think it would really help you understand the situation if you took a little time to check out those links.

i have checked them and they dont dispure what im saying at all, just no, i doibt the people postibg them have read them or they would know that and stop waisting everybodies time

im unconcended about the virus coz i have a,robust immune system and a very very small chance of beibg seriously ill let alone dead, as have the vast majority

on the larger point the shut down is not stoppibg the virus, thats true of the UK it may be different in semi rural backward places like austialia and norway, as you may soon find out for yoursrlf when you get the lock down you desire and thibgs get worse.

people are clinging to the vacine as it gives them hope there is an end in sight,, it wont happen at all soon, if it happens at all and if they theow caution to the wind and,syart vacinating all in a frantic effort to stave of fancial calapse, they may well find that kills more than not vacinatibg at all

the vultmrable can issolate if they want, there is no escape if they stick it in yoyr arm

im not antivax in anyway, but if you consiser the history of it, there have been some monumental cock ups, im not hopeful this will be different with the scrapping of adequate testing and certification, in fact it looks odds on

 

[Steve]

im unconcended about the virus coz i have a,robust immune system and a very very small chance of beibg seriously ill let alone dead

Excellent, well then I don't think you'll have anything to worry about from the virus. Shouldn't be any problem for you at all.

 

[dvcochran]

I have had a good bit of experience with modified live and killed vaccines in cattle. You have to be very careful to administer live vaccines only when cattle are open and to calves of an appropriate age. And this is harder than it sounds because latency is different animal to animal. I have had cows abort after being given a live vaccine even though they were impregnated well after the stated latency period. Calves have gotten sick after administration. I have had two mutated calves after live vaccinations, something we never had prior to or since.
Killed vaccines are safer and much easier in regards to herd timing. Unless a herd is having a symptomatic issue they are the way to go. Especially since resistance is always a real issue in livestock. If a operator is managing the herds correctly it is safer to treat symptoms as they come. As a rule this makes more financial sense as well.

We have a closed loop on our breeding program and seldom bring livestock in for replacements; in other words we grow our herd from our own breeding lines, changing bulls and AI donors regularly. Keeping heterosis at the peak level is the goal.

It is an individual decision and the debate between modified live and killed viruses is as large and loud as I have ever heard it in livestock industry. A Lot of trial and error has been used to refine what goes into a live virus and administration is key and somewhat delicate.

Again it is a personal decision with the upcoming Covid-19 vaccines. For me personally, I am not going to take medication I do not need. I get the preventative idea but it is Way too early for me to feel comfortable with a realistic trial and error period. And this is not a lack of trust in the pharmaceutical companies per se but there are a Lot of medications that get released after Much more testing and trial only to find there are side effects later. So yes, until there has been a good pool of guinea pigs or I have a personal need I will wait.

 

[Bruce7]

I have had a good bit of experience with modified live and killed vaccines in cattle. You have to be very careful to administer live vaccines only when cattle are open and to calves of an appropriate age. And this is harder than it sounds because latency is different animal to animal. I have had cows abort after being given a live vaccine even though they were impregnated well after the stated latency period. Calves have gotten sick after administration. I have had two mutated calves after live vaccinations, something we never had prior to or since.
Killed vaccines are safer and much easier in regards to herd timing. Unless a herd is having a symptomatic issue they are the way to go. Especially since resistance is always a real issue in livestock. If a operator is managing the herds correctly it is safer to treat symptoms as they come. As a rule this makes more financial sense as well.

We have a closed loop on our breeding program and seldom bring livestock in for replacements; in other words we grow our herd from our own breeding lines, changing bulls and AI donors regularly. Keeping heterosis at the peak level is the goal.

It is an individual decision and the debate between modified live and killed viruses is as large and loud as I have ever heard it in livestock industry. A Lot of trial and error has been used to refine what goes into a live virus and administration is key and somewhat delicate.

Again it is a personal decision with the upcoming Covid-19 vaccines. For me personally, I am not going to take medication I do not need. I get the preventative idea but it is Way too early for me to feel comfortable with a realistic trial and error period. And this is not a lack of trust in the pharmaceutical companies per se but there are a Lot of medications that get released after Much more testing and trial only to find there are side effects later. So yes, until there has been a good pool of guinea pigs or I have a personal need I will wait.

You have a good point that drugs can be as bad as the virus.
I have had the flu once in my life, so the next year I took a flu shot
and became as sick as when I had the flu.

Having said that, the HEP C cure with 84 pills at $1000 , total cost of treatment $90,000.
It was amazing, the only side effect was it made me want to sleep all the time.
After 12 weeks of taking the pills, I was HEP C free and felt like I gain another 10 years.

I believe in our ability kill virus.
I will not take a flu shot, because the flu will not kill me.
My blood type is A, covid likes blood type A .
I will take the vaccine as soon as it comes out.
I want to hug my grandchildren.

 

[Steve]

You have a good point that drugs can be as bad as the virus.
I have had the flu once in my life, so the next year I took a flu shot
and became as sick as when I had the flu.

Having said that, the HEP C cure with 84 pills at $1000 , total cost of treatment $90,000.
It was amazing, the only side effect was it made me want to sleep all the time.
After 12 weeks of taking the pills, I was HEP C free and felt like I gain another 10 years.

I believe in our ability kill virus.
I will not take a flu shot, because the flu will not kill me.
My blood type is A, covid likes blood type A .
I will take the vaccine as soon as it comes out.
I want to hug my grandchildren.

If we have a vaccine that has gone through reliable protocols and is deemed safe, getting vaccinated is simply the right thing to do. Some people are already talking about how they won't take a vaccine at all, or that they will wait until they see whether it 'works' or not. I have nothing but scorn for anyone who sits on the sideline and waits for others to do the right thing, and I just hope that enough folks do the right thing to save these idiots from themselves, or at least keep their stupidity from infecting the rest of the country.

 

[jobo]

Excellent, well then I don't think you'll have anything to worry about from the virus. Shouldn't be any problem for you at all.

well it hasnt been the slightest problem to me, except they keep shutting down all the places i like to waste my day in, thus my social life and pretty soon it will start to efd3ct my financially, as it will two generations om when they are still paying it off

 

[jobo]

If we have a vaccine that has gone through reliable protocols and is deemed safe, getting vaccinated is simply the right thing to do. Some people are already talking about how they won't take a vaccine at all, or that they will wait until they see whether it 'works' or not. I have nothing but scorn for anyone who sits on the sideline and waits for others to do the right thing, and I just hope that enough folks do the right thing to save these idiots from themselves, or at least keep their stupidity from infecting the rest of the country.

i suspect the number of people who will refuse to be test suvjects for an untested vacine will be afair old percentage,

why would people who are in no risk, put themselves in harms way, ,

not to worry, they wont have anywhere near enough to go round, so it doesnt natter if they choose or not, still no vacine

just read the cost of the vacine is thirty dollars a shot, two shots person

times that by 7 billion, and someobe is making a lot of money

 

[drop bear]

well a milkion cases in the uk, which is also apparently a managable number, which is why i queeried what " sustainable "means, it quite clearly different in different places

dont get to cocky as soon as they remove the lock down it will shoot up again, Australia shut its botder very very quickly, it that that keeping the numbers down, we cant go back in time and change that

They have removed the lockdown.

 

[jobo]

They have removed the lockdown.

well give it a,bit if time and the second wave will come, have they opened the borders yet, ? if not your still in lockdown

 

[elder999]

Draconian measures save lives

New Zealand, With Its Covid-19 Outbreak Under Control, Is In Talks With Biden As U.S. Exceeds 12 Million Cases

 

[jobo]

Draconian measures save lives

New Zealand, With Its Covid-19 Outbreak Under Control, Is In Talks With Biden As U.S. Exceeds 12 Million Cases

well ss i ssid above, they shut the borders very early, the uk allowed 20 odd milkion over seas visiters between the 1 case and lock down, , america has pourous borders , north and soulth, and were not at all qquick with a travel ban

its a lot easier to keep it out if your a small iland and a t quickly, than deal with it once its established, i mean nz only has two small citys and a 5 milkion pop, in just about the same space as the uks 70 million, high density it isnt

 

[Steve]

well ss i ssid above, they shut the borders very early, the uk allowed 20 odd milkion over seas visiters between the 1 case and lock down, , america has pourous borders , north and soulth, and were not at all qquick with a travel ban

its a lot easier to keep it out if your a small iland and a t quickly, than deal with it once its established, i mean nz only has two small citys and a 5 milkion pop, in just about the same space as the uks 70 million, high density it isnt

So, then... we can all agree that lock downs save lives. Whew. I'm glad we got that settled.

 

[jobo]

So, then... we can all agree that lock downs save lives. Whew. I'm glad we got that settled.

no i said closing borders very earlystops the virus getting, if you dont do that then anything else is to late and a pointless waste of time and money, as nether your country or mine act quickly, we fall in to the second class

im not even sure, its saved lives to be honest, its saved the lives of nz, but the people they didnt let in, went some where else and infected others, so no actual lives were saved, just a change of location,of deaths, in fact really it was very selfish of them

 

[jobo]

ive read reports that they have recisited stange deaths in Italy and found the virus was ciculating as early as last summer, so it may well hhave been here and yoyr place killing people long before we had a warning to do anything

 

[Steve]

but the people they didnt let in, went some where else and infected others

What if... and stay with me here... what if there was another option? Imagine a world of fantasy and whimsy, where the virus is only contagious for a limited period of time, whether you have symptoms or not. A utopic world where if, during that time when you might be contagious you... I don't know what to call it... avoided people. And what if, everyone did that?

Imagine a world where people are considerate, wear masks, and wash their hands... where not everyone even gets the virus. It's a place of joy and happiness, where people who get the virus have access to healthcare, where people who haven't had the virus can receive a vaccination that is safe and effective, and where it's not a given that if you have the virus, you are just blithely walking around like a COVID zombie infecting as many people as possible.

To live in such a paradise.

 

[jobo]

What if... and stay with me here... what if there was another option? Imagine a world of fantasy and whimsy, where the virus is only contagious for a limited period of time, whether you have symptoms or not. A utopic world where if, during that time when you might be contagious you... I don't know what to call it... avoided people. And what if, everyone did that?

Imagine a world where people are considerate, wear masks, and wash their hands... where not everyone even gets the virus. It's a place of joy and happiness, where people who get the virus have access to healthcare, where people who haven't had the virus can receive a vaccination that is safe and effective, and where it's not a given that if you have the virus, you are just blithely walking around like a COVID zombie infecting as many people as possible.

To live in such a paradise.

 

[Steve]

In other news, the NY Times introduced a new color into their map key to reflect the "new record rates of infection." Come on, people. We can do better than this. Covid in the U.S.: Latest Map and Case Count

 

[JowGaWolf]

Lockdowns and COVID-19 Deaths in Scandinavia by Martin J. Conyon, Lerong He, Steen Thomsen :: SSRN

"We estimate the impact of non-pharmacological interventions (NPIs) on COVID-19 deaths in Scandinavia. We exploit policy variation between Denmark and Norway on the one hand and Sweden on the other. The former deployed relatively more stringent lockdowns, the latter did not. Our difference-in-differences models show that stricter lockdown policies are associated with fewer COVID-19 deaths."

I'm not sure why this is so difficult to grasp for some. We talk about resistance training all the time here. The logic is simple. "if you don't resist then it's easier to get hit." In the case of Covid-19 the question for every person becomes "What am I doing to to reduce the opportunities for infection?" or "What am I doing to prevent the spread?"

If the answer answer is nothing then the it should be clear why it peaks. If the answer is a number of thing done to reduce the opportunity, then we should naturally see a decrease.

 

[JowGaWolf]

In other news, the NY Times introduced a new color into their map key to reflect the "new record rates of infection." Come on, people. We can do better than this. Covid in the U.S.: Latest Map and Case Count

View attachment 23335 View attachment 23336

I'm personally waiting for the color to be Black.