Martial arts shouldn't take years to learn.

[Gerry Seymour]

that's only if you learn them one at a time, you really don't have to spend three months doing upper cuts, before moving on to jabs, so all punches in three months, all kicks in another, you are all ready well on your way.

nb it really doesn't take three months to go from " couldn't bruise an apple" to knocking someone over

For kicks, it can take longer for some folks, but your basic premise is solid.

 

[jobo]

For kicks, it can take longer for some folks, but your basic premise is solid.

yes me for instance, but that,a mobility issue as much as a cns co ordination / motor pattern issue. Some one much younger with reasonable mobility and motor skills,should be,able to pick it up much much quicker.

i see the the issue of getting from point a) to point b) to be the development from a single reasonably exicuted skill, a kick or a punch for instance to a co ordonated flow of movement where you flow seemlessly from one skill to the next .
or in boxing talk,, combinations

and that's where kata,starts to have,a value greater than flow,drills

 

[Flying Crane]

I'm not joking. If you don't train any of those tools, how do you know how to counter it?

To be a good fighter, you need about two kinds of punches that you are good with, the ability to use them in combination, and the will and the willingness to do so, i.e. Raw aggression.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

To be a good fighter, you need about two kinds of punches that you are good with, the ability to use them in combination, and the will and the willingness to do so, i.e. Raw aggression.

For a more rounded approach (of arguable importance), a couple of takedowns are good to have. The importance of takedown defense would be less arguable, IMO.

 

[Fuhrer Drumpf]

Some people enjoy the way. When they (or we) know everything (or just stop progressing for some reason) it is no longer interesting or motivating to go somewhere and train.

Some people enjoy the quick final result. And then, what to do? Moving away loosing the skills learned or keep training only for maintenance?

What you get quickly is not art. It is using the natural strength of a young body and memorising a series of movements.

In some styles, the progress is fast at the beginning but does not go far. In other styles, the progress is slow but never ends. Some styles aim one thing, some styles aim another.

It's posts like this that make understand Bruce Lee's frustration with all the "masters."

 

[Fuhrer Drumpf]

Ah. It sounds to me like you have received poor instruction in kata.

I don't hold that against you, it's not your fault. It is the fault of your instructor. There is a lot of that about, actually, so your situation is not remarkable.

This may require a splinter thread, but if you are actually honestly interested in learning what kata really is, and how to approach kata as a viable training tool, there are some very knowledgeable folks here who can have that discussion.

It's been done a number of times already.

However, if you are not honestly interested in learning something, and intend to clutch desperately at your uneducated beliefs, then don't bother.

You can't accept what I say, so you insist that I must have learned "false kata."

Reality: Kata exists because, once upon a time, martials artists--like most people--were illiterate and needed a way to record concepts. This is the origin of kata. There's nothing magical or "ancient Asian secrety" about it

 

[Fuhrer Drumpf]

Ah. It sounds to me like you have received poor instruction in kata.

I don't hold that against you, it's not your fault. It is the fault of your instructor. There is a lot of that about, actually, so your situation is not remarkable.

This may require a splinter thread, but if you are actually honestly interested in learning what kata really is, and how to approach kata as a viable training tool, there are some very knowledgeable folks here who can have that discussion.

It's been done a number of times already.

However, if you are not honestly interested in learning something, and intend to clutch desperately at your uneducated beliefs, then don't bother.

You can't accept what I say, so you insist that I must have learned "false kata."

Reality: Kata exists because, once upon a time, martials artists--like most people--were illiterate and needed a way to record concepts. This is the origin of kata. There's nothing magical or "ancient Asian secrety" about it

An atheist, a vegan and a crossfitter walked into a bar. I know this because they informed everyone in the bar as they walked through the door.

A Xtian sailed to the New World. I know this because blood was spilled.

 

[jobo]

It's posts like this that make understand Bruce Lee's frustration with all the "masters."

Bruce who?, never heard of him,

 

[Gerry Seymour]

A Xtian sailed to the New World. I know this because blood was spilled.

There's no need for that - has nothing to do with the topic of this thread or this forum.

 

[Hyoho]

You can't accept what I say, so you insist that I must have learned "false kata."

Reality: Kata exists because, once upon a time, martials artists--like most people--were illiterate and needed a way to record concepts. This is the origin of kata. There's nothing magical or "ancient Asian secrety" about it

What on earth are you talking about. To quote a senior Iaido teacher but in application. Kata (型 or 形 literally: form), a Japanese word, are detailed choreographed patterns of movements practiced either solo or in pairs.

Kata are comprised of the set elements of a waza 技 read as わざ. Waza is a tried and tested technique.

We can either break down the waza into kata or make up a kata to practice certain fundamentals. Kata can apply to other practices and is the 'Japanese way' based on improvement rather than inovation. You can teach robot to do 'kata". It has always worked and still does. Kata is why Japan is so successful.

It has no relationship to falseness. It is what it is.

If you want practice an art devoid of feelings be my guest. But its the other elements or what we do in in MA and its culture and philosophy that make it's repetiton interesting. Budo/Kobujutsu is a 'living thing".

 

[Hyoho]

You can't accept what I say, so you insist that I must have learned "false kata."

Reality: Kata exists because, once upon a time, martials artists--like most people--were illiterate and needed a way to record concepts. This is the origin of kata. There's nothing magical or "ancient Asian secrety" about it

What on earth are you talking about? To quote a senior Iaido teacher but in application. Kata (型 or 形 literally: form), a Japanese word, are detailed choreographed patterns of movements practised either solo or in pairs.

Kata are comprised of the set elements of a waza 技 read as わざ. Waza is a tried and tested technique.

We can either break down the waza into kata or make up a kata to practice certain fundamentals. Kata can apply to other practices and is the 'Japanese way' based on improvement rather than innovation. You can teach a robot to do 'kata". It has always worked and still does. Kata is why Japan is so successful.

It has no relationship to falseness. It is what it is.

If you want practice an art devoid of feelings be my guest. But its the other elements or what we do in in MA and its culture and philosophy that make it's repetiton interesting. Budo/Kobujutsu is a 'living thing".

 

[Flying Crane]

For a more rounded approach (of arguable importance), a couple of takedowns are good to have. The importance of takedown defense would be less arguable, IMO.

Sure, and add a couple kicks, it's all icing on the cake. But none of that is strictly necessary

 

[Flying Crane]

For a more rounded approach (of arguable importance), a couple of takedowns are good to have. The importance of takedown defense would be less arguable, IMO.

Sure, and add a couple kicks, it's all icing on the cake. But. One of that is strictly necessary

You can't accept what I say, so you insist that I must have learned "false kata."

Reality: Kata exists because, once upon a time, martials artists--like most people--were illiterate and needed a way to record concepts. This is the origin of kata. There's nothing magical or "ancient Asian secrety" about it

i never said there was anything magic or secret about it. I only say it is a useful training tool.

That you don't understand that, and don't have the training to know how it works, does not change the fact.

 

[jobo]

You can't accept what I say, so you insist that I must have learned "false kata."

Reality: Kata exists because, once upon a time, martials artists--like most people--were illiterate and needed a way to record concepts. This is the origin of kata. There's nothing magical or "ancient Asian secrety" about it


A Xtian sailed to the New World. I know this because blood was spilled.

if they were illiterate, that wouldn't stop them drawing pictures would it?

 

[drop bear]

if they were illiterate, that wouldn't stop them drawing pictures would it?

Wasn't there those monks who could remember everything?

Oral traditions are pretty common. I don't think pictures were as effective.

 

[jobo]

Wasn't there those monks who could remember everything?

Oral traditions are pretty common. I don't think pictures were as effective.

its a,well establish fact that one picture is worth one thousand words, this was,decided after one of the monks got brain damage and a whole kata was lost for ever

 

[Gerry Seymour]

Sure, and add a couple kicks, it's all icing on the cake. But none of that is strictly necessary

I'd argue otherwise. If you can't defend takedowns, your likelihood of succeeding in a fight goes down dramatically if the other guy decides to take you down and is even somewhat athletic (bonus points if he played American football, rugby, or hockey).

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

Oral traditions are pretty common. I don't think pictures were as effective.

Agree! The "oral tradition" for:

- wrist lock is to "raise up the elbow joint while sink down the wrist joint".
- head lock is to "point your elbow joint straight down and put your opponent's head on your chest".
- ...

When you look at a picture, you may not be able to notice it.

 

[jobo]

Agree! The "oral tradition" for:

- wrist lock is to "raise up the elbow joint while sink down the wrist joint".
- head lock is to "point your elbow joint straight down and put your opponent's head on your chest".
- ...

When you look at a picture, you may not be able to notice it.

shouldn't you get glasses or indeed a bigger picture?

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

shouldn't you get glasses or indeed a bigger picture?

Most of the time, a new student won't be able to get the most important information out of a picture.

What's wrong in the following picture?